Starlink Mini

[YellowJacket RV9]

Anybody used one of these in an RV yet? Seen a few pictures of them mounted in Cirrus and 172's, trying to think how it might be done in an RV. Looks like it will work at our speeds, and $50/month ain't bad if you're going to be spending a lot of time in the air.

Chris

 

[Thermos]

How big is the antenna?

Dave

 

[YellowJacket RV9]

How big is the antenna?

Dave

17"x13"x3"

 

[N787KV]

According to their web site, the Mini antenna size is 11.75" x 10.2" x 1.45". Smaller then their Standard. Interesting idea.

 

[jliltd]

I thought the mini was designed to stop working when it detects motion to keep users from using it mobile. Trent Palmer installed Starlink in his Kitfox with the antenna mounted in the skylight.

 

[Thermos]

SpaceX’s website is confusing, but it looks like the dimensions that Chris mentioned might be for the package that everything comes in, and Peter’s numbers are the size of the unit itself.

I’d be a little paranoid of having that much RF next to my cranium in the -7’s cockpit but if Elon ever comes out with a Micro or Nano with an exterior-mount antenna, I’d be interested. I’d give up some mb/sec for a smaller form factor.

My $0.02.

ds

 

[YellowJacket RV9]

I thought the mini was designed to stop working when it detects motion to keep users from using it mobile. Trent Palmer installed Starlink in his Kitfox with the antenna mounted in the skylight.

I’m not sure if his was the mini or not, but the new “roam” plan specifically allows in-motion use. A cirrus pilot said it worked for him at over 200 kts

 

[jeffk]

Starlink support states the 50GB base plan for the mini supports in motion data up to 250 mph.

I had a Google Hangouts call with a friend who was connected via Starlink Mini this week. He was north of Las Vegas at 11500 and the quality was excellent. Sadly I was on the ground.

 

[noahhl]

I have one on order, will report back next week. I plan to try mounting it under the window in the baggage area (tipup; somehow clamped to the rollbar-to-baggage-bulkhead brace. Also considered inside the left wingtip -- it should fit, and the fiberglass itself won't interfere, but might be too many obstructions nearby (lights, the outboard wing rib).

 

[Richard Connell]

I have one on order, will report back next week. I plan to try mounting it under the window in the baggage area (tipup; somehow clamped to the rollbar-to-baggage-bulkhead brace. Also considered inside the left wingtip -- it should fit, and the fiberglass itself won't interfere, but might be too many obstructions nearby (lights, the outboard wing rib).

I’m contemplating the LH wingtip as well (if it fits) but I’ll need to test whether it interferes with the VOR antenna performance.

 

[YellowJacket RV9]

Interested to hear and see what people come up with. I had considered a swinging shelf that could swing up from the side of the baggage compartment when needed, and fold down flush with the side when not in use.

 

[YellowJacket RV9]

I'll bet it wouldn't be too hard to design a fiberglass bubble that would allow it to be mounted on top of the fuselage with a pretty low profile.

Chris

 

[Phil Sprang]

I have one on order, will report back next week. I plan to try mounting it under the window in the baggage area (tipup; somehow clamped to the rollbar-to-baggage-bulkhead brace. Also considered inside the left wingtip -- it should fit, and the fiberglass itself won't interfere, but might be too many obstructions nearby (lights, the outboard wing rib).

Please let us know the size of the connector for the wire. Pictures would be great!

 

[Pdp7427]

Bet this would be neat in the -10 under the fiberglass canopy in the baggage compartment.

 

[okent]

I have the new mini and am planning on just that: put it in the baggage area of my RV10 and go for a flight. Either Saturday or Sunday. Will report back.

 

[Pdp7427]

I have the new mini and am planning on just that: put it in the baggage area of my RV10 and go for a flight. Either Saturday or Sunday. Will report back.

Awesome would love to hear. I am considering this as a backup to hardwired cable internet and the plus would be portability for access anywhere we go.

 

[iwannarv]

Can't really argue with the Starlink website.....

 

[Walt]

I already can't get my wife off of FB long enough to have a normal conversation with her at home, now you want to take that away from me in the airplane too, never gonna happen! I tell my kids all the time "get off the stupid internet" already!!!

 

[YellowJacket RV9]

I already can't get my wife off of FB long enough to have a normal conversation with her at home, now you want to take that away from me in the airplane too, never gonna happen! I tell my kids all the time "get off the stupid internet" already!!!

I agree. But I see it as a way to have in-flight texting and phone service via wifi, which can be extremely helpful and a safety benefit. Also, access to weather resources that in the past you would have to pay XM for, among many other benefits. Another way to keep family informed during travel rather than paying for a spot tracker, and easy to updated them on plans, ETA, etc.

Chris

 

[larrynew]

Accessing near live FAA weather cams is my best use case so far.

I’ve tested my Starlink Mini for 8 hours in my RV10. All altitudes, speeds and headings. Flawless performance with download speeds 30-151 Mbps. For now, it’s on the co-Pilot glare shield powered by an Anker battery brick. I next plan to test it somewhere up against the baggage roof. If that works, I plan to have a mount similar to Starlink’s Mini Wall Mount powered off ships power.

 

[planenutz]

Our topography is such that many cell towers are located on hills around the countryside however despite their prolific number, when travelling State Highways the reception is patchy and the blank spots are large. The irony is that when you're flying around the country you get great mobile phone reception at medium altitudes but rearely have the time to take advantage of it.

I assume these Starlink units would be suitable for a boat and that they would give you good coverage in very remote regions. Would they work out cheaper than a Sat Phone?

 

[NORDO Industries LLC]

Some more Starlink Mini details:

Power is input via a DC5521 barrel jack that will accept 12-48v. Peak power draw is 60w, and average is 20-30w.
You can run it from a USB-C PD power source with an adapter that will cost you maybe $10 on Amazon. A 99 watt-hour battery will provide 4-6 hours of connectivity.

Wifi is built-in, so you won't need an external router to make things work, although it does have an ethernet port. If you wanted to go to comical extremes, you could install an $848 fuselage-mountable wifi antenna and share high-speed internet with your formation flight.

Plan-wise (in the US) you have two choices:

• $50/mo for the Roam Mini plan which gets you 50 GB of data to use either stationary or in-motion
• $150/mo for the Mobile Regional plan where you get unlimited data to use while stationary (defined as <10 mph), however you can flip a switch to allow purchasing Priority Data which allows in-motion use, at an extra $2/GB

Both plans can be started/stopped whenever you want.

Our topography is such that many cell towers are located on hills around the countryside however despite their prolific number, when travelling State Highways the reception is patchy and the blank spots are large. The irony is that when you're flying around the country you get great mobile phone reception at medium altitudes but rearely have the time to take advantage of it.

I assume these Starlink units would be suitable for a boat and that they would give you good coverage in very remote regions. Would they work out cheaper than a Sat Phone?

An Iridium sat phone plan that costs $150/mo will give you 50 minutes of calling, and 100 MB of data. Starlink is orders of magnitude cheaper. Inland, no special plans are needed. Offshore, you need to purchase data at $2/GB as you'll be utilizing the inter-satellite links, which are currently capacity-constrained.
A friend of mine lives in an extremely rural area in the Dakotas, and has a Mini mounted to the interior moonroof of his truck to use while driving, since it's cheaper and more reliable than a cellular connection.

Accessing near live FAA weather cams is my best use case so far.

For those who are out west, I'm going to take yet another opportunity to evangelize the AlertCalifornia camera network, which has >1000 high-quality cameras installed throughout the state providing live views, timelapses of up to 24 hours, and 360º panoramas captured at 10-minute intervals.

 

[RV8JD]

I already can't get my wife off of FB long enough to have a normal conversation with her at home, now you want to take that away from me in the airplane too, never gonna happen! I tell my kids all the time "get off the stupid internet" already!!!

And more distracted pilots not looking out the windscreen for traffic!

 

[Amadeus]

According to their web site, the Mini antenna size is 11.75" x 10.2" x 1.45". Smaller then their Standard. Interesting idea.

This may even fit in a MyGoFlight iPad Universal Cradle or certainly the Universal Cradle XL. Mounted in the luggage area windscreen once cargo is loaded. Flexible to mount about anywhere with this type mount.

 

[YellowJacket RV9]

And more distracted pilots not looking out the windscreen for traffic!

Such is the argument about anything new in the cockpit. Any of us could ALREADY text, talk and watch videos at pattern altitude just about anywhere with a simple cell phone should we be that stupid. Don't see how being able to do that at 12,500' is worse.

 

[RV7A Flyer]

The one place in my life I am blissfully free of cellphones, texting, emails, etc., is cruising along at altitude. No thanks.

 

[YellowJacket RV9]

The one place in my life I am blissfully free of cellphones, texting, emails, etc., is cruising along at altitude. No thanks.

To each his own, but more connectivity means more freedom to fly for some of us who, perhaps unfortunately, need to be in contact with others, or fly with somebody who does.

Anyways….

 

[RV8JD]

Such is the argument about anything new in the cockpit. Any of us could ALREADY text, talk and watch videos at pattern altitude just about anywhere with a simple cell phone should we be that stupid. Don't see how being able to do that at 12,500' is worse.

To each his own, but more connectivity means more freedom to fly for some of us who, perhaps unfortunately, need to be in contact with others, or fly with somebody who does.

Anyways….

To paraphrase Shakespeare, “You doth protest too much, methinks”!

 

[dmattmul]

And more distracted pilots not looking out the windscreen for traffic!

This is more for passengers (Wife's) who we are lucky enough to join us while we take to the skies. Plus, you can listen to Sirius XM radio, and SMS the kids when you are 30 mins out.

 

[RV8JD]

This is more for passengers (Wife's) who we are lucky enough to join us while we take to the skies. Plus, you can listen to Sirius XM radio, and SMS the kids when you are 30 mins out.

Obviously, no problem with that. But see post #27.

 

[YellowJacket RV9]

Obviously, no problem with that. But see post #27.

Yep, I am guilty of considering sending a quick text while cruising at over 8k feet to let somebody know my ETA or about a diversion. Or even, gasp, listening to music or checking live weather updates. I don’t anticipate a lot of Netflix movies in my piloting future. I have a wife and two toddlers - being able to check in is a big deal.

Listen, some of us want to disconnect and fly in pure peace, and some of us enjoy tinkering, and could see a use for in-flight connectivity. There are safe and reckless ways to do both. Lots of “look outside darnit” type curmudgeons flying around with no transponder that aren’t doing a whole lot to contribute to anybody’s safety, either. I’ve almost been hit by one on several occasions. Again, we already have access to the internet below a few thousand feet in most areas. Somehow we are not texting and flying our way into mountainsides yet, and if somebody does it won’t be the phone’s fault.

This thread was about the technical aspect of the starlink mini, not the best way to enjoy our airplanes.

Chris

 

[RV8JD]

Yep, I am guilty of considering sending a quick text while cruising at over 8k feet to let somebody know my ETA or about a diversion. Or even, gasp, listening to music or checking live weather updates. I don’t anticipate a lot of Netflix movies in my piloting future. I have a wife and two toddlers - being able to check in is a big deal.

Listen, some of us want to disconnect and fly in pure peace, and some of us enjoy tinkering, and could see a use for in-flight connectivity. There are safe and reckless ways to do both. Lots of “look outside darnit” type curmudgeons flying around with no transponder that aren’t doing a whole lot to contribute to anybody’s safety, either. I’ve almost been hit by one on several occasions. Again, we already have access to the internet below a few thousand feet in most areas. Somehow we are not texting and flying our way into mountainsides yet, and if somebody does it won’t be the phone’s fault.

This thread was about the technical aspect of the starlink mini, not the best way to enjoy our airplanes.

Chris

Please see post #28.

 

[Richard Connell]

We don’t have XM wx here. Depending on where you go we might get reliable cell service maybe 50% of the time down low within a few hundred miles of the south/east coast. Everywhere else - not much.
For me this is about wx data and keeping the copilot and teenagers in the back happy. If I can do database updates and play video games while I’m bored all the better

There have been expensive wx/satcom/data solutions for certified AC forever and nobody’s fallen out of the sky using them.

This should hopefully be an affordable, practical solution for those that want it. Nobody’s forcing no one to use one!

Looks like we are still a few weeks away from getting hold of one down under. So will be keen to hear how people go with internal mounting and attenuation through the cabin top or wingtip fiberglass in the meantime.

 

[Saville]

I've had Starlink in mind for quite some time in order to provide position checks at home, and to people at my destination while I'm flying XC. I'll be interested in hearing how it works out.

 

[Dugaru]

To paraphrase Shakespeare, “You doth protest too much, methinks”!

Kind of a weird paraphrased quote in this context. You doubt his sincerity?

 

[Thermos]

I’ve tested my Starlink Mini for 8 hours in my RV10. All altitudes, speeds and headings. Flawless performance with download speeds 30-151 Mbps. For now, it’s on the co-Pilot glare shield powered by an Anker battery brick. I next plan to test it somewhere up against the baggage roof. If that works, I plan to have a mount similar to Starlink’s Mini Wall Mount powered off ships power.

Thanks Larry, that's really good to know. From the YT videos I've seen, it looks like the Mini has to be oriented in a specific way using an app and I was wondering how well it would work with changes in aircraft attitude or orientation. I'm guessing it works fine in the air because no trees, buildings, etc around to block a view of the sky.

How long will it run on your Anker brick?

Dave

 

[larrynew]

Thanks Larry, that's really good to know. From the YT videos I've seen, it looks like the Mini has to be oriented in a specific way using an app and I was wondering how well it would work with changes in aircraft attitude or orientation. I'm guessing it works fine in the air because no trees, buildings, etc around to block a view of the sky.

How long will it run on your Anker brick?

Dave

Dave,

The Mini seems to work fine pointed generally up. Maybe +/- 20 degrees. I tried it multiple orientations on the ground, on the dash of my truck driving around and in the airplane.

It runs about 2.5 hrs on the Anker 24000 mAh Powerbank. Hardest part was finding a usb c to 5521 power cord that worked. Returned 3 cheap ones from amazon that didn’t. Finally ordered 1528-5501-ND from DigiKey and it works.

Edit: Starlink now sells a usb c cable for the Mini.

It will take 12-48 vdc. I plan to run it on ships power if it continues to test well. I also have an adaptor in the mail to run off a Dewalt battery.

 

[cjs]

Whole set up seems to be about 3-4 pounds.
Dimensions: 11.75” x 10.25”, about 1.25” thick

 

[KTOA]

Below are images of the Starlink Mini 'inside' a -14 wingtip while sitting in my truck bed. It does work.

 

[erich weaver]

For those who are out west, I'm going to take yet another opportunity to evangelize the AlertCalifornia camera network, which has >1000 high-quality cameras installed throughout the state providing live views, timelapses of up to 24 hours, and 360º panoramas captured at 10-minute intervals.

hate to hijack this discussion but I just tried the suggested AlertCalifornia website and it’s very cool and useful. Maybe post about this in a separate thread?

 

[avrojockey]

Just ordered. The ability to text or call for work is productive, and higher fidelity WX radar will be great

 

[RV7A Flyer]

There have been expensive wx/satcom/data solutions for certified AC forever and nobody’s fallen out of the sky using them.

Well, actually, there have been... This is older information, but the lesson is still true today; what you're seeing may be older than you think, and using Wx radar to try to dodge trouble can be a bad idea.

Nexrad Weather Radar Linked to Small Plane Crash Deaths

Federal transportation experts are warning that a weather radar system used in many small planes may have caused the deaths of at least two pilots who

www.aboutlawsuits.com

 

[cactusman]

Cox gigabit versus starlink mini....caveat - on my back patio not in motion...

 

[noahhl]

Flew with it this morning behind the tip up rollbar. For test purposes, just held it up with a suction cup w/ a RAM x-grip tablet holder on the end and copious amounts of flight test tape. Speed test was 142 Mbps with 24 ms latency at 4500' and 140 KTAS. Some variability (as low as 50 Mbps) as I maneuvered, but no consistent pattern w/ heading or anything.

Still undecided if I'm going to come up with a more permanent mount behind the seats (probably tied into the rollbar and rollbar-to-baggage-bulkhead or try the left wingtip. I have spare wires run out to the stall warning access panel, so not hard to get power out to the wingtip.

 

[Snowflake]

How much power does this thing transmit with? Is it safe that close to your head?

 

[Thermos]

How much power does this thing transmit with? Is it safe that close to your head?

RF safety is not my specialty and authoritative safe distance numbers should come from SpaceX. But as an engineering exercise I did some resarch and ran some numbers.

SpaceX says in their FCC filing that the effective transmit power (transmitter power plus antenna gain) at 14 GHz is 33.2 dBW, or around 2 kilowatts, at when the beam is pointing directly away from the antenna face. It’s a little less when the beam is pointing off-broadside.

In the absence of any distance numbers from SpaceX, plugging the above numbers into an RF exposure calculator says that the minimum safe distance in the beam is around 5 to 11 feet assuming an always-on transmit duty cycle. Because this is a phased array antenna there’s likely to be a lot less RF outside of the transmit beam but to know exactly how much, you’d need information that SpaceX didn’t provide.

Perhaps a Mini owner on this thread can look in the user manual and see if it lists anything about RF safety.

HTH

Dave

 

[BCP Boys]

I bet the designers of StarLink never thought customers would be using it and placing it in a small 2 to 4 passenger airplane placed where a sunshade would normally be placed .
We have certainly been camping in some remote areas, specially in the Carbon Cub, where this would be a great tool for communications and up to the minute information once we are on the ground and in and around the camp. In flight is a different story... Not sure my needs are that complicated.

 

[noahhl]

RF safety is not my specialty and authoritative safe distance numbers should come from SpaceX. But as an engineering exercise I did some resarch and ran some numbers.

SpaceX says in their FCC filing that the effective transmit power (transmitter power plus antenna gain) at 14 GHz is 33.2 dBW, or around 2 kilowatts, at when the beam is pointing directly away from the antenna face. It’s a little less when the beam is pointing off-broadside.

In the absence of any distance numbers from SpaceX, plugging the above numbers into an RF exposure calculator says that the minimum safe distance in the beam is around 5 to 11 feet assuming an always-on transmit duty cycle. Because this is a phased array antenna there’s likely to be a lot less RF outside of the transmit beam but to know exactly how much, you’d need information that SpaceX didn’t provide.

Perhaps a Mini owner on this thread can look in the user manual and see if it lists anything about RF safety.

HTH

Dave

Nothing in the installation manual or tech specs says anything about RF safety. The only limit in consumer facing Starlink materials that i could find was an 11" limit between radiator and body, but that's actually for the wifi signal, not the uplink.

The duty cycle is limited to 11% to comply w/ RF limits, but a more realistic duty cycle is probably around 1%. Even at 11%, the controlled limit based on the ARRL calculator would be about 3 feet in front of the antenna. In any useful installation, you aren't right in front of the antenna, and it's a highly directional antenna (that's how you get the maximum gain of 33.2 dBW). It also seems to have significant shielding on the back side based on the weight distribution.

Other datapoints:

1. The radiation hazard analysis (for a larger dish) puts the maximum power density at the surface of the dish at just below the exposure limit (which is what drives the 11% limit)
2. This installation checklist for a marine application specifies a minimum safe distance of 13" (for the larger, more powerful dish).

I'm personally not at all worried about it being mounted a couple feet behind and above my head, pointing away.

 

[plehrke]

It also seems to have significant shielding on the back side based on the weight distribution.

Maybe that is some shielding but most likely it is a heat sink.

 

[BillL]

I bet the designers of StarLink never thought customers would be using it and placing it in a small 2 to 4 passenger airplane placed where a sunshade would normally be placed .
We have certainly been camping in some remote areas, specially in the Carbon Cub, where this would be a great tool for communications and up to the minute information once we are on the ground and in and around the camp. In flight is a different story... Not sure my needs are that complicated.

I looked into this after an IFR XCTY flight in the smoke haze at 14,000. It was a multi year wait so I didn't.

To your post - I'll bet Elon would be thrilled to know of this usage. Seems like a safety improvement when used properly. An emergency communications opportunity if easily accessed.

Cool thread!