roxiedog13
Member
Thinking about purchasing a 14, just wondering if the trade-off of losing the nose wheel is worth the additional performance, all feedback welcome.
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Tail wheel vs Nose wheel pros and cons
- Thread starter roxiedog13
- Start date
Tail wheel looks better.
Nose wheel handles crosswind landings better.
Tail wheel is better on grass fields.
Tail wheel seems very bouncy on landings.
Nose wheel locks in on landings.
Nose wheel has stout main gear legs.
Nose wheel has a dampened nose wheel.
Tail wheel has tubes for main gear legs.
Tail wheel looks better.
Nose wheel gets you some grief from the tail wheel guys.
Tail wheel looks better.
Insurance is higher on tail wheel.
Tail wheel looks better.
Nose wheel handles crosswind landings better.
Tail wheel is better on grass fields.
Tail wheel seems very bouncy on landings.
Nose wheel locks in on landings.
Nose wheel has stout main gear legs.
Nose wheel has a dampened nose wheel.
Tail wheel has tubes for main gear legs.
Tail wheel looks better.
Nose wheel gets you some grief from the tail wheel guys.
Tail wheel looks better.
Insurance is higher on tail wheel.
Tail wheel looks better.
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scsmith
Well Known Member
Popcorn all buttered and ready to go.
Is it true that the RV-14 main gear legs are tubular? I don't think that's the case on the RV-4,6,7,9. They are solid steel bar that fits into tubular sockets on the engine mount.
To the OP - the cruise performance difference is small but measurable. The primary reasons for tailwheel are better access to austere fields and ease of ground handling. But the REAL reason is the joy/frustration/challenge/satisfaction of mastering tailwheel flying. Secondary reason is it is way easier to get the cowling on and off.
They are round in the tail wheel, maybe tubular was a poor choice of words, and tapered square (for lack of a better description) in the nose wheel variant. The landing gear system in the nose wheel variant is stout. The nose wheel's nose wheel is on a damping system. It's very similar to the RV-10.
MacCool
Well Known Member
Personally, I think it's a matter of personal preference. I've owned and flown both over the last few decades and acknowledge pros and cons on both sides of the issue. I prefer owning and flying tricycle gear airplanes.
bonefishdave
Well Known Member
Try keeping an A on the runway after a left or right brake failure 
From experience? Yikes!Try keeping an A on the runway after a left or right brake failure
Like so many things, it comes down to your judgement of ‘fun’ vs cost. Most consider landing a TW a fun challenge; your insurance company considers it an additional risk ($$).
Roadjunkie1
Well Known Member
Being born and raised on Cubs, I still remember where I saw my first J-3 with a nose gear 
Columbus, Montana. Gary Woltermann had converted his J-3 into a nose-gear Cub. Which looked ridiculous. I had to blink and rub my eyes to make sure that was what I was seeing! how to make a slow airplane fly slower...... Now I see a NEW, factory-built Carbon Cub with a nose gear......
When I build SuzieQ there was no other option than tail wheel. It wouldn't have made any difference if there was. Not sure how many hours I have in nose draggers; maybe 50? It's all a matter of preference and perception of flying skills. But ANYONE can learn to fly a tail-dragger. I have landed in some hellish crosswinds...... both in the Cub and SuzieQ.
Put me down for a
for the non-A types. I think they just look better and are more versatile, although I have seen some -As in some pretty amazing places!
Columbus, Montana. Gary Woltermann had converted his J-3 into a nose-gear Cub. Which looked ridiculous. I had to blink and rub my eyes to make sure that was what I was seeing! how to make a slow airplane fly slower...... Now I see a NEW, factory-built Carbon Cub with a nose gear......When I build SuzieQ there was no other option than tail wheel. It wouldn't have made any difference if there was. Not sure how many hours I have in nose draggers; maybe 50? It's all a matter of preference and perception of flying skills. But ANYONE can learn to fly a tail-dragger. I have landed in some hellish crosswinds......
both in the Cub and SuzieQ.Put me down for a
for the non-A types. I think they just look better and are more versatile, although I have seen some -As in some pretty amazing places!
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In addition
Getting in and out of tail wheel will be more difficult
Taxing a tail wheel for sure is more difficult
Fuel calibration of a tail wheel is more work, though this is a one time event.
Tail wheel is about 2 miles faster and probably has a cooler engine temps since there is less blocking of the exit air.
Looks is very subjective, I personally like the look of nose wheel
The chance of a prop strike with a TW is much more. One of my friend learned that the expensive way by suddenly braking hard while taxing.
Insurance rates for taildraggers are higher. Until the operator accumulates some arbitrary number of hours after which time the insurance company then believes you are less of a risk.
Oh and Taildraggers look better, faster -- they make their owners look better too
Oh and Taildraggers look better, faster -- they make their owners look better too
First rule of operating a tailwheel equipped aircraft -- stay off the binders.
Second rule of operating a tailwheel equipped aircraft -- stay off the binders.
When I land at a unfamilar or large airport, I always appreciate the nose wheel for visibility and high speed taxi.
Buy a nose wheel and fly with a buddy that has a tail wheel then you have the best of both worlds, the comfort of the nose wheel and you can look at the tail wheel!
An extra bonus is your tail wheel buddies will never let you feel overly confident in your flying abilities.
Buy a nose wheel and fly with a buddy that has a tail wheel then you have the best of both worlds, the comfort of the nose wheel and you can look at the tail wheel!
An extra bonus is your tail wheel buddies will never let you feel overly confident in your flying abilities.
Roadjunkie1
Well Known Member
Learned to fly from the back seat of a J-3 Cub. For the first 500 or so hours, I wasn't aware that you could SEE out of an airplane on the ground....
I think you mean Gary Woltermann. The airfield is named Woltermann after Gary's dadBeing born and raised on Cubs, I still remember where I saw my first J-3 with a nose gear
When I build SuzieQ there was no other option than tail wheel. It wouldn't have made any difference if there was. Not sure how many hours I have in nose draggers; maybe 50? It's all a matter of preference and perception of flying skills. But ANYONE can learn to fly a tail-dragger. I have landed in some hellish crosswinds......
Put me down for a
AggravateNose draggers seem to aggrivate tail dragger drivers. That alone is worth it!
We enjoy the skill, precision, and accuracy that operating one demands
squeakersc063
Well Known Member
In all reality, tailwheel is a dying concept outside of the off field and hobby market. Professionally all military and commercial planes have made the jump to nose wheel. If you want skills that will transfer to the maximum number of planes, nose wheel. You'll get more practically usable time logged and you'll have cheaper insurance as well as an easier time 99% of the time in taxi and landing. Nose wheel aircraft are not incapable of landing off airport for that matter so you're purely in it for the aesthetic at this point.
Roadjunkie1
Well Known Member
Well, I knew that and, as I wrote it, I almost had to go look it up! Thanks! Gary would have given me "that look". He gave me my private check ride in a 7EC Champ at Billings.....um.....several years ago......
I landed, having apparently passed my checkride and we were rolling out on the runway when suddenly we were going OFF the runway! WHAAAAT just happened?? I corrected and got it rolling straight again. I asked him afterwords and he told me he stomped on a rudder just to see what I would do! I might have to go up and edit my post...
Roadjunkie1
Well Known Member
Dying concept! Harsh words. Can't remember the last time I saw a sprayplane with a nose wheel, although there might be some out there. And tail dragger sprayers are still in serious production, However, on one other point I might respectfully disagree: someone trained in a tail wheel aircraft will have little difficulty transitioning to a nose wheel aircraft but not the other way around. So, in reality, if you want skills that transfer to the maximum number of airplanes, learn in a tail wheel. I would also take exception to the 99% comment.
But I digress......Popcorn anyone..........?
wirejock
Well Known Member
Spelling works too!Aggravate
We enjoy the skill, precision, and accuracy that operating one demands
BoydBirchler
Well Known Member
I have never seen a taildragger RV upside down on the runway; How ever I have personally seen 3 nosewheel RV's upside down on the runway..
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RV8JD
Well Known Member
We enjoy the skill, precision, and accuracy that operating one demands
And satisfaction!
To make my post somewhat worthwhile, I'll mention an excellent book on flying conventional gear airplanes, "The Compleat Taildragger Pilot" by Harvey S. Plourde.
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At my airport, I’ve seen a TW RV ground loop, and a nose wheel RV go off the side of the runway during an attempted take off. As a current cfi I’d say that a shockingly large number of lower time pilots (and some high time) have weak landing and ground control skills. Also, a VAF member and TW driver reported here, some time ago, that in the course of trying to get a partner in his TW RV aircraft, two different pilots managed to stand the plane up on its nose, two prop strikes and two engine tear downs, in a very short time span. He is now persona non grata with the insurance companies and was looking to sell his plane as he was uninsurable.
Tail wheel RVs are easer to build. Three 14s and one 14a have been built in my RVCentral help center. The nose gear 14a was a difficult build because of the FWF extra ‘stuff’ . I almost won’t take in nose wheel customers.. almost. Too much trouble,, and an extra wheel pant,, ! ,,, two wheel pants are a lot of glass work,,
Desert Rat
Well Known Member
How about now...
Attachments
bonefishdave
Well Known Member
mine is a 7 so not my experience, but I am aware of it happening to a friend in his A.
Happened to me in a Cherokee, flat tire, 60 hour pilot, scary.
Roadjunkie1
Well Known Member
Excellent reference! Well-worn copy on my book shelf, including from being passed around to friends!
bonefishdave
Well Known Member
bonefishdave
Well Known Member
I do a lot of tail wheel instruction and transition training. Compared to my cub, RV’s are much less likely to ground loop. They really want to keep rolling straight down the runway.
Best post I've seen today Wirejock.Nose draggers seem to aggravate tail dragger drivers. That alone is worth it!
Desert Rat
Well Known Member
2,600x40 Grass runway. Buddy of mine nailed that short field landing and then turned it into a really short field landing.Doesn’t seem to be on the runway though
I should probably also say that this isn't meant to discourage the OP from considering a taildragger. I'm building an RV7, largely because I've flown quite a few planes with fully castering nose wheels and I'm not a fan.
Desert Rat
Well Known Member
I don't know what you built or what primer you used, or whether it's a tip up or slider, but I vehemently disagree with your decision anyway.
I had thought the primary benefit of a tailwheel was telling everybody you flew a tailwheel .
How do you know somebody's a tailwheel pilot? Don't worry, they'll tell you!
. How do you know somebody's a tailwheel pilot? Don't worry, they'll tell you!
BillL
Well Known Member
Yeah - -a tail dragger can tip on the nose . . . it is pilot error not an inherent trap. I have about 300 hrs now in the RV7 and can say if you remain a tidy pilot, then all is well. Get dreamy or lazy and it is not as forgiving when landing. Bouncing on landing (from experience) is touching down too fast, period. AOA is my good friend now . Insurance penalty goes away at 500 hrs PIC.
Recommendation - - get a plane you are happy with. The tail wheel or nose wheel are different in loading baggage, brake wear and taxi. My -7 is no issue at all for taxi, but the elevator always has to be back or silliness happens. Both just different, not good or bad except both have bragging rights to something. Both are till RV's!
. Insurance penalty goes away at 500 hrs PIC. Recommendation - - get a plane you are happy with. The tail wheel or nose wheel are different in loading baggage, brake wear and taxi. My -7 is no issue at all for taxi, but the elevator always has to be back or silliness happens. Both just different, not good or bad except both have bragging rights to something. Both are till RV's!
bonefishdave
Well Known Member
A model pilots tend to leave the rudder out of stick and rudder. 
Roadjunkie1
Well Known Member
I was a little nervous initially flying a low wing tail dragger when I first started flying SuzieQ. Most all of my time was in one type of Cub or another. I soon found that an RV-4 seemed to be easier to land than the Cub (don't tell her I told you that!
) I remember early on during a landing in SuzieQ I found I was 'stirring the pot' to find the runway. I remember saying to myself 'what are you doing THAT for??' It was something I was used to doing in unfamiliar airplanes. That was actually the last time I remember doing that. Getting her properly set up and waiting for her to nearly land herself became my technique after that! Getting good at landings takes consistency in technique and PRACTICE in ANY aircraft but especially tail draggers.I was on the back deck once watching airplanes land. A cream and orange V-tailed Bonanza landed and, as it rolled by the house (about 1/4 of the way down the runway) I was shocked to see NO ONE WAS IN THE AIRPLANE!!!
The pilot suddenly popped up into view. Apparently he had dropped something and was picking it up off of the floor! Well, one had best let whatever hit the floor stay there in a tail dragger or you will find out how bumpy the right-of-way is!!!
rocketman1988
Well Known Member
That’s a pretty ridiculous statement…A model pilots tend to leave the rudder out of stick and rudder.
bonefishdave
Well Known Member
I fly with a lot of pilots, and by far those that fly tail wheel planes tend to keep the ball in the center through all phases of flight compared to those that don’t. Don’t be offended by this, rather accept a new flight challenge and do some training in a tail wheel plane If you haven’t already done so. I will guarantee you will be a better aviator afterwords.
rocketman1988
Well Known Member
You are making a faulty assumption. I have and do fly with both TD and Trike pilots... a lot of them. I can say, without hesitation, that there are, um, less than stellar pilots in BOTH groups. To say one is any better than another is making a faulty generalization. Pilots who care about their craft will ALWAYS do better than ones who are lackadaisical about it; and there are plenty of examples of each in both camps.
As for "accepting a new flight challenge", well, I 've been there, done that, taught that, and got the T-shirt. It' not the plane, it's the pilot...
That’s not aggravation! It’s sympathy.Nose draggers seem to aggravate tail dragger drivers. That alone is worth it!
Not interested in participating in this type of debate but thought I would point out that as far as performance goes, it depends on what actual parameters you are debating…Fantastic subject! But please no more as my corn is in short supply over the Winter months...
3 more pros for a TW aircraft:
performanceweightprop clearanceah, and of course, looks
The tri gear will win every time if take-off and landing distances are what is being compared.
Now ya did it!
Smilin' Jack
Well Known Member
The draggers look great if you plan on keeping the aircraft and your younger the insurance companies will start eating away at your savings when you approach late 70’s and 80’s.
If you have a tailwheel make sure you fly it. That makes the insurance companies happy and you will be blessed with rates that are reasonable.
I have heard they expect you to fly more than 60 hours a year.
roxiedog13
Member
500 hrs is a lot of flying time, many private pilots would never get a break from insurance.Yeah - -a tail dragger can tip on the nose . . . it is pilot error not an inherent trap. I have about 300 hrs now in the RV7 and can say if you remain a tidy pilot, then all is well. Get dreamy or lazy and it is not as forgiving when landing. Bouncing on landing (from experience) is touching down too fast, period. AOA is my good friend now
Recommendation - - get a plane you are happy with. The tail wheel or nose wheel are different in loading baggage, brake wear and taxi. My -7 is no issue at all for taxi, but the elevator always has to be back or silliness happens. Both just different, not good or bad except both have bragging rights to something. Both are till RV's!
