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How to heat a cold hangar?

ve0kog said:
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i think an infrared propane heater others mentioned would be a better option since it delivers energy to where it needs to be instead of brute forcing the entire hangar space.
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I use two two burner propane heaters. They heat the hangar quickly. I keep one each side away from the airplane. Zero CO so far.

I also use a Mr Heater in my shop. Zero CO for 12+ years. I replaced the detector because I thought it was faulty.

DynaGlo Kerosene in the house when it's crazy cold. Zero CO. Yes. 1-K kerosene is not cheap. Wally is the cheapest. Neighbor uses gas station Kerosene and seems happy with it.
 
My old rented hangar was cold, dark and drafty so I used a 10 x 10 x 10 popup canopy wrapped in thick plastic sheet. I heated the enclosure with 2 electric baseboard heaters ($77 at Lowes), a 150w light bulb hanging from above and a halogen work light in one corner. The thermometer read 65*F after 30 minutes. That lashup got me through 3 northern Utah winters.
With an airplane sticking thru one wall, a workbench and me, there wasn't much room left over. This setup was ideal for subassemby construction, cowl work, wiring, baffle fitting, etc. Save the wing construction, empennage fitting, and other big stuff for the warmer months.
 
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High efficiency propane forced air home furnace hooked up to a 400lb propane tank outside the hangar. Furnace is suspended from the ceiling and intake and exhaust piped to the outside. Heat duct with vents runs from the furnace across the hangar. Clean, safe and efficient heating and no wasted floor space. The hangar is insulated so only 1-2 fill ups required depending on the winter while running the furnace 4 hrs most days.
 
RV7 To Go said:
High efficiency propane forced air home furnace hooked up to a 400lb propane tank outside the hangar. Furnace is suspended from the ceiling and intake and exhaust piped to the outside. Heat duct with vents runs from the furnace across the hangar. Clean, safe and efficient heating and no wasted floor space. The hangar is insulated so only 1-2 fill ups required depending on the winter while running the furnace 4 hrs most days.
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I use that exact scenario in my home garage, workshop, and storage garage (all R-19 insulated), except it's natural gas. Installed by professionals for gas hookup and code compliance. Deluxe. Biggest drawback is messy floor in home garage from snow/grime melt off vehicles and the fact that I have 3 gas meters. Pressure washer gets a workout in the winter.
 
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wirejock said:
Are we in analysis paralysis here. Basically it sounds like nothing can be used to heat a hangar without starting a nuclear holocaust.
Driving along any row of hangars on a warm day, I see all manner of heating devices in every hangar from infrared, natural gas, torpedo, propane & kerosene. I assume they get used when it gets cold. Doors are closed. Any one of them would ignite fumes. How the heck do FBOs heat. It reeks in most FBO hangars. So back to the OP's question.
How to safely heat a hangar?
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I use a torpedo heater, and just keep monitoring the redness of my fingernail beds, turn if off when I get dizzy or a headache :D
 
Would be really nice to have your own hangar. Unfortunately, for those of us renting a t hangar, a lot of these options are not viable.

I use a propane torpedo heater…a far cry from the 80x100 heated, air conditioned, epoxy floor corporate hangar that I was in previously…by myself. 😢
 
rocketman1988 said:
Would be really nice to have your own hangar. Unfortunately, for those of us renting a t hangar, a lot of these options are not viable.

I use a propane torpedo heater…a far cry from the 80x100 heated, air conditioned, epoxy floor corporate hangar that I was in previously…by myself. 😢
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Torpedo heaters are great heaters and I use them frequently in my unheated pole shed, but they come with many dangers and downsides, and definitely are no-go with our airport administration and with the fire marshall, as I found out. Propane is less toxic than kerosene K-1 but the fire risk is the same.
 
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MacCool said:
Torpedo heaters are great heaters and I use them frequently in my unheated pole shed, but they come with many dangers and downsides, and definitely are no-go with our airport administration and with the fire marshall, as I found out. Propane is less toxic than kerosene K-1 but the fire risk is the same.
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Then I guess I am lucky that my airport management is a bit more realistic when it comes to providing temporary heat in my (and everyone else's) T hangar. Granted, it only runs when I am there and actively working on something.
 
rocketman1988 said:
Then I guess I am lucky that my airport management is a bit more realistic when it comes to providing temporary heat in my (and everyone else's) T hangar. Granted, it only runs when I am there and actively working on something.
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I'm not sure that "lucky" or "realistic" are the right words, but it's likely true that the policy on the use of open flame from an unvented burner 18 inches off the floor in a closed airplane hangar varies from airport to airport.
 
MacCool said:
I'm not sure that "lucky" or "realistic" are the right words, but it's likely true that the policy on the use of open flame from an unvented burner 18 inches off the floor in a closed airplane hangar varies from airport to airport.
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Then I guess you'd probably have a problem with the local AMT school firing up their APU in the hangar, too...LOL

Seriously, It comes down to common sense; you are present, it isn't pointed at anything flammable, and you don't do things like drain fuel or refuel while it is operating. It's not that complicated.
 
MacCool said:
I'm not sure that "lucky" or "realistic" are the right words, but it's likely true that the policy on the use of open flame from an unvented burner 18 inches off the floor in a closed airplane hangar varies from airport to airport.
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My furnace has an open flame 18” off the ground in my closed house. Yes, the exhaust is vented to prevent CO build up, but still a huge open flame. Don’t see how that is a lower fire risk than a torpedo heater. Many people install similar furnaces in their garage with cars housing gasoline just like our planes.
 
rocketman1988 said:
Then I guess you'd probably have a problem with the local AMT school firing up their APU in the hangar, too...LOL

Seriously, It comes down to common sense; you are present, it isn't pointed at anything flammable, and you don't do things like drain fuel or refuel while it is operating. It's not that complicated.
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To be honest, I don’t have a problem with any hangar-heating scheme that takes place in an airport other than my own.

1766925897705.jpeg

😁
 
I used a large Sunfire diesel fired radiant heater in my 40x60 hanger in pretty cold Nebraska for the past 9 years. As mentioned by others, common sense is required, but they can provide a lot of heat in a hurry. Although my hangar is insulated and pretty tight, I never had a CO problem, 3-5 on meter. Worst part is noise, they aren’t quiet. I finally sprung for a regular high efficiency LP furnace and A/C this past year but still kick this on for a bit if in a hurry.
sunfireheaters.com

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Being in northern MN a heater in the hangar is required. Having used several different types, my go-to is the old torpedo/bullet heater. My hangar is a T-hangar in town and being not very air tight, I have never had an air quality issue. Noisy as heck though.
I have been working in the hangar at -20 to -30 temps. I still have to wear an insulated cover-all, but I'm comforatable.

As a bit of humor, a few years ago, I was in the hangar all day during extreme cold weather. I was packing up airplane parts for a guy to ship them. The heater ran all day until it was out of fuel. I stayed in the hangar working until I wasn't able to tolerate the cold. Well....When I was going to head back home, I didn't realize that running the heater all day had caused the snow on the roof to melt and slide off...right in front of the door!!! It was brutally cold, -20+ and windy. Needless to say, the snow/ice had frozen solid making it nearly impossible to get the door open. I was essentailly blocked in!! A whole lot of kicking the door finally allowed me to get the door open enough to squeeze through. Luckily had a shovel along to move the frozen pile away from the door. Lesson learned!!
 
In-floor heating is very nice. Obviously not an option as a retrofit, but for some reason our rented airport T hangar has it and it’s a game changer for Minnesota. Been in plenty of hangars without but never want to go back (my garage isn’t even heated). It really expands the usefulness of a hangar in the wintertime—if I was ever in a position to build my own hangar, I would definitely prioritize it.
 
WWhunter said:
Being in northern MN a heater in the hangar is required. Having used several different types, my go-to is the old torpedo/bullet heater. My hangar is a T-hangar in town and being not very air tight, I have never had an air quality issue. Noisy as heck though.
I have been working in the hangar at -20 to -30 temps. I still have to wear an insulated cover-all, but I'm comforatable.

As a bit of humor, a few years ago, I was in the hangar all day during extreme cold weather. I was packing up airplane parts for a guy to ship them. The heater ran all day until it was out of fuel. I stayed in the hangar working until I wasn't able to tolerate the cold. Well....When I was going to head back home, I didn't realize that running the heater all day had caused the snow on the roof to melt and slide off...right in front of the door!!! It was brutally cold, -20+ and windy. Needless to say, the snow/ice had frozen solid making it nearly impossible to get the door open. I was essentailly blocked in!! A whole lot of kicking the door finally allowed me to get the door open enough to squeeze through. Luckily had a shovel along to move the frozen pile away from the door. Lesson learned!!
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I had the same frozen-door experience back when I was using a bullet heater in my hangar. It was what got me on "the list" with airport administration 😁. An ice-frozen door isn't a rare experience here with spring snow melt and they have a protocol for busting doors free using a Bobcat with forks. That experience was for a big avionics project. My needs are quite a bit simpler now and easily met by a propane patio heater. That still doesn't meet NFPA 409 or IBC 412 (basis for Minnesota fire codes) but the local fire marshall hasn't registered a squawk about it yet and I believe that it's safer than my roaring salamander belching flames 6 feet out the business end 🍿. Unvented ignition heaters at ground level are illegal in Minnesota.
 
MacCool said:
I had the same frozen-door experience back when I was using a bullet heater in my hangar. It was what got me on "the list" with airport administration 😁. An ice-frozen door isn't a rare experience here with spring snow melt and they have a protocol for busting doors free using a Bobcat with forks. That experience was for a big avionics project. My needs are quite a bit simpler now and easily met by a propane patio heater. That still doesn't meet NFPA 409 or IBC 412 (basis for Minnesota fire codes) but the local fire marshall hasn't registered a squawk about it yet and I believe that it's safer than my roaring salamander belching flames 6 feet out the business end 🍿. Unvented ignition heaters at ground level are illegal in Minnesota.
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If you have 6 foot flames belching from the business end of a salamander heater, there is something wrong with it!
 
rocketman1988 said:
If you have 6 foot flames belching from the business end of a salamander heater, there is something wrong with it!
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LOL! Yes, it happens when you grap #2 fuel instead of #1 of Kersosene! They'll blow out a flame for a milisecond with the wrong fuel. It also gums up the impellor unit requiring a disassembly and cleaning. Ask me how I know!
 
benjaman said:
In-floor heating is very nice. Obviously not an option as a retrofit, but for some reason our rented airport T hangar has it and it’s a game changer for Minnesota. Been in plenty of hangars without but never want to go back (my garage isn’t even heated). It really expands the usefulness of a hangar in the wintertime—if I was ever in a position to build my own hangar, I would definitely prioritize it.
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If you go hydronic, make sure it's designed by a Heating Engineer and not a plumber. We have hydronic in our house. Costs a fortune to maintain. A full flush and recharge with antifreeze cost us $3K last time. The "Master Plumber" incorrectly installed a gasket on a pump and we lost most of that. Needless to say I was furious. It keeps the house warm down to about 30 outside. We go below 30 almost every night. Below that, it won't keep up and our beautiful mountain home has to be augmented. Fireplace for romantic nights. Kerosene for warming the house up in the morning. Milkhouse heaters on Alexa switches if we leave and temps drop. The upstairs bedroom circuit is the only circuit that keeps up. One upside is our pipes won't freeze. Plumbing lines run adjacent to heating lines.
Someday we will have an engineer look it over and suggest improvements.
 
wirejock said:
Someday we will have an engineer look it over and suggest improvements.
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I think this is a very good idea. Where I live most buildings and houses have hydronic floor heating, and if you turned them on full, you'd cook. I've never seen one that can't keep up, but then again, it's not that cold here - typically -10c is the lowest we'll see in the mountains, and freezing on the plains.
 
I have a VEVOR Kerosene (diesel, Jet A) heater where the combustion exhaust GOES OUTSIDE. The big Kerosene / diesel heaters that look and sound kike a jet engine produce combustion products you breath. Do not recommend.

In my two car attached home garage, which is insulated it in general is 15F or warmer than outside with no heat. The heated area above the garage (bonus room) and back wall (part of house), plus slab, with insulated metal garage door keeps it warmer than outside. The Vevor heater can get garage from say 50F to 60 F in an 1 to 1.5 hours. It will get it warmer but at 62F I shut it off. That is comfortable.

A hanger has more volume. If hanger is also uninsulated and outside temps are low 30's or 20's not sure how much you can get the hanger up to with of the small VEVOR diesel heaters. They do make bigger ones or you can get more than one.
 
Two propane patio heaters work for me. One on either side of the airplane about 6' away when I have the cowl off. Very quiet and cheap/convenient to run. I have 4) 5 gal bottles so can switch them easily. Makes it worthwhile to go to town and fill all four bottles at once. With the flame set about mid way, radiant heat works good. The flame is up high and way above height of any combustables. Only runs when I'm there, of course.
 
if you got it flaunt it i guess but a heated slab is a real waste of fuel. think of all those tons of concrete you are heating . and usually with a couple inches of foam insulation under it, not much insulation. if i was going to heat a hangar it would be with suspended furnaces and ceiling fans. in a business i used to work at the in floor heat was a real winner with the mechanics. each night 2 semi tractor-trailers would be pulled in for the night. they were not even dripping in the morning. fuel was so cheap then. i remember the brick office, built in about 1971 didnt even have insulation between the drywall and the brick.
 
rocketman1988 said:
If you have 6 foot flames belching from the business end of a salamander heater, there is something wrong with it!
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I’ve made it happen with some visqueen plastic thrown across the the intake end. I was helping a coworker warm up faster so he’d get back to work. 🤣🤣🤣
 
MacCool said:
I agree....infra red heaters heat the skin of the airplane, little or no effect on fuel contained inside or the air around it. Because it doesn't heat the air, infra red is pretty much only good for people or objects within its radiation field. The source of energy that generates the infra red is another matter and that's the component that a fire marshal is likely going to have an opinion on.
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Nope
The fuel venting from the warmed skin is what irritates fire marshals.
Read NFPA 409
This applies to FUELED airplanes
No gas in wing, you're in compliance
Gas in wing, your not
Pretty simple really
Violation can void a ground lease, by the way.
 
Electric Oil Filled Radiant Heater

I didn't see these mentioned.
If all applicable precautions for sparks and aircraft fuel venting are taken, it seems these might be a viable way to go.

They don't heat a hangar, but their thermal mass, can help in a more confined (tented) area, or cockpit.

I've used them elsewhere in the past, plugged a pair of them in on high, and once they got up to temperature, disconnected one and carried it to where I wanted the heat. Swapped them out regularly. Mine had 750W, and 1500W settings.

In the summer, you can get them lightly used at nearly every garage sale. Even new, then can be very reasonable.

As always, your mileage may vary.
 
ve0kog said:
i have a 60000 btu kerosene bullet heater. while it works, it really gulps fuel (kerosene is expensive!) and heats up a volume of air which raises quickly while the ground level stays cold. i may be sweating while standing on the wing and chilly at the floor level. it's also noisy (airpods pro help). on the plus side if properly adjusted it creates zero PPM carbon monoxide and the kerosine odor is tolerable.

i think an infrared propane heater others mentioned would be a better option since it delivers energy to where it needs to be instead of brute forcing the entire hangar space.
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I use a kerosene heater when it gets really cold in the hangar, but I just use Jet A instead of kerosene. The line guys fill my 1 gallon kerosene container when they sump their Jet A tanks. My CO detector in the airplane never reacts, even though it freaks out when the fuel truck comes.
 
MED said:
I use a kerosene heater when it gets really cold in the hangar, but I just use Jet A instead of kerosene. The line guys fill my 1 gallon kerosene container when they sump their Jet A tanks. My CO detector in the airplane never reacts, even though it freaks out when the fuel truck comes.
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Jet A is cleaner than even K-1 kerosene, and usually quite a bit cheaper than buying it at $10/gallon from Menards.
 
I guess the real question is: "what will your city or county airport authority or fire department allow you to use as an approved hangar heat source"? Our county hangars get inspected every year by the airport fire department, and we have very few options for approved hangar heat sources.
 
MED said:
The line guys fill my 1 gallon kerosene container when they sump their Jet A tanks.
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nice life hack! My airport has only Full Service Jet A at $5.99. I'm not sure if they are allowed to fill a kerosene can or may think there is something suspicious about the request. Kerosene at Sheetz is $6.20 so I just get that..
 
ve0kog said:
nice life hack! My airport has only Full Service Jet A at $5.99. I'm not sure if they are allowed to fill a kerosene can or may think there is something suspicious about the request. Kerosene at Sheetz is $6.20 so I just get that..
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It may be different a your airport, but my fill would be discarded anyway.
 
Did I miss the obvious answer. Move to TX or FL, just not this week as it is exceptionally cold in FL for FL right now (forecast of 25 this weekend in central FL).
 
John Stewart 1 said:
A wall-mounted heater can efficiently heat a cold hangar by delivering warm air directly into the space without taking up floor area. Placing multiple units strategically along walls helps distribute heat evenly across the large open area. Combining wall-mounted heaters with fans or ceiling airflow systems can further circulate warmth and reduce cold spots.
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@DeltaRomeo AI Bot alarm!

[ed. Dealt with. Thank you! dr]
 
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bobnoffs said:
if you got it flaunt it i guess but a heated slab is a real waste of fuel. think of all those tons of concrete you are heating . and usually with a couple inches of foam insulation under it, not much insulation. if i was going to heat a hangar it would be with suspended furnaces and ceiling fans. in a business i used to work at the in floor heat was a real winner with the mechanics. each night 2 semi tractor-trailers would be pulled in for the night. they were not even dripping in the morning. fuel was so cheap then. i remember the brick office, built in about 1971 didnt even have insulation between the drywall and the brick.
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Older post,but I'm confused on your comment of in floor heat being a waste of fuel. When I was stationed in Korea, the home I lived in had floor heat using propane. Absolutely loved the warm floor and the constant temperature it provided. At the time, I told my self any building that I built would have heated floors.

When I contructed a 50X56 hangar on my property, I put down plastic, foam board, radiant tubing before the concrete was poured.
I am building a log house near the hangar that I installed radiant heat floor also. Nearly finished , I'm a do-it-yourselfer and have done most everything myself, actually finishing up the wiring right now. In building it, I put plastic, 2" foam board, 4-6" sand, laid down the radiant tubing in the sand (for a heat sink), then had the concrete poured on top. I used an electric boiler for heating the anti-freeze solution. I installed the boiler and did the plumbing of it myself. Have a friend that owns a HVAC business and he said I did a nicer job than his crew and that I saved myself over $10K by doing it myself. Even in -20 to -30 Minnestoa winter, my monthly electric bill is $250-300. Basement, main floor and huge loft, Over 3,000 sq.ft. of living area and a 12/12 pitched roof so the house has a lot of cubic feet to heat up.

The house I am currently living in (acrossed the road, is under 2,000 sq.ft. The electric/fuel oil costs in the winter are double to triple what the log house uses in heating/electrical costs.
 
MacCool said:
I agree....infra red heaters heat the skin of the airplane, little or no effect on fuel contained inside...
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Isn't this like saying an infrared heater will heat your skin, but not your body inside it? The skin of my fuel tank is in contact with the fuel inside, and aluminum is an excellent conductor of heat.
 
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