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New fuel tank service bulletin from Vans

insurance coverage

Rick6a said:
I have reservations about how our insurance companies would view such inaction. If an incident occurred fuel related or not, would coverage still be in effect?
I have no idea how any insurance company would react if they didn't read in the log book that this SB had been complied with. I have read stories where they have denied coverage due to far lesser technicalities, so somewhere in my paperwork I'll write down that I have complied with this SB.

Anyone know why the 10 is not affected?
 
Captain_John said:
Tell me,

How likely is a fitting prosealed up like this one be to coming "undone"?

P2200358.JPG


:confused: CJ

You were VERY smart and now your rubbing it in our faces! :( :D
 
rv8ch said:
I have no idea how any insurance company would react if they didn't read in the log book that this SB had been complied with. I have read stories where they have denied coverage due to far lesser technicalities, so somewhere in my paperwork I'll write down that I have complied with this SB.
?

Please someone with insurance expertise correct me if I'm wrong, but an insurance company has no legal basis to refuse to pay a claim if the accident is unrelated to something the builder did or did not do. I do suspect that they might try to get you to believe they can, but I've not heard this standing up in litigation before. Of course, if you have any fuel starvation related accident and you have not complied with this SB, the insurance company is probably going to try to argue it was related to your lack of compliance. I'm not an insurance expert though, so don't base your decisions of my opinion!
 
insurance

alpinelakespilot2000 said:
...an insurance company has no legal basis to refuse to pay a claim if the accident is unrelated to something the builder did or did not do.
There was a story in one of the magazines - I've forgotten which one - where the insurance company successfully denied a claim because a builder didn't notify the FSDO of a so-called major change to his aircraft, even though he changed something, then changed it back to the original condition before he had the accident. IIRC, the thing that was changed and then changed back was not implicated in the accident. The insurance company found a way to deny the claim. If you carefully read your insurance company contracts, you'll be amazed at the numbers of things that can cause them to not pay a claim. I think it is wise to read your contracts very carefully, even if it is very boring, and might take you several sittings, and lots of expresso.

I would be very happy to hear from an insurance pro that everything I've said is total BS!

BTW, anyone know why the 10 is not affected?
 
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rv8ch said:
BTW, anyone know why the 10 is not affected?

Because it has a different fuel pickup. The fuel pickup is a finger strainer screwed into a flange at the bottom of the tank. The fuel line bulkhead fitting screws into the finger strainer. The only part inside the tank is the end of the finger strainer, so if you have a leak, it's gonna be on the outside where you can see it.

PJ
RV-10 #40032
 
RV10 tank pickup

The fuel pickup is a finger strainer screwed into a flange at the bottom of the tank.
I wonder if we should switch to this method. Anyone got some photos or scans of the plans they can post? Sure sounds like a better system.
 
rv8ch said:
If you carefully read your insurance company contracts, you'll be amazed at the numbers of things that can cause them to not pay a claim. I think it is wise to read your contracts very carefully, even if it is very boring, and might take you several sittings, and lots of expresso.

Mickey is right on target here. About 7 years ago my mother passed away. About two weeks later I was driving her car from storage to my house to arrange to have it sold, and was involved in a pretty serious traffic accident. When I filed the claim, the insurer pulled out some paragraph from the policy that said that they didn't have to cover drivers that were immediate family members of the named insured. I don't remember all the details, but the upshot was that my mom could've loaned the car to a homeless guy and been covered, but not to me. I then spent several hours researching this and going over the policy with a fine-toothed comb. I eventually found an even more obscure clause that superceded the previous one, provided the driver was acting as the named insured's "Legal Representative". At the time, I was acting as executor to my mom's estate so, after a long and bitter fight, they had to pay. The thing that really stuck with me though was how much energy they immediately invested in trying to find ways to avoid paying the claim. Read ALL of your policy and I can pretty much guarantee you'll find things that surprise you.
 
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rv8ch said:
I wonder if we should switch to this method. Anyone got some photos or scans of the plans they can post? Sure sounds like a better system.

Doesn't sound like it would work inverted.

Rat
 
My two cents on the issue.
First, the ?ground the fleet? approach that Van?s has taken seems severe. Even if we believe that this failure mode is likely, we ought to be able to operate with appropriate "handbook restrictions" until such time as we make the recommended modification.
If a failed tank feeds until the fuel level is below the fitting, then proper operation could be assumed until the fuel level gets that low, even if a failure had occurred. If the fitting is uncovered at 1/3 full, then safe operation could be assumed if a temporary handbook entry were made to restrict operation with both tanks below 1/3 full until such time as the modification to the tanks was made. Furthermore, if you choose to perform the modification in only one tank, then you could write a handbook restriction to say that operation of the final 1/3 of a tank would always be from the tank that had been reworked. (In other words, you feed from the un-modified tank first when operating below 1/3 fuel level. If the unmodified tank sucks air when 1/3 of a tank is left, then you switch tanks, and have 1/3 of a tank left in the modified tank to divert to a closer airport) Of course if you modify both tanks, then no handbook restrictions are needed.
Having said that, I have concerns that we may do more damage than good in complying with this directive. Working in the limited space available lends itself to poor surface prep of the interfaces, inability to properly torque fittings and potential for FOD in the tank. In the case of my tanks, I originally had weeping from the access plate screws, so I covered the whole shebang with proseal?.it will be a real pain to peel off and work the area. If I am to comply with this, and not mess up the wing paint by pulling the tank, I realistically need to pull the wing. At least that is the way I see it right now.
Meanwhile, I really like Roberta?s suggestion. For me, it seems like a periodic check coupled with handbook restriction might be the way to go.
 
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Not my opinion

I have just had my inspection for C of A by the SAAA (Oz equivalent of EAA) representative, who is a L.A.M.E (Licenced Aircraft Maintenance Engineer)

I ran the fuel tank problem passed him. He thought it over reaction (Legal) and that if you know you tightened the fuel pick up; leave it alone.
Just his opinion. Not MHO.
Pete.

PS.
He passed VH-WHZ. I have a C of A.
How can I avoid flying it any longer.
P
 
RV-10 plans

PJSeipel said:
Pics of the plans are posted on Tim Olson's site.

I don't think this method would work on any of the aerobatic models.
Thanks for the link to Tim's site. I totally agree that the RV10 method would not replace a flop tube.
 
Parallel development

PJSeipel said:
Pics of the plans are posted on Tim Olson's site.

http://www.myrv10.com/Plans/RV10_Plans_sec18-pg01.html

I don't think this method would work on any of the aerobatic models.

PJ
RV-10 #40032

I'll be darned! I fabricated my own fuel outlets because I didn't like the standard non flop-tube RV7 system. (I also installed the capacitive sensors and no tank access plates like the other builder that posted earlier). Now I see that I could have ordered the RV10 fuel outlet parts and saved some fabrication headache. Sheesh...

My fuel outlets
 
fuel [loose nut]

JACKR said:
Well, I knew this but forgot. I called two IA's to verify. This is NOT an AD. Until it is, you don't have to do it. If you are sure these fittings are tight, don't worry about it, you don't have to stop and do this. This is just to cover their butt.

The FAA has sent notices to DARs, informing them to inspect all RVs for this safety wire fix and they are told not to approve the airplane if the fix has not been completed.
I would like to know who has skinny arms with the strength of Superman needed to break a prosealed screw connections. I would guess 4000 plus RV owners are some what pissed right about now.
You can include me in this group.
Dale
 
Notice to DARs?

How 'bout it Mel? Is this true that the FAA has notified DARs to withhold an airworthiness cert if the SB is not complied with?
 
Dale said:
The FAA has sent notices to DARs, informing them to inspect all RVs for this safety wire fix and they are told not to approve the airplane if the fix has not been completed.

Is the FAA gonna provide the DARs with some sort of "Honey, I Shrunk The Kids" ray so that they can climb inside the tanks to check?
 
loose nut

I would guess it would involve using a borescope of some kind through the filler opening. Of course, this would mean draining the tanks and some how insuring that no heat from a light source would ignite vapors in the tank.
The only other way would be to have the tank inspected before any fuel was ever put in them. But, then you would have to have two inspections,or maybe fuel at hand to run the engine for DAR approval after the tank inspection.

Dale
n565DM
231 hrs :mad:
 
Dale said:
I would guess it would involve using a borescope of some kind through the filler opening. Of course, this would mean draining the tanks and some how insuring that no heat from a light source would ignite vapors in the tank.
The only other way would be to have the tank inspected before any fuel was ever put in them. But, then you would have to have two inspections,or maybe fuel at hand to run the engine for DAR approval after the tank inspection.

Dale
n565DM
231 hrs :mad:
 
I have not recieved any kind of notification from FAA, And I'm pretty sure I won't. FAA cannot put out an airworthiness directive for an amateur-built aircraft. A service bulletin is not binding. The big question comes with the term "safe for flight". When you present the aircraft to the DAR, you are saying that you have inspected the airplane and consider it "safe for flight". Can you, with good conscience, make that statement knowing that a mandatory service bulletin has not been complied with. Next problem comes at the time for annual condition inspection. You are signing off the aircraft as "in a condition for safe operation". Let's try a hypethetical situation. You have signed off on the condition inspection saying that the aircraft is "in a condition for safe operation". You let a friend borrow your airplane for the weekend. While he is flying it the pick-up tube comes off, he crashes and gets killed. You may be held liable for his death because you signed off the inspection knowing that the SB ws not complied with.
I don't like the SB any more than the rest of you, but as an A&P I cannot in good conscience sign off the condition inspection until the SB has been done.
Now back to the DAR sign off. Until I'm told otherwise by the FAA, I will ask if the SB has been done. If you tell me that it has, then that's fine. We are not police. If you tell me that it has not been done, that will not keep me from approving the airworthiness certificate, but it will be noted in the inspection report that goes to Oklahoma City. That way if something does happen, the monkey will be on YOUR back and not mine.
Again everything is subject to change upon hearing from the FAA. I am bound to do as they instruct.
Mel...DAR
P.S. My airplane & all those that I do annual condition inspections on will have the SB complied with before I return them to service.
Mel
 
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Just a thought...

Does anyone think there would be any sense in lobbying Van's to get them to accept prosealed connections? There is just no chance that a well-prosealed connection will vibrate loose.
 
Tony:

I have already sent off an email to Van's suggesting a prosealed fitting would be acceptable. We will see what thier response is.
 
I sent the same request off to Van's. I imagine they are getting a lot of messages on the topic. Hopefully they'll agree with the pro-seal method and get back to us soon.
 
the "blob of death"

Hopefully, Van's will accept the proseal approach(as Vern calls it, "the blob of death"). I used the rubber gasket along with prosealed allen-head screws to secure the fuel senders, so it shouldn't be too difficult to snake a tube in there (with a syringe full of proseal attached on the other end) and drop a "blob of death" on it. It has a certain ring to it, doesnt' it...
 
I agree with the "blob of death" approach. Getting the sender off will allow access to the "nut" in question. If it is tight, a blob of tank sealant could easily be applied, since the nut is so close to the opening. I would think a wrench could be snuck in there to tighten, if necessary. I would certainly tie a cord to it, though, in case you dropped it.

JMHO,

Roberta
 
Sealant is good for me...

How many times have we all cursed the fact that once Pro-Seal is in place, it is there to stay?!

I have pro-seal on that connection, and had no problem flying the airplane today (the first nice weather that we have had in a week!). Remember that in the certified airplane world, AD's are generally subjected to a comment period before they are released, and things like alternate means of compliance are brought up and frequently accepted. In the case of a service bulletin, it is whatever the company came up with, and out the door...

I, for one, take responsibility as the builder of my airplane (and an aeronautical engineer), for evaluating the design and deciding what is safe. This seems to be a very low probability event made even less probable by Pro-Seal stopping the rotation of the fitting. If it is easily accesable? The drilled and safetied fitting sounds like a good idea. But I saw a number of RV's flying today, and I doubt that any of them had been retrofitted since Friday....

I hope I don't come across as cavalier - I believe that I have a good, sound engineering solution to a potential problem brought up by Van's.

Paul
 
Anti rotation bracket missing?

Captain_John said:
Tell me,

How likely is a fitting prosealed up like this one be to coming "undone"?

P2200358.JPG


:confused: CJ

John,
I noticed in your photo that you are missing the antirotation bracket for the fuel pickup bulkhead fitting that is called out in the plans. This is meant to prevent the fitting from accidently being rotated when tightening the B nut on to the fitting outside of the tank. If it rotated the seal would likely be broken and cause a leak but worse would be that the pickup tube would rotate up away from the bottom of the tank (in the left tank anyway).
This would obviously be just as bad as the pickup tube falling off of the fitting.
 
Ok, question here...

I have canvassed my aircraft standards handbook and haven't found a "standard" method of safety tying an AN fitting. Is this because there isn't one?

So if that is the case, this "fix" isn't standard.

If it isn't standard... and neither is my prosealed connection, what makes it any better than my proseal?

Paul? Roberta? Mel? Anyone?

:confused: CJ
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
John,
I noticed in your photo that you are missing the antirotation bracket for the fuel pickup bulkhead fitting that is called out in the plans. This is meant to prevent the fitting from accidently being rotated when tightening the B nut on to the fitting outside of the tank. If it rotated the seal would likely be broken and cause a leak but worse would be that the pickup tube would rotate up away from the bottom of the tank (in the left tank anyway).
This would obviously be just as bad as the pickup tube falling off of the fitting.

Yes! Good catch!

I did this intentionally on the right tank. Reason being, if the fitting were to rotate it would tend to TIGHTEN not loosen this connection.

:rolleyes: CJ
 
Captain_John said:
Yes! Good catch!

I did this intentionally on the right tank. Reason being, if the fitting were to rotate it would tend to TIGHTEN not loosen this connection.

:rolleyes: CJ

When you tighten the fuel line to the tank fitting, how will you keep it from turning and breaking the seal in the rib? I notice that the plans call for no such bracket on the flop tube and have wondered how we're supposed to tighten these.
 
Safety wire vs Proseal

We've all discussed that Proseal may be an alternative method of compliance for the Van's SB.

There's also been some opinion that of all the fittings in the aircraft, why safety just this one?

Well, it may be because sloshing fuel applies a torque to the free end of te pickup tube. I don't think any other fittings have this situation.

I bet Van's did the analysis and realized that the sloshing of fuel may work the fitting loose. Safety wire is the right fix, because I don't think Proseal will have a lot of resistance to torque. It would be nice for Van's to approve it, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

BTW, if it's possible to remove the fitting through the pick-up access plate, then it could be drilled and reattached this way. The problem would then be safety-wire attachment.

Anyone out there with tanks in the condition where they could experiment with R&R of the pickup tube this way, and a way of safety wiring?

Vern Little
 
Vern,

If the anti-rotation bracket has been installed, there is no way to remove the fitting from the tank access plate without removing rivets.

Pat
 
4kilo said:
Vern,

If the anti-rotation bracket has been installed, there is no way to remove the fitting from the tank access plate without removing rivets.

Pat

Thanks, Pat.

My antirotation brackets are slotted, so I may be able to remove the fitting.


104_0443_1.jpg
 
szicree said:
If I do decide to open mine up, I'm just gonna smear some proseal on the fitting instead of trying to drill that microscopic little hole. Furthermore, if this fitting rattled loose then wouldn't you expect all the other fittings that are exposed to much more heat, vibration and pressure to come loose too. I think it's pretty obvious that somebody forgot to tighten things up. On a related note, I notice that no anti-rotation bracket is used on the floptube. I didn't think about it while building, but now wonder how I will tighten the fitting without causing the bulkhead elbow to rotate in the root rib. Anybody have any experience with this?

Regarding removing the cover, I've never tried it but I think either a heat gun or one of those big jumbo soldering irons that plumbers have might be very helpful.

I installed an antirotation bracket for by inverted pickup. I also proseal all fittings inside the fuel tank. If properly torqued this should not be a problem. The fittings inside the tank are susepted to the smallest vibration compared to other fitting in the aircraft. Only downside is if they are are not torqued and allow small leaks one would not know necessarily. Removing the inverted pickup elbow adding the safety wire and then resealing is not only a lot of work but may cause the potential for leaks. Its easier to leave it in place and proseal around it.

Steve
RV7A
 
Van's response to Proseal as an alternative

This is the response I got from Tom Green regarding relying on proseal as an alternative to safety wiring......




VAN?S AIRCRAFT, INC.
14401 NE Keil Road, Aurora, Oregon, USA 97002
PHONE 503-678-6545 ? FAX 503-678-6560 ? www.vansaircraft.com ? [email protected]


2-27-06

Van?s Aircraft has received several questions regarding alternative means of safetying the fasteners affected in SB 06-2-23 (Safetying the Fuel Pickups). While the methods called out in the service bulletin are not the only means to secure these fasteners, Van?s Aircraft feels that they are the best option to achieve the intended result. Van?s Aircraft does not intend to evaluate or recommend other options.


So there you have it. YOU make the call regarding using proseal. There still is the spectre of an insurance policy being null and void should you file a claim as a result of this fitting coming off, having not followed Van's recommendation. We need some input here from the insurance industry.

You out there Jim Pappas??


Regards,
 
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I happened to talk to Tom at Van's early this morning about something else and took the opportunity to ask a few questions about the SB. This is what I got out of the discussion:

1. First and foremost, the SB is a CYA for Van's themselves. It's primary intent is to protect Van's. (That does not mean it is not a good idea though)

2. It is an SB not an AD. No one can force anybody to comply with it. It is up to the manufacturer (you) to decide if and how you will comply with it.

3. He does not see an insurance issue if you don't comply, since compliance with SBs is not mandatory even for certified aircraft under Part 19. (Disclaimer: He is not an insurance expert).

4. The reason they do not support he idea of using Proseal is not because they do not feel it will work if applied properly, but that the application of Proseal can vary greatly and they can only advocate a solution that is virtually foolproof.

5. He also suggested that these AN fittings should be checked at each condition inspection anyway, like any other fitting, and by complying with the SB, this would no longer be necessary. (Great rationalization, but not entirely untrue).

I don't have an issue with the SB since it make some sense and my wings are not yet installed, so it will be faily easy to complete.


YMMV
 
I just removed the sending unit plates from a -4 that has been on there for a number of years to do the SB the plates came off faily well I was helping a friend doing other work so he decided to do it now and be done

Caution: while prying off the plates be carful not to bend the fuel pickup tube like i did not a big deal I will make a new tube.


ken RV-7 flying painting soon
 
What?

ptrotter said:
5. He also suggested that these AN fittings should be checked at each condition inspection anyway, like any other fitting, and by complying with the SB, this would no longer be necessary. (Great rationalization, but not entirely untrue).


YMMV

Yes, and don't forget to pull all the cylinders at every condition inspection to make sure those rod bolt are still properly torqued...! Ha Ha... Just kidding. If he stated this he needs to re-think his maintenance theory IMHO... ;-)
 
curious

Does anyone know how Vans decides to issue a mandatory service bulletin? Was it one incident out of 4000 flying airplanes? Was it a repeated occurance? Or was it mentioned by NTSB in an accident report? It seems that there are a lot of accidents, maybe even some that could have been prevented with a different part or better QC by the builder. I plan to comply with the SB at my annual next month. I'm just curious as to what trips the SB issuance?? :confused:
 
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Build9A said:
Does anyone know how Vans decides to issue a mandatory service bulliten? Was it one incident out of 4000 flying airplanes? Was it a repeated occurance?
While the SB only mentions one incident, two other builders reported somewhat similar events on the RV-List after the SB was released. One was an inverted fuel pickup that came loose. The builder knew he had several gallons of fuel in that tank, so he rationalized that the engine failure couldn't have been caused by fuel starvation, and didn't try changing fuel tanks. He glided to an airport and there was no damage.

Another guy totaled an RV-6 (or -6A) over three years ago when the fuel pickup came loose. So there have been at least three events that I know of. There probably have been more events that we don't know about, as the RV-List only has a small fraction of RV owners on it.
 
an insurance compromise?

It is clear that the companies that insure RV's do so because they make some money doing it, which is fair enough--why else would they provide the service? It is also clear that many RVators like having their RV's insured. And, up to now, both parties have been satisfied with the arrangement.

And, it is obvious that many of us are not eager to comply with this SB. But, we also don't want to risk nullifying our insurance policies(perhaps prompting us to discontinue insurance).

Would it be a reasonable proposal to have a clause in the insurance policy that IF the cause of the accident/claim was proven to be due to failure to comply with a SB, that the insurance policy would be nullified; but IF the cause of the accident/claim was not a result of failure to comply with a SB that the policy would remain in full effect?

Put simply: I'm confident that my fitting won't come unscrewed without a wrench and mallet, and more than willing to place a fair bet. But, I won't stand in line to be cheated.

If this seems a reasonable compromise, maybe a VAF spokesman(hint,hint) could approach the insurance companies.
 
Humorous

I find this thread getting a little humorous based on past threads. I find it ironic that so many RV builders, in prior threads, worship Van and are willing to argue truly minute issues because, "Vans knows what he is doing and is the greatest engineer on the plannet." And now they dig in their heels in when Van comes out and says, "This SB should be completed -- prior to next flight." I guess it is fair to now say that Van only knows what he is talking about when it is convenient for builders.

In my opinion, it doesn't really matter if it is a SB or an AD, if Van says, "Fix it prior to next flight," I think the prudent thing to do is -- fix it before next flight. I guess you can all second guess Van if you want, but then it is your plane and your neck and maybe the neck of a loved one or two.

You can bet that if I were in the market to buy a flying RV (I am not) that some of the first words out of my mouth would be, "Has the pick-up tube SB been completed?"

I think it silly to suggest that builders should negotiation with insurance carriers. Why should a carrier have any interest in talking to a builder or builders about this situation? They get your money now, and if you put it in the ground due to fuel flow issues, you can bet they will hang on to that money as long as possible whether the pick-up tube is the real problem or not. The insurance companies are not there to negotiate away potential problems. They are there to maximize their profits by minimizing their risks. If Van says, "put it in," the insurance companies are going to expect owners to - put it in.

So I guess the bottom line is -- do what you want, it's your plane. But don't think you are going to out-engineer Van or get one over on the insurance companies. If Van says, "fix it," that is the official word, and, in my opinion, the SB should be complied with. If you want to rationalize not doing so, go ahead but then I guess you are saying you know more than Van.
 
I don't think anybody is claiming to know more than Van, but this really isn't some kind of mysterious, complex engineering problem that only an expert can grasp. It's a simple case of a nut not being tightened in the first place. My guess is that standard practice is to inspect all such fittings periodically or safety the ones that can't be inspected (like this one). I'll bet that in this most recent case it was suggested that a better design would have been to wire the thing in the first place. Once Van knows of this situation he's got an ethical obligation to let folks know. the problem is that any advice he gives regarding a fix exposes him to liability. For example, suppose he tells all of us to safety the new ones, but let the old ones ride if we're sure we tightened em. He's the expert, so we follow his advice. Next day somebody has his pickup come loose and balls it up. I wonder who gets a letter on lawyer letterhead. He really has no choice but to tell us all to fix it in the most bulletproof and industry-accepted fashion. I'd be willing to bet Van's does not perform this fix on their personal aircraft prior to next flight.
 
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Started the service bulletin tonight

Although unhappy with the service bulletin I've decided to do it and never have any questions running around in the back of my mind about the fuel pick ups coming loose.

Thought I'd report what it's been like so far. Began at 5:30 p.m. Pulled the wing root fairing on the co-pilot side and drained the gas which was full into four 5 gallon cans. Removed the fuel line and started to loosen the plate. There is no sender on my airplane to fuss with so skipping right to the plate I tried using my right angle ratcheting craftsman screwdriver. With hardly any leverage to hold the screwdriver in the screw heads while laying on my back I rounded the second screw head I tried. Deciding that this tool is worthless a search was on for a phillips bit that was new, a 1/4" socket to hold it and a ratchet. Ah, now here is a setup that works and all but the screw that was rounded out was out in just a few minutes. Now the work could be done from the top which gave more leverage to hold pressure in the screw heads by pushing on the back of the ratchet and out they came. Now there was still the one that was rounded out. Drat... Masking tape over the fuel lines, etc.to shield from metal, and a slot cut into the head of the screw with the dremmol and a cut off wheel. Now a slot bit in the ratchet and the screw came right out. Ah, now to gently work a knife under the plate and gently work the plate off. Here's where I quit after spending about 15 minutes trying to get a start some place with the knife having no luck. Tomorrow is another day and I'll try again, but finding a way to pry under the plate is proving to be the hard part of this bulletin. Once out this should go pretty quickly doing the safetying and re-assembly. At 6:55 I was locking the hanger and heading home. Of the hour and 25 minutes spent to this point about 20 minutes were spent draining fuel, and approx. 10 minutes finding tools and setting up. This service bulletin is certainly worse to think about than to just dig in and get out of the way. ;)

Regards,
 
Bryan Wood said:
Tomorrow is another day and I'll try again, but finding a way to pry under the plate is proving to be the hard part of this bulletin.

Bryan,

I've often used the blades on a good ol' fashioned feeler gauge to get under stuff like this. You've got plenty of em to choose from and they get real thin.
 
ptrotter said
5. He also suggested that these AN fittings should be checked at each condition inspection anyway, like any other fitting, and by complying with the SB, this would no longer be necessary. (Great rationalization, but not entirely untrue).

When asked about tight flare fittings backing off Tom told me the same thing, that Vans "assumed we were checking these fittings at each annual".

This is a legal thing and he was not able to give details (time in service) about previous failures.

George
6A 400hr
7A cowlings
 
I heard an RV owner saying he was thinking about dropping his plane off out back of Van's with about a hundred other RV's.
 
What about Loc-Tite?

Is there a version of Loc-Tite, Permatex or other brand, that would ensure that nut would stay on until we wanted it off? (NOT the permanent stuff) It would have to be OK with gasoline, of course. Why Pro-Seal it if you don't have to? Why disassemble the thing if you don't have to? My wings are still on the stand, so I have time to think about this.
h
 
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