Factory Info: Parts with Laser Cut Holes and Potential for Cracks

[Cameltron]

MY RV12is empenage kit is due to ship Wednesday with about 20 or so "backordered" parts. All of these parts show as available on the webstore, apparently they are all laser cut parts that are being held up due to testing.

I was unaware that the RV-12is had any laser cut parts that could be an issue due to it's exclusion from the published affected parts lists.

 

[Tlrguy]

Did they? Or did they simply receive parts as they came in and add them to the stock of what they add, essentially "parts is parts"?

The only items I saw on my build with a serial number on them were the wing spars and carry-throughs. Everything else had no identifying information whatsoever, not even a lot number.

This is my exact point.

We as a critical thinking species have the ability to control every aspect of our lives, including the decisions we choose to make, or in this case, choose not to make.

It is what it is at this point.

 

[RV7A Flyer]

This is my exact point.

We as a critical thinking species have the ability to control every aspect of our lives, including the decisions we choose to make, or in this case, choose not to make.

It is what it is at this point.

I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that Van's had the capability *in place* to track every part, but chose not to use it. It seems you were trying to say that they had the *ability* to *put such a system in place*, but didn't.

 

[Jonnyb]

I'm not showing anything new that hasn't been shown in this thread previously, but since you asked... here's a wide shot of one rib on the rv14 baggage floor and every dimple on this one has a minor crack. Then I've included some closeups taken with my phone so they're not the best quality. What to look for??? Well, it's pretty easy to spot with a magnifying glass, as the crack will be at exactly the same point on each dimple (ie where the laser started/stopped).

Whilst they're small, they're there and if it were only a few I'd probably live with it, but this row is full of cracks and there's probably another 100 more in the floor area. Interestingly the sides of the QB fuselage all look ok.

Cheers Steve. Photos are really useful in trying to understand what I’m looking for in parts I’ve already done.

 

[DSmith]

It seems we already have a bunch of Vans Service Bulletins for cracks in the structure traveling out from rivets that we have to inspect and install fixes for. If someone decides that many of these pieces with cracks are not a problem, how long will it be before you are dealing with Service Bulletins to fix them.

I don't have a dog in this fight but you guys dealing with this problem could end up with an airplane that no one wants! I frankly can't see what is taking Vans so long to come up with a solution.

 

[cessna1tengobravo]

Recent Empannage Kit

Just an update that I hope maybe useful to those who recently purchased and are waiting for their kits. My RV14A empennage kit (ordered 6/2) arrived on Tuesday (8/22) and appears to not have any laser cut parts (everything has blue plastic wrap on it). There were 31 back ordered pieces:

F-01486C-L J-Stiffener QTY: 1
F-01486C-R J-Stiffener QTY: 1
F-01410 Bulkhead QTY: 1
F-01411A Bulkhead QTY: 1
F-01411B Bulkhead QTY: 1
VS-705 Nose Rib QTY: 1
R-912 Rud. Ctr Bal QTY: 1
VS-704 Root Rib QTY: 1
VS-706 Tip Rib QTY: 1
VS-707 Tip Rib QTY: 1
E-903 Elev. Tip Rib QTY: 2
E-905 Lft Elev. Rib QTY: 1
R-903 Rud. Top Rib QTY: 1
E-1008 Elev. Rib QTY: 12
E-01402 Elev. Trim Cvr QTY: 1
E-904 Elev. Tip Rib QTY: 2
F-01412A Bulkhead QTY: 1
F-01412B Bulkhead QTY: 1

 

[DonMcKee]

My RV14A empennage kit (ordered 6/2) arrived on Tuesday (8/22) and appears to not have any laser cut parts (everything has blue plastic wrap on it).

My RV-14A emp/tailcone kit arrived 08/16/23, and contained 3 laser-cut parts (all rudder stiffeners):

R-00915D-1
R-00915F-1
R-00915G-1

These are all marked "Yellow - currently testing, will be replaced" on the laser-cut parts list, so I was a little surprised/disappointed to find them.

BTW, my fuselage kit arrived 08/14/23, and contained 7 laser-cut parts. However, these were all marked "green" on the LCP list (non-structural, no dimpled holes, etc.).

 

[msires]

My RV-10 empennage kit shipped yesterday (yeah! I ordered it last November). I'll post after I do the inventory as to whether it had any laser cut parts. The invoice indicates 14 back ordered parts, but I have not checked them against the laser cut 'to be replaced' list yet.

 

[lr172]

It seems we already have a bunch of Vans Service Bulletins for cracks in the structure traveling out from rivets that we have to inspect and install fixes for. If someone decides that many of these pieces with cracks are not a problem, how long will it be before you are dealing with Service Bulletins to fix them.

I don't have a dog in this fight but you guys dealing with this problem could end up with an airplane that no one wants! I frankly can't see what is taking Vans so long to come up with a solution.

more apples compared to oranges. IIRC, EVERY SB for cracks emanating from a rivet hole are for non-dimpled holes. I don't disagree with your concern, but do disagree that the dimpled joints will be the ones that fail. The integrity of the metal at the OD of the fastener hole is FAR more important for a std joint than a dimpled joint.

Larry

 

[willscaringe]

My RV-14A emp/tailcone kit arrived 08/16/23, and contained 3 laser-cut parts (all rudder stiffeners):

R-00915D-1
R-00915F-1
R-00915G-1

These are all marked "Yellow - currently testing, will be replaced" on the laser-cut parts list, so I was a little surprised/disappointed to find them.

BTW, my fuselage kit arrived 08/14/23, and contained 7 laser-cut parts. However, these were all marked "green" on the LCP list (non-structural, no dimpled holes, etc.).

Be happy you are getting any non-LCPs and that you haven't already built your rudder with LCPs. A lot of people, including myself, who ordered/received kits earlier with LCPs can't yet even order replacement parts.

 

[bertschb]

...My RV14A empennage kit (ordered 6/2) arrived on Tuesday (8/22)...

Dang! I ordered my empennage kit on 3/9/23 and made final payment on 7/19.23. Crickets...

 

[Nashpdman]

Hey veteran builders, question. In the absence of LCP’s, how many dimpled rivets crack? Do any of them crack? I’m assuming, just based on stress and the number of rivets, that occasionally you’d get one, but really have no idea.
I spent today examining my 10 QB fuse and wings in great detail, with a cheap (but worked great!) microscope from Amazon. Obviously I wanted to identify LCP’s or cracks. In the end, after looking at every visible rivet, I found 3 rivets that look suspicious; I may be looking too close. I do not believe there are any LCP. I found using the microscope you could clearly see the difference (punched/LCP’s) in the edges of the parts. See pics. Thanks!


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PVMRZQH?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

 

[dmattmul]

Hey veteran builders, question. In the absence of LCP’s, how many dimpled rivets crack? Do any of them crack? I’m assuming, just based on stress and the number of rivets, that occasionally you’d get one, but really have no idea.
I spent today examining my 10 QB fuse and wings in great detail, with a cheap (but worked great!) microscope from Amazon. Obviously I wanted to identify LCP’s or cracks. In the end, after looking at every visible rivet, I found 3 rivets that look suspicious; I may be looking too close. I do not believe there are any LCP. I found using the microscope you could clearly see the difference (punched/LCP’s) in the edges of the parts. See pics. Thanks!


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PVMRZQH?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

When did you receive your QB wings and Fuse? What where the dates on them from Exemplar?

 

[skelrad]

Hey veteran builders, question. In the absence of LCP’s, how many dimpled rivets crack? Do any of them crack? I’m assuming, just based on stress and the number of rivets, that occasionally you’d get one, but really have no idea.
I spent today examining my 10 QB fuse and wings in great detail, with a cheap (but worked great!) microscope from Amazon. Obviously I wanted to identify LCP’s or cracks. In the end, after looking at every visible rivet, I found 3 rivets that look suspicious;

I've definitely had some punched hole dimples crack, even after very careful reaming and deburring. I'd sleep just fine having found only 3 on an entire fuselage (you can still fix them of course). I'd be willing to bet there are many, many planes from the punched hole era that are flying around with more cracked dimples than that, just because up until now, nobody has taken the time to look at every dimple under high magnification.

 

[Nashpdman]

When did you receive your QB wings and Fuse? What where the dates on them from Exemplar?

Ordered all kits 7/21. Received empennage 6/22, it has a couple LCPs. Received the wings 4/23, dates on the tags are 12/23/23 & 12/22/23. Received the fuse 5/23, date on tag is 1/27/23. Both are from Flyer.

 

[Nashpdman]

I've definitely had some punched hole dimples crack, even after very careful reaming and deburring. I'd sleep just fine having found only 3 on an entire fuselage (you can still fix them of course). I'd be willing to bet there are many, many planes from the punched hole era that are flying around with more cracked dimples than that, just because up until now, nobody has taken the time to look at every dimple under high magnification.

Agree! Once you focus on something it's hard not to notice...

 

[Jack_G_S]

For those who still think that match drilling undersized holes will remove the “feature” and prevent cracking. I can say, that is not the case (as others have stated).

I took one of the best looking laser cut parts I had. Match drilled it with a reamer, properly deburred, and dimpled it. Of the 12 holes I did, I noticed 4 cracked holes.

If Van’s is going to stick with “cracks are ok”, they really need to change chapter 5 to that affect. They can’t just verbally say cracks are ok but leave chapter 5 saying they aren’t, or that we need to file out up to 1/3 of each dimple.

 

[Blw2]

I'm still wondering for discussion purposes, if you were to anneal the part before reaming and de-burring would it still crack?
but then I suppose would you need to re-temper the aluminum after, right?...kinda making this idea not practical I suppose....

 

[Jonnyb]

For those who still think that match drilling undersized holes will remove the “feature” and prevent cracking. I can say, that is not the case (as others have stated).

I took one of the best looking laser cut parts I had. Match drilled it with a reamer, properly deburred, and dimpled it. Of the 12 holes I did, I noticed 4 cracked holes.

If Van’s is going to stick with “cracks are ok”, they really need to change chapter 5 to that affect. They can’t just verbally say cracks are ok but leave chapter 5 saying they aren’t, or that we need to file out up to 1/3 of each dimple.

They have changed section 5. The part you’re after is on page 05-09.

 

[Jack_G_S]

They have changed section 5. The part you’re after is on page 05-09.

That doesn’t say cracks are ok. That revision is just an attempt to reduce liability. Now it’s your fault if you didn’t file out up to 1/3 of the dimple.

It’s a poor solution to a problem which highlights that they knew about it for a long time.

 

[deMan]

I'm still wondering for discussion purposes, if you were to anneal the part before reaming and de-burring would it still crack?
but then I suppose would you need to re-temper the aluminum after, right?...kinda making this idea not practical I suppose....

Unless Vans does it for you like with ribs that they have heat treated before punching.

 

[Pelley]

I'm still wondering for discussion purposes, if you were to anneal the part before reaming and de-burring would it still crack?
but then I suppose would you need to re-temper the aluminum after, right?...kinda making this idea not practical I suppose....

I don’t think this would make a difference. The hardening is caused by precipitates in the molten aluminum which would still be there. Annealing would typically take care of work hardening or make the material more ductile for bending. As I understand it, it would not eliminate the brittle precipitates from the HAZ.

 

[Walt D]

2nd on the microscope!

Hey veteran builders, question. In the absence of LCP’s, how many dimpled rivets crack? Do any of them crack? I’m assuming, just based on stress and the number of rivets, that occasionally you’d get one, but really have no idea.
I spent today examining my 10 QB fuse and wings in great detail, with a cheap (but worked great!) microscope from Amazon. Obviously I wanted to identify LCP’s or cracks. In the end, after looking at every visible rivet, I found 3 rivets that look suspicious; I may be looking too close. I do not believe there are any LCP. I found using the microscope you could clearly see the difference (punched/LCP’s) in the edges of the parts. See pics. Thanks!


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PVMRZQH?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

This is a great little microscope! Thanks for the suggestion. Too good, I think. Now we're all looking at things few builders ever see. I have a lot of laser cut parts in my wing kit. The kit had a lot of back ordered ribs that I think were done fairly early after the laser processing started. They all look as good as other parts that were definitely done with punching, after dimpling and riveting. Maybe this means I did a poor job of deburring but at this point it's hard for me to say that LCPs are fundamentally unsuited for the application.

 

[Warp10]

I don’t think this would make a difference. The hardening is caused by precipitates in the molten aluminum which would still be there. Annealing would typically take care of work hardening or make the material more ductile for bending. As I understand it, it would not eliminate the brittle precipitates from the HAZ.

Laser drilling or cutting is very complex on Aluminum, Titanium and other alloys that precipitate during the re-solidification after laser melting. I assume the equipment used a inert gas blanket to eliminate oxidation, but that HAZ zone is brittle and will crack.

Not sure if post Laser drilling if there is a heat treat that would resolution the HAZ????

 

[scsmith]

I don’t think this would make a difference. The hardening is caused by precipitates in the molten aluminum which would still be there. Annealing would typically take care of work hardening or make the material more ductile for bending. As I understand it, it would not eliminate the brittle precipitates from the HAZ.

Actually the precipitates do go back into solution in a proper heating process, not annealing, but called "solution treatment". After solution treatment, a precipitation hardening process may either be done by natural aging or by age-hardening heat treatment, depending on alloy, production demands, etc.

A solution treatment and age-hardening cycle can, in fact remove almost all the issues of a heat-affected zone associated with laser cutting, or welding, or other high-temperature processes, depending on the specific details of the alloy.

 

[Tlrguy]

Little quiet lately

This thread seems to have gone dark. I know the builders affected by LCP are pretty beat down and ready to move forward.

Here we are just days away from what I presume will be a path forward. What are the thoughts from my fellow builders of kits containing LCP?

I’ll start off by saying we have been prepped to hear that cracks are not an issue and that non LCP, if needed to rebuild components, will not just be handed out.

 

[gotyoke]

For me, quiet = patience. Also I'm trying not to dwell. Also, I anticipate "just days away" still means weeks.

At this point I agree Van's is signaling that minor cracking found at every single hole in many assemblies will not degrade the life of the plane. I hope, in the case of the -14, they are testing at aerobatic loads. And I hope they will show us close-up pictures of the quality of the holes they are testing to show they are doing worst-case tests. I will NOT be replacing all the ribs in my wing. I will abandon my project first.

My main concern is resale...not that I expect to sell it for another 2-3 decades. But, I am sinking a good amount of equity into this thing, and I plan to take care of it, so some return is expected. I wish I didn't have to take a gamble on whether a solid plane has no resale value because of LCPs.

 

[Cessnadog]

I got lucky and confirmed that my QB wings are LCP free, so I have been back in the shop working on those. That is a GREAT help in me being able to stay off this board, or at least not be vocal on it.

I expect Vans will still replaces any and all LCP’s that folks want replaced, no matter what the testing finds. As a guy who has a empennage together, and fuselage partially assembled, I will need to balance the time to disassemble vs the results of the testing. I have already decided that I will rebuild most of my tail fins as they have suspect spars in them and it isn’t worth the risk.

Agree we are getting close to an answer, Wonder how long it will take to get our parts?

 

[msires]

For me, quiet = patience. Also I'm trying not to dwell. Also, I anticipate "just days away" still means weeks.

At this point I agree Van's is signaling that minor cracking found at every single hole in many assemblies will not degrade the life of the plane. I hope, in the case of the -14, they are testing at aerobatic loads. And I hope they will show us close-up pictures of the quality of the holes they are testing to show they are doing worst-case tests. I will NOT be replacing all the ribs in my wing. I will abandon my project first.

My main concern is resale...not that I expect to sell it for another 2-3 decades. But, I am sinking a good amount of equity into this thing, and I plan to take care of it, so some return is expected. I wish I didn't have to take a gamble on whether a solid plane has no resale value because of LCPs.

If after 2-3 decades, and no issues due to LCP have occurred, I don't think there would be any reasonable concern on a buyers part. I doubt if anyone ever remembers it at that point, provided no fleet wide issues have occurred.

 

[bertschb]

Here we are just days away from what I presume will be a path forward. What are the thoughts from my fellow builders of kits containing LCP?

Based on what I've learned about timeline estimates from Vans (e.g. new wingtip lights and Beringer packages will be available in late March or early April and six months later there is still no word on when they will actually be available), I would guess it will be several months before we have final testing results and website changes to allow ordering of replacement parts.

Posts have slowed down because there is nothing new to discuss until testing is complete or we can order replacement parts.

Like others, I've put my build on the back burner and I've moved on to something else.

 

[dstates]

Posts have slowed down because there is nothing new to discuss until testing is complete or we can order replacement parts.

Like others, I've put my build on the back burner and I've moved onto something else.

I agree... I started tearing down an engine to overhaul for my Cessna 170. I just can't justify continuing to work on my 14 much where I am at in the build. I need replacement parts.

 

[Jack_G_S]

…
My main concern is resale...not that I expect to sell it for another 2-3 decades. But, I am sinking a good amount of equity into this thing, and I plan to take care of it, so some return is expected. I wish I didn't have to take a gamble on whether a solid plane has no resale value because of LCPs.

My main concern is, what if testing is inadequate and this becomes an AD in a few years? Then who is left holding the bag? It appears Van’s doesn’t mind kicking the can down the road.

 

[jrs14855]

AD

No AD's on EAB Aircraft. Only on engines, etc.

 

[RV7A Flyer]

No AD's on EAB Aircraft. Only on engines, etc.

Semantics. SBs then.

 

[RV8JD]

My main concern is, what if testing is inadequate and this becomes an AD in a few years? Then who is left holding the bag? It appears Van’s doesn’t mind kicking the can down the road.

No AD's on EAB Aircraft. Only on engines, etc.

I think he probably (or should have) meant SB's from Van's due to cracking, like all the other cracking SB's out there for other models.

 

[Jack_G_S]

No AD's on EAB Aircraft. Only on engines, etc.

It’s my understanding that is only partially true. ADs do apply to experimental aircraft if stated so in the AD

From kitplanes.com “the FAA has said clearly that ADs do not apply unless Experimentals are specifically called out in the AD as being covered. No such ADs have been issued with this requirement as of this writing.”

 

[jimbom]

I got lucky and confirmed that my QB wings are LCP free, so I have been back in the shop working on those.

How did you confirm that all the internal parts, particularly fuel tank internals are punched parts? When were your wings delivered and where were they fab’d?

 

[RV8JD]

It’s my understanding that is only partially true. ADs do apply to experimental aircraft if stated so in the AD

From kitplanes.com “the FAA has said clearly that ADs do not apply unless Experimentals are specifically called out in the AD as being covered. No such ADs have been issued with this requirement as of this writing.”

Yes, AD's can apply to Experimental airplanes, but usually only on "engines, propellers, and appliances installed thereon".

Ref: https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC 39-7D.pdf

From the FAA AC:

"b. Non-TC’d Aircraft and Products Installed Thereon. Non-TC’d aircraft
(e.g., amateur-built aircraft, experimental exhibition) are aircraft for which the FAA has not issued a TC under part 21. The AD applicability statement will identify if the AD applies to non-TC’d aircraft or engines, propellers, and appliances installed thereon. The following are examples of applicability statements for ADs related to non-TC’d aircraft:

(1) “This AD applies to Honeywell International Inc. Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) models GTCP36-150(R) and GTCP36-150(RR). These APUs are installed on, but not limited to, Fokker Services B.V. Model F.28 Mark 0100 and F.28 Mark 0070 airplanes, and Mustang Aeronautics, Inc. Model Mustang II experimental airplanes. This AD applies to any aircraft with the listed APU models installed.” This statement makes the AD applicable to the listed auxiliary power unit (APU) models installed on TC’d aircraft, as well as non-TC’d aircraft.

(2) “This AD applies to Lycoming Engines Models AEIO-360-A1A and IO-360-A1A. This AD applies to any aircraft with the listed engine models installed.” This statement makes the AD applicable to the listed engine models installed on TC’d and non-TC’d aircraft."​

Van's would, and have, issue SB's on airframe cracking issues that they feel is, or can be, a safety issue.

As a side note, in the early 2000's the Zodiac CH 601 XL and CH 650 airplanes exhibited aileron flutter and design strength issues leading to several fatal accidents. The FAA did an in-depth review of the design and worked with the Zenith to affect design changes. Here is a link to the January 2010 Special Review Team report:

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/aircraft/gen_av/light_sport/Zodiac.pdf

From the Conclusions:

"The FAA has taken steps to notify the public of the safety related issues with this design and called for owners and operators to make modifications to their aircraft as proposed by the manufacturer. On November 7, 2009, the FAA issued SAIB CE-10-08 to inform owners and operators of potential safety issues with the CH 601 XL and CH 650. The FAA also issued an action November 12, 2009 to cease issuance of new airworthiness certificates until the safety related issues are addressed. Concurrently, AMD issued a safety directive for the S-LSA versions of the CH 601 XL and CH 650 to address the situation and to communicate details of modifications required before further flight. Zenith Aircraft also communicated similar information to owners and operators of experimental versions of the CH 601 XL and CH 650.
......

With type-certificated aircraft, airworthiness standards play an important role in establishing an acceptable level of safety. The special review team recognizes that if this were a 14 CFR part 23 type-certificated aircraft, it is likely the FAA would have taken airworthiness directive action to address an unsafe condition. Similarly, the consensus standards play an important role in establishing an acceptable level of safety for S-LSA aircraft. Manufacturer’s safety directives are used to address S-LSA safety issues.

However, with experimental amateur-built aircraft, the aircraft’s design need not meet either airworthiness or consensus standards. Instead, the operating limitations play an important role in establishing the appropriate level of safety for these aircraft. Without design standards for amateur-built aircraft, it is difficult to determine whether in-service airworthiness concerns warrant FAA action."​

So even in this rather severe case the FAA did not issue an AD on the airframe.

 

[Jack_G_S]

…
So even in this rather severe case the FAA did not issue an AD on the airframe.

Not saying it is likely. But, if I asked you 2 years ago how likely it would be that Van’s would tell us that high rates of cracked dimples is ok, what would you have said?

 

[jrs14855]

AD's

In the type certificated world SB's are only mandatory on aircraft used for commercial purposes.
In the EAB world if you remove the manufacturers data plate from an engine or other component, AD's on that item no longer apply. Likewise if you create your own data plate.

 

[Jack_G_S]

In the type certificated world SB's are only mandatory on aircraft used for commercial purposes.
In the EAB world if you remove the manufacturers data plate from an engine or other component, AD's on that item no longer apply. Likewise if you create your own data plate.

Maybe I was naive in thinking most pilots are safety conscious. I didn’t think building an experimental aircraft meant throwing all caution to the wind.

 

[jrs14855]

AD's

Not throwing caution to the wind. Simply a look at the real world. Some of the top engine builders create their own data plates.

 

[Jack_G_S]

This discussion is regarding experimental aircraft airframe ADs. Which from my understanding is possible but has never happened. If it were to happen you couldn’t simply ignore it. But a better question would be, why would you?

 

[Cessnadog]

How did you confirm that all the internal parts, particularly fuel tank internals are punched parts? When were your wings delivered and where were they fab’d?

I was able to confirm that the parts for my wings were shipped to the Philippines in November of 2021. Since the first laser cut parts were not in inventory until January of 2022…

 

[ccarlson]

This thread seems to have gone dark. I know the builders affected by LCP are pretty beat down and ready to move forward.

After four months of zero progress in my build, I am definitely feeling a certain sort of way. It is a struggle to stay positive when simple things like a promised factory follow-up to certain questions do not happen. The next scheduled update (on or before Sep 5) can't come soon enough. I am patient, but my patience is not endless.

The things that concern me most are:

1 - Once the replacement parts portal is available, how long will it take for ordered parts to be delivered? Am I looking at another 6-8 months before I can build? Longer?

2 - I think Vans has said they will replace laser cut parts at no cost, but they have not indicated a position on shipping costs for those parts.

I have at least 316 laser cut parts across my empennage, wing, and fuselage kits. I checked Vans store for the prices of each part, and I have an approximate replacement cost projection of $4,430.27 + shipping. Many of the parts are of significant size, so my best guess on crating & shipping is likely $800-$1000.

While doing my LCP inventory, I noted some possible anomalies in Rev 3 of the RV-14 parts list. Specifically:

E-920 — This does not appear to be an RV-14 part.

W-1010 variants - If I am understanding part numbers correctly, these ribs (or their close relatives?) appear to be listed twice in the RV-14 LCP list. I am not sure if that is a mistake or not?

W-1010-L-1 & W-1010-R-1: cannot find these in my RV-14 parts list, but I do see them in Vans' store.

W-1010-L and W-1010-R: one each in my RV-14 wing kit, cannot find either of them in Vans' store.

If anyone would clarify re: E-920 and the W-1010 variants, I would appreciate it.

 

[Bullpup]

After four months of zero progress in my build, I am definitely feeling a certain sort of way. It is a struggle to stay positive when simple things like a promised factory follow-up to certain questions do not happen. The next scheduled update (on or before Sep 5) can't come soon enough. I am patient, but my patience is not endless.

The things that concern me most are:

1 - Once the replacement parts portal is available, how long will it take for ordered parts to be delivered? Am I looking at another 6-8 months before I can build? Longer?

2 - I think Vans has said they will replace laser cut parts at no cost, but they have not indicated a position on shipping costs for those parts.

I have at least 316 laser cut parts across my empennage, wing, and fuselage kits. I checked Vans store for the prices of each part, and I have an approximate replacement cost projection of $4,430.27 + shipping. Many of the parts are of significant size, so my best guess on crating & shipping is likely $800-$1000.

While doing my LCP inventory, I noted some possible anomalies in Rev 3 of the RV-14 parts list. Specifically:

E-920 — This does not appear to be an RV-14 part.

W-1010 variants - If I am understanding part numbers correctly, these ribs (or their close relatives?) appear to be listed twice in the RV-14 LCP list. I am not sure if that is a mistake or not?

W-1010-L-1 & W-1010-R-1: cannot find these in my RV-14 parts list, but I do see them in Vans' store.

W-1010-L and W-1010-R: one each in my RV-14 wing kit, cannot find either of them in Vans' store.

If anyone would clarify re: E-920 and the W-1010 variants, I would appreciate it.

The persistent errors in the affected parts list are not encouraging, to say the least.

 

[RBR]

As I understand it, a -1 part has superseded the previous part number.

 

[Brantel]

I was able to confirm that the parts for my wings were shipped to the Philippines in November of 2021. Since the first laser cut parts were not in inventory until January of 2022…

Yeah but when was your QB shipped from the Philippines? Greg stated at Osh that there was no way for them to know what parts went into what QB after the containers arrived there. There was no guarantee that it was FIFO.

In my mind, any QB that shipped from the Philippines after the first LCP’s arrived there are suspect all the way up to when Vans told them to stop using them.

 

[Tlrguy]

I have at least 316 laser cut parts across my empennage, wing, and fuselage kits. I checked Vans store for the prices of each part, and I have an approximate replacement cost projection of $4,430.27 + shipping. Many of the parts are of significant size, so my best guess on crating & shipping is likely $800-$1000.

Such an insignificant dollar amount all things considered. I tallied up everything I need to remove LCP and it’s only 337 parts for a grand RETAIL total of $6100. If Vans only makes 10% on the sale of a full RV10 kit, they are still making money off my original purchase price. I already bought the parts once (and spent 700 hours building with affected parts), and don’t expect to buy anything a second time around. Call me crazy!?

 

[N82VM]

Not 337 parts, but 50+. I stopped building pretty quickly so I have 40+ LCP never touched. I ordered $120 worth of associated parts that were connected to LCP parts already put together. Hoping to expedite building by having them ready to go. At the time they had not announced the “significant” discount on associated parts. Not hoping to recoup any of that because I did that on my own. However, in absolutely NO WAY will it be acceptable to make a customer pay to ship the LCP replacement parts. Sorry Van but my opinion is that you’re gonna need to eat the entire sandwich not just a corner bite.