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Oil Filter
- Thread starter Dayton Murdock
- Start date
Toobuilder
Well Known Member
I can "afford" to replace your $30 Champion after every flight. But since I know that the consumer price of this product does not define the mechanical properties, I'd rather pay $3.50 for the equivalent.
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I prefer Champion filters, for what it's worth if you can't afford a $30 filter maybe you should find another hobby
Like always it boils down to risk vs reward.
I totally respect your point...valid, in the sense that $ should not factor. However, there are other forces in play that determine cost in aviation products which are not related to testing, approvals and quality.
Spending more money doesn't make it safer. In fact, much of the "crazy" things we do in EA-B have served to enhance safety in the certified world.
K & P Engineering filters
Confirming what others have said, I had two of the Challenger filters on my Baron many years ago. The Baron is gone, but the filters live on, one is on my wife's Explorer and the other will go on my RV-10 IO-540. They're very high quality filters. I liked them so much the I have them on my BMW motorcycle and my F350 diesel as well.
The Challenger filters are made by K&P and sold as the FAA-PMA version, but you can buy the filters, and parts, on USAoilfilters.com, except for the housing. For an IO-540 (or probably pretty much any engine with a 3/4-16 thread) you need the following parts:
Housing: C4 - this has a 1" nut on the top and safety wire holes...they are appropriately cautious about not violating their PMA agreement with Challenger, however, having held both the PMA housing and this one in my hands, it appears to be only lacking the Challenger name and FAA-PMA laser etching. You need to call K & P Engineering directly to buy this part. C4 Housing
Filter element: FE-15 - 3/4-16 thread. If you happen to be using a metric engine, such as a UL Power or Rotax, an FE-30 element will fit the housing with a 20x1.5 thread.
Spring: FE-RS1
Quad Ring: QR2 (they're about $1 each and can be used multiple times, just inspect for wear before reusing - flip them over for additional use)
If you're spending $30 on a filter that you're tossing in the garbage every four months, the break-even cost on this permanent filter is about 7 oil changes. But the price, to me, isn't the real value. The permanent filter has a 35 micron rating, which stays constant throughout the filtration period, unlike paper elements that open up during the same period (for a good time, read the certification spec for paper oil filter elements and discover the wide tolerances allowed).
Also this filter flows much better than a paper element with a 'little' extra cooling coming with the fins on the housing; at the very least, they look cool
The main benefit to me isn't the cost, or the reusable factor (both very nice features though), but rather the ability to quickly pull the filter apart and inspect. The element has a rare earth magnet, so it is immediately apparent if you have ferrous material, and inspecting the rest of the element is very easy and quick.
I then clean it with some mineral spirits (although parts cleaner in a can is recommended as well), wash with simple green, rinse with water, air blow it dry and reinstall. I read in a former post about some limitation of 5 years from ACS - I have to assume that is some legal limitation, but there is no limitation from K&P; the sucker is made from billet aluminum with stainless medical mesh in the filter element - not sure what would why it would need replacing, other than damage, with the only wear part being the quad-ring that is reusable and inexpensive as well.
Highly recommended.
Confirming what others have said, I had two of the Challenger filters on my Baron many years ago. The Baron is gone, but the filters live on, one is on my wife's Explorer and the other will go on my RV-10 IO-540. They're very high quality filters. I liked them so much the I have them on my BMW motorcycle and my F350 diesel as well.
The Challenger filters are made by K&P and sold as the FAA-PMA version, but you can buy the filters, and parts, on USAoilfilters.com, except for the housing. For an IO-540 (or probably pretty much any engine with a 3/4-16 thread) you need the following parts:
Housing: C4 - this has a 1" nut on the top and safety wire holes...they are appropriately cautious about not violating their PMA agreement with Challenger, however, having held both the PMA housing and this one in my hands, it appears to be only lacking the Challenger name and FAA-PMA laser etching. You need to call K & P Engineering directly to buy this part. C4 Housing
Filter element: FE-15 - 3/4-16 thread. If you happen to be using a metric engine, such as a UL Power or Rotax, an FE-30 element will fit the housing with a 20x1.5 thread.
Spring: FE-RS1
Quad Ring: QR2 (they're about $1 each and can be used multiple times, just inspect for wear before reusing - flip them over for additional use)
If you're spending $30 on a filter that you're tossing in the garbage every four months, the break-even cost on this permanent filter is about 7 oil changes. But the price, to me, isn't the real value. The permanent filter has a 35 micron rating, which stays constant throughout the filtration period, unlike paper elements that open up during the same period (for a good time, read the certification spec for paper oil filter elements and discover the wide tolerances allowed).
Also this filter flows much better than a paper element with a 'little' extra cooling coming with the fins on the housing; at the very least, they look cool
The main benefit to me isn't the cost, or the reusable factor (both very nice features though), but rather the ability to quickly pull the filter apart and inspect. The element has a rare earth magnet, so it is immediately apparent if you have ferrous material, and inspecting the rest of the element is very easy and quick.
I then clean it with some mineral spirits (although parts cleaner in a can is recommended as well), wash with simple green, rinse with water, air blow it dry and reinstall. I read in a former post about some limitation of 5 years from ACS - I have to assume that is some legal limitation, but there is no limitation from K&P; the sucker is made from billet aluminum with stainless medical mesh in the filter element - not sure what would why it would need replacing, other than damage, with the only wear part being the quad-ring that is reusable and inexpensive as well.
Highly recommended.
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Hey Ron - I’m interested enough to go look them up - I didn’t see a “C4 housing” listed on the web site page of products….. did I miss it, or did you mean something else?
Paul
Paul
Sorry for the twist Paul, it's here: https://kandpengineering.com/product/c4-housing/
I had to grind through the grey cells and recall that I had to call and ensure them it was for my experimental airplane and order this part over the phone. Because this part, let's call it a similar part, is also sold as the PMA part under contract to Challenger as a certified part, they're very careful about selling it. I just checked and all of the other parts I mentioned earlier are for sale on their online website at usaoilfilters.com.
vic syracuse
Well Known Member
I may have posted this already, but I have been using the Challenger series of filter on my aircraft for years (RV-10, Stearman, and the Hughes 269C). They really seem to do a better job of filtration, are so much less messy to inspect.
The first time you open one up, take a deep breath, as you will think you have an engine problem.
The use the same part number as your current filter, with a CP in front of it, e.g, CP 48110, CP-48109, etc.
Vic
The first time you open one up, take a deep breath, as you will think you have an engine problem.
The use the same part number as your current filter, with a CP in front of it, e.g, CP 48110, CP-48109, etc.
Vic
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I found them here - looks like it's linked to K&P:
http://oilfiltersites.com/
Seems like good value - is the cleaning process as easy as they show in the videos? Might be a good idea to buy two filter elements to have one ready to go.
Prefer not to mention N number. But here is a clip from the report.
"Examination of the engine provided evidence of a large piece of paper towel appearing material in the oil sump. This piece of material had plugged the oil pick up resulting in oil starvation to the engine."
PilotjohnS
Well Known Member
So it wasnt filter material but paper towel?
It was the oil filter paper.
Not sure this sounds right...how does oil filter media large enough to plug the pickup make its way from the filter canister to the sump? With the normal flow of oil, sure seems it would get stuck somewhere else first. I don't think it could get through the filter adapter/vernatherm
Paper towel seems more correct per the NTSB.
First thing my dad taught me working on engines. Never, stick paper towl/rags in any hole to plug it.
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Look's like the FE-16 would fit the C4 housing to replace the CH48103.
This looks like a great setup assuming you didn't have to fork over $100 every 5 years to replace element. Looks like any STC would require this. With EA/B, I think you replace on condition only, ie. visual inspection and oil analysis.
I've been using the same element for much more than 5 years (I think about 11 so far) and the element still looks great.
It only takes me 5-10 minutes to clean the filter, which generally gives me time for the oil to drain, so I hadn't considered buying a spare filter element, but sounds like a cool idea to be ready to go.
Great to hear. Ordered a couple days ago and just shipped today - great communication from seller at http://oilfiltersites.com/. I have 10 hrs till next oil change should be perfect timing.
Captain_John
Well Known Member
So, is it safe to say that the NAPA 1068 (or NAPA 1515, difference being that the 1515 is longer) will work in place of either the CH-48110-1 or the CH-48108-1...
The only difference is that if you normally use the CH-48110-1, you must reuse the nipple from a previously installed filter on your NAPA 1068 (or NAPA 1515)?
Likewise, will the NAPA 1068 (or NAPA 1515) be a direct replacement for the CH-48108-1 with no modification?
John
The only difference is that if you normally use the CH-48110-1, you must reuse the nipple from a previously installed filter on your NAPA 1068 (or NAPA 1515)?
Likewise, will the NAPA 1068 (or NAPA 1515) be a direct replacement for the CH-48108-1 with no modification?
John
Reposting this from a similar thread from a month or 2 ago:
I am using a Flo PCS4 on my IO-360-M1B, and my neighbor is using the same filter on his 390. On Amazon, comes in black, stainless steel, and combination, for about $112, has a 17 mm nut and a safety wire hole. Works great so far (admittedly, only a few hours on it at this point). I also have one on a Rotax 912.
https://www.amazon.com/PC-Racing-PCS...7-93deae8f9840
I am using a Flo PCS4 on my IO-360-M1B, and my neighbor is using the same filter on his 390. On Amazon, comes in black, stainless steel, and combination, for about $112, has a 17 mm nut and a safety wire hole. Works great so far (admittedly, only a few hours on it at this point). I also have one on a Rotax 912.
https://www.amazon.com/PC-Racing-PCS...7-93deae8f9840
FLO PCS4
Just cut open hopefully my last paper filter as I also installed and tested the FLO PCS4.
Since we run thicker oil at double the pressure of a car at possibly also double the flow rate, it would be nice to know how much any filter, paper or mesh is actually bypassing the media.
Just cut open hopefully my last paper filter as I also installed and tested the FLO PCS4.
Since we run thicker oil at double the pressure of a car at possibly also double the flow rate, it would be nice to know how much any filter, paper or mesh is actually bypassing the media.
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
At $34 a filter plus shipping, and the Challenger not going up in price that much, it seems to still be a good option today.
Well, they'll screw on the engine...
One significant difference (as compared to Champion or Tempest) is the bypass pressure rating. Wix rates the 51068 and 51515 (NAPA 1068 and 1515) at 8 to 11 psi. The Lycoming value is 11 to 15, with Continental (IIRC) at 13 psi.
Filter adapters for Lycomings may or may not have a built-in bypass, thus the reason for aviation filters with (48108) and without (48110) an internal bypass. If you screw a NAPA 1515 on a standard AC style filter adapter (48110, filter horizontal), the 1515's bypass opens well before the bypass built into the adapter.
The second difference is burst pressure, 290 psi for a 1515, well below either aviation filter. The combination of low burst pressure and low bypass pressure suggests an aviation application should also include multi-grade oil.
Users with the standard horizontal filter adapter (built-in bypass) might want to consider a Wix 51647, aka NAPA 1647. Burst is 390 psi, with no bypass in the filter. You will need to add a nipple.
Users with an angle adapter, which typically do not have an built-in bypass, might want to consider a Wix 51601, 360 burst with a 13-19 psi internal bypass. The catch might be diameter in some applications, 4.282", as compared to about 3.75" for the Champion/Tempest. You'll need an extra 1/4" on all sides.
From a technical standpoint, I am not very impressed with cleanable screens as compared quality paper filters. However, they might be good enough. The whole subject is a swamp. It does not appear the aviation filters meet the accepted aviation standard, while automotive filters generally use an ISO standard, and the standard claimed by Challenger doesn't actually apply to filters.
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
Do you think the "cooling fins" on the Challenger case actually do much oil cooling, or even enough to consider it as part of the buying decision over disposable filters? I'm chasing a high oil temp issue (with normal CHTs) on an angle valve IO-540 on a slow airplane (90mph cruise) and I'm looking at every possible thing I can do to help keep the oil temps low once I get it to our Texas summers.
Lenny is helping with his thoughts and if we don't get it down to normal when test flying it today, I might have to bother you for your thoughts on it.
Oil to air coolers have turbulators internal to each passage and the external fins are dense and enhanced for heat transfer as well. This is to say nearly dead oil on a few sq-in of area (vs many sq ft) w/o forced air velocity would provide a positive, but very low cooling value. The value is primarily marketing favoring the provider.
KatanaPilot
Well Known Member
Probably won't help you, but I found the source of my high oil temps on my PV IO-540. There were two washers under the Vernatherm. When I removed the extra washer, the oil temp dropped 10-15 degrees. I also instrumented the oil cooler above and below to check for pressure recovery and the differential pressures were good at all speeds from 95-160 KIAS.
(Airflow Systems 2008X oil cooler and 5" duct, Challenger/K&P oil filter).
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Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
That was my inclination.
I'll add that Vernatherm washer to the list of things to check. We already had one big hose and are installing a second big hose this morning. The next step is to install an exhaust shroud on the oil cooler exit to funnel the air outside of the cowling to make that air flow smoother with less interference by the turbulence under the cylinders.
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Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
I was doing an unrelated search and this thread came up. For future generations who read this, here's a great thread that has all the info you need on the Challenger reusable filters :
Filter Test Results
The results are in. Previous organizational thread here: https://vansairforce.net/threads/oil-filter-testing.223689/ Please support and thank our many individual donors, and our two vendor sponsors, Barrett Precision Engines and CamGuard. There are many interesting details, and research...
vansairforce.net
In the context of the oil cooler outlet side, forget "smoother" or "less interference by the turbulence under the cylinders". The only parameter of interest is static pressure on the downstream side. An exit duct can be helpful in that context, IF it connects to a region of pressure lower than the pressure available inside the lower cowl space. Note the bottom of the cowl can be a high pressure region given significant AOA.
Likely the largest factor in your case (a Wilga, IIRC) is low airspeed. Remember, dynamic pressure is based on velocity squared. At 2000 feet and 75 knots, q is only 3.46" H2O. 150 knots is 13.83". If you size cooling components based on RV applications, you'll be way undersized.
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They work good and have provisions for a safety wire if you are so inclined.
Always stick with 1930s technology!I prefer Champion filters, for what it's worth if you can't afford a $30 filter maybe you should find another hobby
Like always it boils down to risk vs reward.
Charlie Sisk
Member
Consider a Wix 51452
Hey Krea, that zip tie looks a bit tight -- might be throwing off your dP #'s... (third picture)Probably won't help you, but I found the source of my high oil temps on my PV IO-540. There were two washers under the Vernatherm. When I removed the extra washer, the oil temp dropped 10-15 degrees. I also instrumented the oil cooler above and below to check for pressure recovery and the differential pressures were good at all speeds from 95-160 KIAS.
(Airflow Systems 2008X oil cooler and 5" duct, Challenger/K&P oil filter).
Any truth to this? https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1897yKudSs/
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
Their post and my reply. If it's so bad they needed to make a post to bash them, why continue using them?
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Who knows? Answer is "the folks at M+H", but they're not likely to tell us.
The real trouble is the classic "I heard" problem. Even AI seems to be based on the information repeated most, which is not necessarily a fact.
But it’s AI on the internet; it has to be the truth!
Toobuilder
Well Known Member
How can the cans “swell” if the engineering requirements found in the product specifications have not changed? Or have new specs been released to allow a lower manufacturing standard?
There are still terrestrial engines out there that have very high requirements for burst strength, so the oil filter manufacturers need to meet that standard or abandon the line of business. Anyone think that WIX is willing to soil their stellar reputation with the very real possibility of destroyed fleet engines just to save a few cents by ignoring physical requirements of the user?
There are still terrestrial engines out there that have very high requirements for burst strength, so the oil filter manufacturers need to meet that standard or abandon the line of business. Anyone think that WIX is willing to soil their stellar reputation with the very real possibility of destroyed fleet engines just to save a few cents by ignoring physical requirements of the user?
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
I believe what Lincoln said.But it’s AI on the internet; it has to be the truth!
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Confirmation of specification appeared to be a big part of operations at the filter test lab. I saw rows of branded filters (Honda, for example) waiting for test, all manufactured on contract by someone else. "Trust but verify" seems to be an industry mantra.
True - I've seen so many YT videos testing oil filters and the guts of a lot of filters seem to change regularly. No idea how one can do QC on an oil filter before installing it. We have to trust, unfortunately. One of the things I liked about the K&P is I got to know my filter - it's a shame that it does not filter well, and I'm back to the disposable cans from Champion.
I just installed a WIX 51624 filter. It has a 500 psi burst pressure, an anti-drainback valve, and a bypass pressure of 13--19 psi, so it matches pretty closely all the specs for the 48108 filters. One odd thing is that it is intended as a transmission filter. I don't see why that would matter. They are more expensive than other WIX filters, about $19 at Fleet Filter. I found a NOS one for $10 so I thought I would give it a try.
I just received my same filter as a test article in the mail yesterday. I bought mine on Amazon for $19, but as a test article I wasn't really looking for the "best price" for a one-off.
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
For those who are considering Automotive filter, take a look at WIX 51085XP or just 51085, it has a better spec than 51515 or 51521. I tried the Fram XG16 which one of the test showed far superior in filtration but it has a layer of metal mesh behind the filter media which makes the cutting of the media very difficult. I also did not see any better result in my Blackstone report when I used the Fram XG compared to my Challenger cleanable filter.
sansoneservices
Well Known Member
Wix 51085XP is far superior to the champion 48110.. look it up if you have doubts. It has nothing to do with saving money. The wix XP series filters are the same as napa PLATINUM series. The napa gold series use paper media (like most). Nappa Platinum and Wix (XP) use a synthetic filtering media. That's not the only difference, look it up, the info is easy to find. The napa#: 1085XP
Found the Wix filters at RockAuto.
51085xp for $7.59 each
51515 for $4.82 each
51085xp for $7.59 each
51515 for $4.82 each
WIX 51515 Oil Filter | Shop Now at RockAuto
WIX Engine Parts and More for Your Vehicle at Reliably Low Prices. Fast Online Catalog. DIY-Easy. Your Choice of Quality. Full Manufacturer Warranty.
www.rockauto.com
Do NOT use a Wix 51624. Not cross posting, search "Wix Oil Filter Alert" on VAF.
Pilot135pd
Well Known Member
Thanks for posting this alert so if someone reads this thread on a search they can go over there to get the complete picture.
