• MAINTAIN SOLID AURAL TONE AOA
Maybe your AOA is different from mine, where a solid tone means I’m at stall speed. A pulsating tone indicates I’m approaching stall.
• MAINTAIN SOLID AURAL TONE AOA
Sunrise Aviation teaches turn around on takeoff to student pilots. The attitude about the turnaround has changed 180 degrees in the last few years. Barry Schiff and his son do forums on this. AOPA recently did a feature article on this recently as well as EAA.
The RV4 guy in FL who has an aural angle of attack system is doing turnarounds with the RV4 from 400'. Videos available.
Sunrise Aviation teaches turn around on takeoff to student pilots. The attitude about the turnaround has changed 180 degrees in the last few years. Barry Schiff and his son do forums on this. AOPA recently did a feature article on this recently as well as EAA.
The RV4 guy in FL who has an aural angle of attack system is doing turnarounds with the RV4 from 400'. Videos available.
The thrust from an idling fixed pitch prop is VASTLY different than real world wildly variable engine out drag possibilities.
I recall a great response from Paul a number of years ago regarding actual stats of turn around attempts vs staright ahead into wind on what ever you can land on. Apart from the stark, blunt truth that the vast majority of actual return to runway attempts end very badly vs mostly straight ahead was the closing line.
Are you feeling lucky?
But practice frequently if you must and hopefully nobody will never attempt the impossible... BS
One of my water flying instructors had over 30,000 hours on type. He taught and practiced the turn back as a part of his standard training. As a result IMHO he had more practice and was more current than anybody has ever been on in that airframe.
A few years ago when the power faded shortly after takeoff on climb out the options were straight ahead onto a four lane /divided highway with 2 lanes going his direction, or the 180 back to the airfield.
He and the student /owner did not survive. They got mostly turned around but stuck the hull deep into the earth and bounced back out several feet.
...and if you read the articles, what you find is that the "impossible turn" is very dependent on the pilot, training, and experience level. Executing a 45-60 degree bank turn at less than 500' for more than 180 degrees to get back to the runway, then an opposite turn to line up, followed by a landing with a tailwind...
I had 800 hours of rv-9a time in the four years going into phase 1. I had a ground brief and BFR with an ATP mentor the week prior. We discussed “flying it into the ground” if needed.
What I didn’t have was:
1. A discipline for 18 gallons each tank for each one hour of flight (each test flight was 1 hr limited)
2. A discipline to use the “S” in GUMPS and CIGARS to always switch on the wig/wag and boost pump switches on t/o and approach
3. Better panel ergonomics so that my engine restart boldface items can be done blindly, by feel, near my thumb and throttle
4. A helmet
I am sorry this debrief caused so much angst and criticism. I am at fault of course. The purpose is just to highlight the importance of the boost pump for those that trained initially in high wing Cessna’s like me, in the prior decades.
And to highlight boldface items can be armchair practiced at home with good effect (I hope).
Circumstances can trap any of us, as the Lake Berryessa crash of the Icon plane showed (http://lakeberryessanews.com/past-stories/final-report-on-icon-a5.html)
Safe flying
Cal
The requirement for the "impossible turn" isn't a squeaker on the centerline.
The goal is survival. Put the airplane down under control, with a reasonable rate of descent, and don't hit anything hard. If you need to perform the "impossible turn" to do that, fine, even if you wipe the gear off in a ditch. Everything better than that is a bonus.
I stand by my post. Most people I have worked with or evaluated over the years would be better off not attempting that turn. I continue to teach it as an illustration of what is required to make it work…
Maybe your AOA is different from mine, where a solid tone means I’m at stall speed. A pulsating tone indicates I’m approaching stall.
I wish there was an industry standard where the tone went from solid to chopped as AOA increases. That is what we had in the A-10. But my Dynon does the opposite...it starts with a chopped tone that increases in frequency until it becomes a solid tone. I might change the wording on this. In and out of the chopped to solid tone would probably be a better way to turn the aircraft with a margin of safety below stall AOA.
Unresolved Discrepancies - Fuel level indicators were non-functional. This technically means you took off in an un-airworthy aircraft per 91.205 Day VFR equipment requirements.
Just for clarification....I've seen this statement at least a couple of times in this thread. Has there been a change in Op Lims recently concerning requirements for instruments? The Op Lims I'm familiar with only reference FAR 91.205 for night or IFR flights. There are no requirements for any instruments in day VFR conditions.....unless there has been a fairly recent change in the limitations that are now issued.
I think the issue is if the equipment is installed it must be operative unless you have a minimum equipment list. ……
Lets look at "the miracle on the Hudson". Did Capt Sully call for a double engine failure on takeoff checklist. I know nothing about the Airbus but it is highly unlikely that a double engine failure on takeoff checklist or procedure even existed.
I have never flown SuzieQ without my helmet. It made perfect sense to me to have one on from the beginning, especially functioning as a test pilot. I would be flying a brand-new, never-been-flown airplane and me, being a (did I mention) test pilot with a lot of hours but not much in the RV series. Obviously, things worked out just fine: we taught each other about what it is like to fly an RV-4. Best-flying airplane on the market...!Anyone wearing helmet? I am getting one after seeing the pilot at WHP getting badly cutup after crash landed his Cessna on the railroad track. The OP had similar head injuries.
How do you see the light if it's under your thumb? With the light that far out of your normal field of view, can it effectively operate as a reminder that it's on? It seems that a light on the panel would be much more effective.The fuel pump is right under my thumb now and given that it lights up when on I can both tactiley and visually confirm if it is on or off.
Almost the same numbers here, and entirely agree with your comments.Hi there.....if it helps I have 23000 hrs and 42 years in aviation and I'm still learning. We study many accidents and incidents during fleet refreshers and emergency procedures requalifications. how we learn is by the sharing of information. sorry to hear of the accident and glad you are ok. It is admirable to share your experience so others can learn. Good on you. Amazingly these issues still occur in 3 hundred million aircraft and above!. human factors...automation...even down to switch placement....still causes incidents and accidents...
Nothing to comment on other than the swiss cheese lined up and you fell through the gap....it happens to the best. Now we have something to consider when setting up our aircraft at your cost....so truly.....thank you for sharing.
Too right. flows are King. I’m right in the middle of that now. Trying to de bus and re Boeing! Lol. Love the Boeing. About to head to the 787 sim so just practiced the flows over and over and over in the inflight procedures trainer along with NNC’s…..love the electronic checklist. That’s a point….is there an electronic checklist available for light aircraft? I have not yet investigated my avionics package yet but wouldn’t that be a great bit of kit.Almost the same numbers here, and entirely agree with your comments.
My 2ct on practice...
Departure:
Boost pump ON prior to the run-up, OFF with the CLIMB Check which happens like 5 miles out and minimum 2K AGL
Arrival:
Triggered by the APPROACH Check, 10 miles out, Boost pump ON
Though I have written checklists off my AFM, I never use them... the paper ones that is. All of them are organized using flow patterns and therefore easy by heart items.
Example, LINE-UP Check, 7 items (no take-off until 7 done):
1 Canopy closed/locked
2 Landing light ON
3 Boost pump ON
4 Mixture RICH
5 Prop FULL RPM (or noise reduction set)
6 Fuel selector SET
7 Flaps SET
So my hand will touch each item whilst counting up, all whilst performing a natural flow for my panel configuration, starting up, then left to right, then down (manual flaps on mine).
Caution, this technique works for me (and has been adopted by a few colleagues around here) and my airplane, but might not be for you. And use the checklist adapted for the aircraft you fly.
There has been plenty of good advice and observations thru this thread, thanks to the OP for his honest sharing, all the best for the future.
my guess is most EFISs offered today provide the option. At least my G3X does, but I'm not using the function since doing the flows works good for me. Besides I sure wanna keep my outside scan in the pattern by doing a quick flow, rather than clicking items off, and respecting a flow... but again, what works for me might not for others.is there an electronic checklist available for light aircraft
Yes we use Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. heavy emphasis on one pilot doing the aviate part….but we are two crew…which is a skill in itself learning to integrate with another pilot. Memory items are in bold also….however with modern multi function displays are becoming fewer and fewer….one day there will be no memory items….just a checklist to tell you what you have not done. Which will be great because although memory items are important and must be well practised for motor skills and instant recall….it’s still relying on memory in a stressful situation.The blind cockpit drill is also used for night operations. In the military, bold face ( emergency procedure actions) are memorized because in an emergency, you’re stressed and it’s time to act and know the correct procedure. During the pre brief…military flight students would have to stand up if called upon and recite the emergency procedure actions, if any part of the response is incorrect, they get a pink slip for the day and do not fly. Another point to emphasize, in any emergency, pause for a few seconds and analyze the emergency. M A T …maintain aircraft control, analyze the situation and take proper action…I have read of 2 instructor pilots with an engine emergency, rush the analysis portion and shut down their only good engine, resulting in a crash…thanks for sharing this post…good for a review for all, even if not in test flight phase….in the next 12 months or so, I hope to do this testing….i didn’t think of it, but I will be wearing one of my flight helmets.
True….I guess I’m talking multi crew environment so a good scan and flows will suffice. Still might investigate the checklist thing though. Love the Boeing ECL…..if it’s green it’s done….and you don’t talk about it….unlike that French thing we used to talk around the sky. I’ll enjoy the line cheers.my guess is most EFISs offered today provide the option. At least my G3X does, but I'm not using the function since doing the flows works good for me. Besides I sure wanna keep my outside scan in the pattern by doing a quick flow, rather than clicking items off, and respecting a flow... but again, what works for me might not for others.
The line-up checklist posted above is my longest one I use. The climb or approach flows only contain 3 items, the run-up 6, and the emergencies maximum 4, but for ditching which has a few more.
PS
Enjoy the line swift12, been ret for a few years now, enjoying every second of it
My preference is to do the run-up with the boost pump off.Almost the same numbers here, and entirely agree with your comments.
My 2ct on practice...
Departure:
Boost pump ON prior to the run-up, OFF with the CLIMB Check which happens like 5 miles out and minimum 2K AGL
Arrival:
Triggered by the APPROACH Check, 10 miles out, Boost pump ON
Though I have written checklists off my AFM, I never use them... the paper ones that is. All of them are organized using flow patterns and therefore easy by heart items.
Example, LINE-UP Check, 7 items (no take-off until 7 done):
1 Canopy closed/locked
2 Landing light ON
3 Boost pump ON
4 Mixture RICH
5 Prop FULL RPM (or noise reduction set)
6 Fuel selector SET
7 Flaps SET
So my hand will touch each item whilst counting up, all whilst performing a natural flow for my panel configuration, starting up, then left to right, then down (manual flaps on mine).
Caution, this technique works for me (and has been adopted by a few colleagues around here) and my airplane, but might not be for you. And use the checklist adapted for the aircraft you fly.
There has been plenty of good advice and observations thru this thread, thanks to the OP for his honest sharing, all the best for the future.
Pretty much exactly what I do. My list is on my knee board but I have used it for so long I never look at it. It has been committed to my memory and is both muscle and mind memory. And I say it out loud, whether someone is with me or not. It's like words to a song I have sang for decades. And I've never forgotten a step!Though I have written checklists off my AFM, I never use them... the paper ones that is. All of them are organized using flow patterns and therefore easy by heart items.
Example, LINE-UP Check, 7 items (no take-off until 7 done):
1 Canopy closed/locked
2 Landing light ON
3 Boost pump ON
4 Mixture RICH
5 Prop FULL RPM (or noise reduction set)
6 Fuel selector SET
7 Flaps SET
So my hand will touch each item whilst counting up, all whilst performing a natural flow for my panel configuration, starting up, then left to right, then down (manual flaps on mine).
The blind cockpit drill is also used for night operations. In the military, bold face ( emergency procedure actions) are memorized because in an emergency, you’re stressed and it’s time to act and know the correct procedure. During the pre brief…military flight students would have to stand up if called upon and recite the emergency procedure actions, if any part of the response is incorrect, they get a pink slip for the day and do not fly. Another point to emphasize, in any emergency, pause for a few seconds and analyze the emergency. M A T …maintain aircraft control, analyze the situation and take proper action…I have read of 2 instructor pilots with an engine emergency, rush the analysis portion and shut down their only good engine, resulting in a crash…thanks for sharing this post…good for a review for all, even if not in test flight phase….in the next 12 months or so, I hope to do this testing….i didn’t think of it, but I will be wearing one of my flight helmets.
Absolutely do the run-up with the boost pump off. How else would you verify that the mech pump is actually pumping?My preference is to do the run-up with the boost pump off...........
I see the value in testing without the boost pump on. Is there not value in leaving the configuration you had during the runup the same as during the takeoff? Since I'm going to take off with the boost pump on, I like to do the runup with the boost pump on. I've tested the mechanical during taxi, although that's certainly not full power. I wonder if testing boost both on and off during the runup would be best?Absolutely do the run-up with the boost pump off. How else would you verify that the mech pump is actually pumping?