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Factory Info: Parts with Laser Cut Holes and Potential for Cracks

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RV-8 part list incorrect

Greg, all - a follow up to the question earlier about the RV-8 empennage list seeming to have RV-9 and -14 parts. I also notice some parts (which are in your "high concern"/"REPLACE" category) don't seem to be listed. Here's pre-assembly (uggh) photos of my now-completed horizontal spar, HS-603PP. It shows the spalling indicative of laser cutting, but is not on the list.

At the time the holes appeared to clean up in accordance with section 5, but given the guidance for critical components (and the potential concern of heat hardening vs simple out-of-round holes) it will obviously need to be replaced.

Like others, I'm concerned about the amount of rework on the skins, etc. to do a full replacement of an interior spar and will likely order a new assembly once available. Also, I'm lucky to have good pre-assembly photos of this particular part, but don't have them of all potentially affected components.
 
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Logistics info

Since we know dimpling seems to bring out the worst in poorly lasered holes and we know that Vans must dimple the parts before it can be assembled in a QB kit wouldn’t an issue be caught almost immediately in the Philippines ? (assuming these are lasered in the Philippines). Does anyone know where these are being lasered? Wasn’t Vans going to start producing parts in Brazil ?

After doing some research on the company that builds the parts in the Philippines appears they just build so it’s possible they won’t see a crack from dimpling for at least a month after it is lasered. (Assuming lasered in the US like before where it was punch pressed or possibly they had an inventory of punch pressed parts)
 
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On the QB front: I ordered all my kits (RV-10) 7/15/21, including QB fuse & wings. Wings arrived 4/2/23, fuse arrived 5/1/23. I've done a close inspection of both QB kits and cannot identify any laser cut parts or cracked rivets. Not saying there aren't any laser cut parts, but there are no obvious signs. Supposedly these QB kits were assembled in Brazil. Hope this help those with similar dates.

Stay positive guys, we'll get through this!
 
RV-12 Wing Ribs

Brantel said:
From the factory news update:


Speaking only to the RV-12 kits.....


So at this point I have made Van's aware of the fact that I received wing ribs that do not meet my expectations. I have sent pictures to support and have been told to wait on this formal communication for guidance on what to do next. This guidance seems to exclude the RV-12 so I am left scratching my head on what to do next.
Click to expand...

I hear your pain. You are 4-5 weeks ahead of me in delivery and building. I received wing, fuse, finish kit all in one delivery on June 30. Inventory has sucked up most of my spare time. Since this saga started about same time I was opening crates, I've been sensitive to look closely at laser cut parts.

In the finish kit, the cowl finish plate has one small scorch mark next to one nut plate mounting hole. Low stress part likely not an issue. The wing kit on the other hand has issues in my mind. My spars are all punched as are all the mid ribs. However all the forward ribs are laser cut and I have yet to find one that does not have multiple issues. Besides the scorching hole nicks many have slag "splatter" and at least half have had someone grind on them to clean up whatever. The result is the Alclad is clearly gone and the part will need significant prep time to get to the point where they can be primed, even if holes are deemed "ok".

With all that said my Emp kit, which is now complete, had a number of laser cut parts. I don't remember noting similar problems with any of those pieces. I even went through a second laser cut rudder spar because I botched the first one. Reviewing photos and looking closely, I don't see anything that worries me at this point. Nothing looked(s) anything like these wing ribs. I too ran a reamer through the vast majority of the holes in the emp kit and paid attention to deburring.

FWIW the manufacture date on the wing ribs is 12-21-22 with a QC sticker date of 1-5-23. I received my emp kit on 2-15-23 and suspect most of those pieces were prior to the problematic ones.

I have waited on sending photos to Van's until I get through all the major parts of all 3 sub-kits, but I have every intention to question the ribs. Meanwhile I still have plenty to do and count on Van's to figure this all out. The RV-12 is the least of their problems due to pulled rivets and minimal dimpling but eventually will get addressed I suspect, if nothing more than acceptance that something went amiss in the QC process for some -12 parts.

JJR
 
lr172 said:
Greg,

I am following this only from the sideline with no dog in this fight. However, I noticed the following in your update



I understand your position here and the legal need to continue to carry this position. With that said, there are some unique aspects here as it is NOT a typical Supplier / Manufacturer relationship. Here, the Manufacturer is an amateur and the supplier is the expert, with the manufacturer relying upon the supplier for expertise in countless different areas, including the expertise on determining whether or not the metallurgical qualities of a part are suitable for the design, which also came from the supplier.

It is apparent that you are taking significant steps to address this issue. However, if this ends with "these parts could be bad and it is up to the builder to decide if in fact they are bad," that will creating MANY issues on many fronts for both Vans and it's customers. I am a big fan of your company and hold you in high regard. I mostly am watching this just to see how you handle it, though I do care about my fellow builders and wish to see this resolved for them.

It would seem to me that Vans will need to make more effort to assist builders with completed component to develop a reasonable inspection plan as well as a remediation plan, as some parts can be a challenge to remove. I certainly hope this is in your plans and suspect that it is. However, I am sure it is on the minds of many builders and feel you should speak to your plans in this area even if you have not had a chance to create them yet. I am sure it will calm many nerves.

If you are going to leave the builder to make these go / no go decisions, we are going to need a lot more data. For example, if the part doesn't crack during either dimpling or riveting, is it considered good, or is there still a risk of cracking down the road. How do I know if the upper dimpled skin is cracked UNDER the rivet head and therefore can't be seen without an xray, etc.

Hopefully that quote was just a legal necessity and not a precursor to how Vans will approach the complexity of this issue. I am probably not the only person that will read it this way and it would be beneficial to clarify Van's position on this.

Let us not forget that many builders did question the parts and reached out to Van's technical support for their expert guidance in the decision to trust and use the part with questionable quality and the answer seems to have been "all is good, not to worry." Unfair to now put that back on the builders shoulders saying it is their fault for accepting and using it. From this point forward, with proper notification, I suppose that is fair position.

Larry
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Thank you, thank you, thank you... I could not have said it any better.
 
NAS1097

Freemasm said:
I had wondered the same. 1241a or 1097s even. I can't quantify the affected areas from the pix.
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I can contribute some personal experience here. The elevator stiffeners on my 9 are laser cut and I had an issue with one of the backriveted rivets so I drilled it out. Since at that point the hole was pretty big I slightly upsized it with my #30 reamer and put a NAS1097 in it. Unfortunately that made the dimple crack.

Admittedly this is a sample size of 1 so take this information with a grain of salt.
Many things could have caused this crack.

I think testing would be required to see if larger rivets are a fix.
 
deMan said:
I can contribute some personal experience here. The elevator stiffeners on my 9 are laser cut and I had an issue with one of the backriveted rivets so I drilled it out. Since at that point the hole was pretty big I slightly upsized it with my #30 reamer and put a NAS1097 in it. Unfortunately that made the dimple crack.

Admittedly this is a sample size of 1 so take this information with a grain of salt.
Many things could have caused this crack.

I think testing would be required to see if larger rivets are a fix.
Click to expand...

As you stated, a sample of one; however, reaming in/of itself should not have caused a crack where one didn't exist before. The first thought that comes to mind if that is true, did the laser ops affect the local metal properties/heat treatment?
 
deMan said:
I can contribute some personal experience here. The elevator stiffeners on my 9 are laser cut and I had an issue with one of the backriveted rivets so I drilled it out. Since at that point the hole was pretty big I slightly upsized it with my #30 reamer and put a NAS1097 in it. Unfortunately that made the dimple crack.
Click to expand...

Not surprising. This goes back to my ongoing concern that all of these issues have nothing to do with the poor hole geometry or notch's, but instead the hardening of the metal from the laser cutting operation without tempering. This has been known for many decades in the welding world and the engineers design around. Unfortunately these parts were not likely engineered with margins to deal with the HAZ (heat affected zone), as I am sure everything was designed around the aviation standard, which is punching or other cutting methods that do not bring the metal to a molten state. When you take a metal part that has been hardened and tempered and then take a portion of it back to a molten state, there will be concentric rings around that area of varying states of metallurgic properties that do not match the native part. My suspicion is those companies successfully using laser cutting on AL parts are starting with annealed material and then do the hardening process after the laser cutting operations.
 
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dmattmul said:
Since we know dimpling seems to bring out the worst in poorly lasered holes and we know that Vans must dimple the parts before it can be assembled in a QB kit wouldn’t an issue be caught almost immediately in the Philippines ? (assuming these are lasered in the Philippines). Does anyone know where these are being lasered? Wasn’t Vans going to start producing parts in Brazil ?

After doing some research on the company that builds the parts in the Philippines appears they just build so it’s possible they won’t see a crack from dimpling for at least a month after it is lasered. (Assuming lasered in the US like before where it was punch pressed or possibly they had an inventory of punch pressed parts)
Click to expand...

It will be interesting to see what Van's does with the QB stuff. Given that when builders pointed out flaws, they were told it was fine and to proceed. At this stage, I think we have to assume that the folks in the QB shop were told the same thing.
 
Luckeyone said:
Expanding on the QB portion of this issue. Is there a way for Vans to determine if laser cut parts were used for a specific QB kit? I have serial and batch numbers for the kits. For example my RV-10 fuselage and wing kits were ordered in Jan of 2021. Fuselage delivered in early 2022 with an inspection date of Jan 11, 2022 so it was completed with parts before laser cutting started but my QB wings, ailerons and flaps were delivered later in the year and have inspection dated in Sept/Oct 2022. Could the parts for the wings etc. have been shipped to EXEMPLAR prior to February of 2022? If so no issue.

Greg, if this is possible then proving a list of QB kits using model, serial and batch numbers would make life a lot simpler to identify the need for inspection for this group of builders.
Click to expand...

THIS^

As someone with QB wings being completed in Feb 2023 we need more information about how QB kits are being handled.
 
Yes. This.

lr172 said:
Greg,

I am following this only from the sideline with no dog in this fight. However, I noticed the following in your update



I understand your position here and the legal need to continue to carry this position. With that said, there are some unique aspects here as it is NOT a typical Supplier / Manufacturer relationship. Here, the Manufacturer is an amateur and the supplier is the expert, with the manufacturer relying upon the supplier for expertise in countless different areas, including the expertise on determining whether or not the metallurgical qualities of a part are suitable for the design, which also came from the supplier.

It is apparent that you are taking significant steps to address this issue. However, if this ends with "these parts could be bad and it is up to the builder to decide if in fact they are bad," that will creating MANY issues on many fronts for both Vans and it's customers. I am a big fan of your company and hold you in high regard. I mostly am watching this just to see how you handle it, though I do care about my fellow builders and wish to see this resolved for them.

It would seem to me that Vans will need to make more effort to assist builders with completed component to develop a reasonable inspection plan as well as a remediation plan, as some parts can be a challenge to remove. I certainly hope this is in your plans and suspect that it is. However, I am sure it is on the minds of many builders and feel you should speak to your plans in this area even if you have not had a chance to create them yet. I am sure it will calm many nerves.

If you are going to leave the builder to make these go / no go decisions, we are going to need a lot more data. For example, if the part doesn't crack during either dimpling or riveting, is it considered good, or is there still a risk of cracking down the road. How do I know if the upper dimpled skin is cracked UNDER the rivet head and therefore can't be seen without an xray, etc.

Hopefully that quote was just a legal necessity and not a precursor to how Vans will approach the complexity of this issue. I am probably not the only person that will read it this way and it would be beneficial to clarify Van's position on this.

Let us not forget that many builders did question the parts and reached out to Van's technical support for their expert guidance in the decision to trust and use the part with questionable quality and the answer seems to have been "all is good, not to worry." Unfair to now put that back on the builders shoulders saying it is their fault for accepting and using it. From this point forward, with proper notification, I suppose that is fair position.

Larry
Click to expand...

Nailed it Larry. I too am eagerly watching as I contemplate IF I will buy my next Van's kit as I previously was planning. There is also another elephant about to enter the room, which will be kits/assemblies on the market for resale which are historically gobbled up quickly. This takes a "pre-buy" inspection of a completed airplane and/or parts to a whole new level.
 
Holes

I don't have a critter in the fight. It took me about 15 minutes to determine that the lazer holes were a bad idea, a really terrible, unacceptable idea. The notched holes that Vans said "just file it out" do not meet any industry standard that I have ever heard of.
The INDUSTRY STANDARD FOR SMALL HOLES IS PUNCHED HOLES.
The much larger issue is whether Vans will survive this.
 
Anyone that has ever used a cutting torch knows that you start your cut on the side of the line that is going to be scrap. If you want to cut a circle, you start on the outside of the line.... Looks like the laser program was set to cut circles instead of holes.... This is something that should have been caught on the first inspection of the first part produced. I would hate be the person that programmed this......:eek:

An undercut laser hole reamed to size should be a nice clean hole to dimple. I would not trust a laser cut hole without reaming.
 
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This is why I see no other option than to start over. My Emp and wings are affected and almost complete. Laser cut parts properly dressed and primed with AKZO are virtually impossible to discriminate against a punched part once in the fully assembled state.

Some assemblies I can say with 100% certainty do not contain laser cut parts. Other assemblies I can’t tell for the life of me if they are laser cut or punched. A raw part, straight out of the crate is obviously very easy to identify even with the blueing removed.

What in the world do we doing as builders if the parts in question cannot be determined? I always circle back to the only real solution and potentially one I can’t stomach…and that would be to start over.
 
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I believe it will be true that laser cut parts are not invalid (particularly the ones that are not poorly formed). Vans testing will likely show that if you have no cracks after assembly, you are good to go. But of course we will need to wait and see what they discover after the testing is complete. Don't panic yet :D
 
I agree.
I think the testing will show it’s ok.
Then the QB crowd will be told you can replace if you want to, but at your own risk.
The SB people will be told to replace what you haven’t built yet. If you have built assemblies then you can replace, but again, at your own risk.
If the testing shows it’s not ok, then all bets are off!
 
Heat treating effects

I have heard a lot that it might not be the shape of the hole that is the problem but rather the heat of the laser making the surrounding metal brittle.
Does anyone know how heat treating a part after laser cutting affects this?
A lot of laser cut parts like wing ribs are heat treated after cutting to achieve a T0 temper. Would this heat treating remove any brittleness the laser introduced?

I would expect that after the heat treatment the properties of the part are homogeneous again without anything special happening around the holes.
Does anyone have any insight into this?

Taking heat treated parts off the worry list would be quite nice since for them it’s hardest to tell if they are laser cut or punched.

-Lars
 
I think many builders may take the view that the outcome of the testing is irrelevant, and that the whole incident and the fact that laser cutting has been stopped makes it clear that the parts are not of sufficient quality and they won't have them in their aeroplane.

I have a pile of laser cut wing ribs awaiting preparation, and they will not be going into my aeroplane regardless of the testing results.
 
georgemohr said:
I believe it will be true that laser cut parts are not invalid (particularly the ones that are not poorly formed). Vans testing will likely show that if you have no cracks after assembly, you are good to go. But of course we will need to wait and see what they discover after the testing is complete. Don't panic yet :D
Click to expand...

I tend to agree. When I look at a dimpled mechanical arrangement, I see one part tucked into the other part. With a traditional hole and fastener, the shear load from one panel to the other is limited to the bore of the fastener hole and the fastener itself and therefore requires good strength in the edge of the bore. With a dimpled arrangement, you have a large male part installed into a large female socket and that is what is providing the shear strength and it would seem a good bit stronger than that mentioned above. Now the rivets primary work is in compression (holding one dimple inside of another) and not in shear, like the preceding example. It also means the metal area directly around the hole is no longer a ey part of the shear support. Instead it is the entirety of the dimple surface area.

It would seem to me that cracks propagating from the hole inside of a dimple will have a negligable effect on the strength of the rivet joint, unlike a crack propagating from a non dimpled attachment, which always bad.

Not an ME, so just observations. Expecting that this type of test is what Vans has contracted for and wouldn't be surprised if the answer is a very small to NO impact on structural integrity. I personally would be MUCH more concerned about using the laser cut parts on traditional rivet or screw attachment styles. Just look at all the SBs on cracks. They ALWAYS originate from non dimpled holes.

Maybe one of our ME's can weigh in on the comparison of shear strength in a traditional rivet joint vs a dimpled joint.

Larry
 
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Has anyone had the promised email from Vans yet? If I recall correctly, the original statement said that these would go out last week.

I have emailed with my list of affected parts requesting replacement and was told "wait" in a way that suggests to me I achieved nothing by sending it.

Commercially painful it may be, but I would hope that all production of previously-affected parts would go towards replacements until all requested replacements are complete before any production goes towards new kits.
 
GrahamF said:
I think many builders may take the view that the outcome of the testing is irrelevant, and that the whole incident and the fact that laser cutting has been stopped makes it clear that the parts are not of sufficient quality and they won't have them in their aeroplane.

I have a pile of laser cut wing ribs awaiting preparation, and they will not be going into my aeroplane regardless of the testing results.
Click to expand...

I think you’re right Graham. This “testing” was supposedly already done and concluded these new laser cut parts to be a good idea. Only way I will trust the results of further testing is if it is NOT conducted by Vans, and I get to see all the resultant paperwork for my own professional to evaluate.

Needless to say, any laser cut part that is not already part of a completed assembly will certainly not be going into my airplane, regardless of the test results.
 
Hi Graham,

We are working to send the email today. We need to make sure the email gets delivered to all recipients, and the number of identical emails is significant enough that we can't just send them all at once without risk of getting spam blocked - that would be bad in the big picture in terms of our ability to communicate the next time. But we are working on it today and it will go out.

If you've emailed us already, we have your email. Once we have the plan and ability to provide replacement parts you'll hear from us. It's likely that we will ask you to submit your list via a standardized web form sometime in the next few weeks to help standardize the way we are collecting information about replacement part requests, but we do have your email.

Our testing program is ongoing. That testing is being conducted both by our engineers at Van's and at the third-party testing partner company we have contracted with, in a manner that ensures the tests are redundant and can serve to validate each others' results.

We know this is frustrating and that people are waiting for more information. We can't share information that is not yet complete while also being accurate in what we communicate. While it's tempting to draw conclusions and implications from what we have shared so far (or from what we've not yet been able to share due to pending information), please be aware it will take some more time to complete the testing we are performing to produce the answers we need.

We will also be publishing a revision of the affected parts list later today to correct an error where the parts on one kit list included parts that are not actually part of that kit (as reported here on the thread), and to add a couple of part numbers that were not included in the initial revision (also as reported here). That document will be updated this evening.

Thank you.


GrahamF said:
Has anyone had the promised email from Vans yet? If I recall correctly, the original statement said that these would go out last week.

I have emailed with my list of affected parts requesting replacement and was told "wait" in a way that suggests to me I achieved nothing by sending it.

Commercially painful it may be, but I would hope that all production of previously-affected parts would go towards replacements until all requested replacements are complete before any production goes towards new kits.
Click to expand...
 
Greg,

There needs to be some more guidance on QB kits. The statement that these have been inspected at Vans does not square up with some of the other information. These are all good since they were inspected ? Just the spars containing pieces will be replaced ?
 
maxmirot said:
Greg,

There needs to be some more guidance on QB kits. The statement that these have been inspected at Vans does not square up with some of the other information. These are all good since they were inspected ? Just the spars containing pieces will be replaced ?
Click to expand...

100%. I’m far less concerned about submitting replacement requests for affected uninstalled parts on my shelf than I am about the status and resolution for the $20k QB fuselage canoe in my garage that was delivered 3 weeks ago. I think the QB folks would feel much better to hear what the thinking and plans are for these situations, even if the way forward is not completely known yet.

Also, are the QB kit deliveries being paused at this point? I know I certainly wish that I would have been made aware of this situation and given the opportunity to accept a delay in shipment of the kit rather than find out about this after it was trucked across the country and delivered.

Would very much appreciate any update that can be provided on this aspect.
 
For some quickbuild info.. I've been told that for QB kits not yet sent to the builders for assembly these will not include any laser cut parts. For QB kits currently in assembly though, I'm not sure. I'm hopeful that they'd ship a container or two of replacement parts - certainly I think they'd almost have to do this to replace the "must replace" parts like spars. Hopefully we'll get some official commentary on QB kits though soon.
 
RV14 Wing kit (slow build) A-710 stiffeners

I don't see the A-710 Stiffeners in the list for the RV14 wing. The ones I have look to be laser cut. Can anyone corroborate that?
 
Let's bear with the Van's Mothership here. Yes, some builders are going to be impacted by all this and need TLC at this point. But what an existential nightmare for the Van's team! This is a gut punch that I'm sure has taken a while to sink in. In the end, their reputation says they'll do the right thing, for all involved.

For what it's worth, at this point I'm thankful that I took hundreds of close up photos of completed assemblies during build (with dedicated camera) that allow some assessment of cracking that may have occurred when looking at the shop sides of rivets. Not a 100% guarantee, but I can't detect any cracking on parts that I received without the blue vinyl. Of course, I may simply have not been supplied any parts with laser holes, but at least it's some consolation. I did notice that as I proceeded, I got a little lazier with the photos (fewer of them) but I did take enough of them to convince me that my fuselage parts were, for the most part, vinyl coated.

Take lots of detailed pictures as you build! Great for documentation and airworthiness certificate.

Now, if only I could find a hangar:)
 
Greg,
Would it be possible for Van's to supply the laser parts list in excel format, or at least add a couple columns to the pdf to check off whether our parts are laser cut or punched? Excel would make it easier to sort and verify.
Thanks!
Bob Kartman
 
After screening my Emp kit for laser cut parts, I'm thinking of adding parts traceability to either my build log or to my master set of plans. Nothing very sophisticated, maybe a photo of the part label which appears to include Van's fabrication date (close enough for my purposes), or just taping the label into my master plans in the pertinent subassembly section.
I work in the space industry where parts traceability is sacred, so incorporating this into my build process will be second nature.
I also have a laser cutting and engraving side biz for non metallic parts and having simple part traceability (date and laser code) has simplified troubleshooting on the extremely rare occasions when I've had non-conforming parts.
 
The list of affected parts includes dates as late as 7/7/2023 (for -7 and -9 fuselage kit parts), which is interesting considering this official thread started on 7/4. Did Van's keep shipping affected parts after starting this thread, or should that be 2022, or...?
 
noahhl said:
The list of affected parts includes dates as late as 7/7/2023 (for -7 and -9 fuselage kit parts), which is interesting considering this official thread started on 7/4. Did Van's keep shipping affected parts after starting this thread, or should that be 2022, or...?
Click to expand...

I’ll need to review that and the team will update as needed. The dates should not read as you described, has to be an date error I think. In meetings this afternoon but we will review later today and update.
 
Well, the email is out but tells us precisely nothing new about our particular situation - it just says "You are exposed". I note also that the number of red parts has increased.

I ask Greg two questions:

1. Where a customer has a red part (or potential red part, how can they be sure?) buried deep within a completed assembly, will Van’s supply a complete new assembly rapidly and without fuss? If I was really playing hardball here, I'd be asking how Van’s intends to compensate customers for their time and materials costs related to the rework of the assembly, and perhaps suggesting an option of refunding a customer's entire build spend if that was the preferred resolution.

2. Does Van’s actually have any record of who got laser-cut parts and who didn't? I'd (perhaps naiively) expected an email listing the parts in my specific kits that are affected. I am essentially left trying to remember what I pulled blue vinyl off....
 
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For those waiting for the email, if you already know you have laser-cut parts (even if you don't know which ones yet) and have been following this thread and reading the links posted, you already know everything the email says. Cheers!
 
I just completed my rudder today before reading this, and I am gutted about the thought that I may have to essentially rebuild the entire VS, as well as likely wreck one or more rudder skins trying to get the spar out. Replacing the spars alone isn't going to fix the problem, because the other parts in the assembly will likely be damaged when trying to tear down the assembly to get at the compromised parts, at which point it seems like it's probably safer overall to just rebuild the entire assemblies. I'll wait for Van's guidance and proposed final remedy, but I'm going to be on pins and needles while waiting.
 
I ordered all my RV-14 QB kits back in March. The first kit - tail and emmpanage, - are scheduled to arrive late this month or early August.

An earlier news release from Vans said it was halting all shipment of kits that contain laser but parts but just a few minutes ago I received an email from Vans that was sent out "to those who received a kit which may include one or more laser cut parts." The email also states, "Crated kits that were packed prior to the manufacturing change that are already at shipping warehouse facilities, etc. may contain laser-cut parts, and we will work with customers who receive those parts." I'm guessing that is why I received the email...my kits have been packed and crated BUT I have not been notified and have not paid the remaining balance on any kit. So my question is, will Vans be shipping out kits with laser cut parts or not? Surely they don't ship until a customer pays in full. And, of course, if they notify my kit is ready to ship I won't pay until I'm assured there are no laser-cut parts.

Is anyone else in this situation? Any further thoughts or comments?
 
mstrauss said:
I don't see the A-710 Stiffeners in the list for the RV14 wing. The ones I have look to be laser cut. Can anyone corroborate that?
Click to expand...

I have had the same question and have not seen an answer yet or have I seen it posted to the revision.
 
Confusing (Redundant) Parts Numbers

FYI, there are some confusing redundancies in the list for the 14 wings. It looks like there were some updated parts which changed numbers slightly, and both are in the list. For example:

W-1009-L -> W-1009-L-3
W-1009-R -> W-1009-L-3
W-1010-L -> W-1010-L-1
W-1010-R -> W-1010R-1

Mike
 
rdt7 said:
I ordered all my RV-14 QB kits back in March. The first kit - tail and emmpanage, - are scheduled to arrive late this month or early August.

An earlier news release from Vans said it was halting all shipment of kits that contain laser but parts but just a few minutes ago I received an email from Vans that was sent out "to those who received a kit which may include one or more laser cut parts." The email also states, "Crated kits that were packed prior to the manufacturing change that are already at shipping warehouse facilities, etc. may contain laser-cut parts, and we will work with customers who receive those parts." I'm guessing that is why I received the email...my kits have been packed and crated BUT I have not been notified and have not paid the remaining balance on any kit. So my question is, will Vans be shipping out kits with laser cut parts or not? Surely they don't ship until a customer pays in full. And, of course, if they notify my kit is ready to ship I won't pay until I'm assured there are no laser-cut parts.

Is anyone else in this situation? Any further thoughts or comments?
Click to expand...


I'm in the exact same boat. Not sure what to think?
 
My kits (tail and wings) are still showing on the tracker as “Parts being Produced” and haven’t been crated, and I got the email? So either they are sending it to everyone or are intending to ship me laser cut parts? I wouldn’t have expected to get laser cut parts at this point, and that has me concerned and contemplating cancelling until this is sorted out.
 
pilotlanham said:
My kits (tail and wings) are still showing on the tracker as “Parts being Produced” and haven’t been crated, and I got the email? So either they are sending it to everyone or are intending to ship me laser cut parts? I wouldn’t have expected to get laser cut parts at this point, and that has me concerned and contemplating cancelling until this is sorted out.
Click to expand...

Sorry for this. If your kits have not yet been crated and shipped, they will not contain laser-cut parts. We will email anyone who received the email, whose kits have not shipped, to clarify.
 
mstrauss said:
FYI, there are some confusing redundancies in the list for the 14 wings. It looks like there were some updated parts which changed numbers slightly, and both are in the list. For example:

W-1009-L -> W-1009-L-3
W-1009-R -> W-1009-L-3
W-1010-L -> W-1010-L-1
W-1010-R -> W-1010R-1

Mike
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Parts suffixed with a "dash number" indicate there was a revision of the same part. We make changes at times to parts for a variety of reasons.
 
tahoebob said:
Greg,
Would it be possible for Van's to supply the laser parts list in excel format, or at least add a couple columns to the pdf to check off whether our parts are laser cut or punched? Excel would make it easier to sort and verify.
Thanks!
Bob Kartman
Click to expand...

Will take a look at that.
 
greghughespdx said:
Sorry for this. If your kits have not yet been crated and shipped, they will not contain laser-cut parts. We will email anyone who received the email, whose kits have not shipped, to clarify.
Click to expand...

Greg, I have a QB Fuse and QB wings and a finish kit with a crating date currently showing Aug 26 2023 - Sep 11 2023. I am prepared to do my happy dance but want to confirm that QB kits are included in your statement above.

To me, a QB kit is a kit but want to make sure that is correct.
 
Tail, wing, and fuse parts only?

Greg,

I'm building a -14A.

I see the Revision 2 July 15 2023 affected parts list contains only tail, wing, and fuse parts.

I received my empennage and wing kits before January, 2022, so I think I'm OK there, but I was a little nervous thinking about some of the wing ribs that did not have blue vinyl on them when they arrived. I think they were all tank ribs, but I'm not sure. I received my QB Fuse last summer, so it's probably OK. It was made in the Philippines.

I received my Finishing Kit in several shipments, due to back-ordered parts, starting with the large crate in January, 2023. My question is, are any finishing kit components affected, and not included in the list yet? I've looked at most of my non-blue-vinyl parts, and as far as I can tell, they're punched, not laser cut.

Thanks!
Update: I think I just found a couple of laser cut parts from my Finishing Kit. They're the C-607-1 canopy latch handle and C-609-1 canopy latch.

view
 
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I think we need to wait for the testing to be completed before we can make statements related to the integrity of laser cut parts.
 
Jonnyb said:
I think we need to wait for the testing to be completed before we can make statements related to the integrity of laser cut parts.
Click to expand...

Sounds like enough people have reported cracks caused by dimpling that there will always be some doubt. Unless you inspected every dimple with magnification.
 
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