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DeltaHawk for RV-14

So, point us to data or links, please. ("especially the very real and spectacular reasons") some know the truth???
Sorry mate, no links and no data in the public arena. And no names either, they are too well known world wide, but you only need to know that the published press releases were a diplomatic retraction from all the hype for very good reasons.

Cessna to their credit did a very thorough job, and there was no way they could make it work and sell it. If they could have they would have because they bet the house on that project and to retreat was a big pill to swallow. With the published material alone you can join the dots and work it out yourself (and my post above which tells you all you need to know) that this was not a paint peeling off problem.

My apologies for not being able to fully answer your question, but I have to respect NDAs from some and just the level of trust I get from several big companies and I am not throwing any of them under the proverbial bus. I hope you will understand.
 
Sorry for the lack of postings lately. Been Busy getting ready for Air Venture.

I am flying out tomorrow to meet with the DeltaHawk folks in Racine, and plan to fly the DH Cirrus before heading to Oshkosh. Going to check out their test pilot in my RV14 as well so when he comes out to Eugene for the RV14 DeltaHawk flights he is familiar with the plane.

The DHK200 is currently mounted to the fuselage and the cowling has been fitted. All will be ready to show next week at DeltaHawk's tent. I plan to be at DeltaHawk's tent everyday, and hope to meet some of you then.
 
Very exciting and lots of progress keep us posted and if you can post any pictures here while you are at Oshkosh that would be greatly appreciate. Good luck. What are your thoughts on the progress being made?
 
Over eastern Oregon this morning. Nice weather but no tailwind - bummer.
 

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Arrived in Racine Thursday afternoon and after successfully navigating the TFR (Republican Convention) headed directly to DeltaHawk’s hangar. The DeltaHawk/RV14 was already wrapped and loaded on the trailer for the 90 min drive to AirVenture.

Met lots of the folks w DeltaHawk. Very sharpe group. Also met their two test pilots - Danny and Victor. Checked out Danny in my RV14 as he’ll be coming out to Eugene to do the initial few hours on the DH/RV14. Victor is heading the testing on the Velocity. Wish I had recorded its departure to OSH this morning as it sounds awesome.

This morning we did a tour of the DeltaHawk HQ and production facilities (across the field from the hangar). They are working on some interesting things that I am sworn to secrecy on. Nice set-up and more very sharp people.

Dawn (my better half) and I are now kicking back at a marina for lunch overlooking the lake and contemplating our plans for the weekend which will end with us being at AirVenture sometime Monday morning. I’ll post additional updates from there more focused on development news on the engine.
 

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Craig thanks for all the updates, looking forward to some pictures of your plane. Changing the subject, have you given any thoughts on fuel caps. I was looking at the Newton A508L 3” Locking 8 bolt hole and was wondering if the would fit on the wings.
 
Craig thanks for all the updates, looking forward to some pictures of your plane. Changing the subject, have you given any thoughts on fuel caps. I was looking at the Newton A508L 3” Locking 8 bolt hole and was wondering if the would fit on the wings

Doubtful, these wings most likely fit the Newton SPRL 66mm aluminum (and plastic) caps which do come in a locking (Not the plastic ones) and non-locking version. Also, Aéroport Products makes a nice aluminum cap but not locking. The Newton A508L I'm pretty sure has an opening for 100LL also. Not sure what cap is needed for Jet A.

 
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Craig with the jet a fuel nozzles don’t we need a bigger opening so I was wondering what you will be using as fuel caps

Unfortunately (?) we had the wings built before the DeltaHawk project gained momentum. So, likely we’ll be using an adaptor for filling the tanks. I’ll get a pic and post it this week (just saw the one the DeltaHawk guys use to fill the Cirrus yesterday). That said, if we have time, we may try to install a dedicated filler orifice - but, bear in mind that whilst the certified guys are only approved for JetA, us experimental guys can burn diesel (as you would in your truck). The nozzles for these also differ from each other. Frankly, I likely won’t have a firm recommendation until I’ve been flying the plane for a bit.
 
Unfortunately (?) we had the wings built before the DeltaHawk project gained momentum. So, likely we’ll be using an adaptor for filling the tanks. I’ll get a pic and post it this week (just saw the one the DeltaHawk guys use to fill the Cirrus yesterday). That said, if we have time, we may try to install a dedicated filler orifice - but, bear in mind that whilst the certified guys are only approved for JetA, us experimental guys can burn diesel (as you would in your truck). The nozzles for these also differ from each other. Frankly, I likely won’t have a firm recommendation until I’ve been flying the plane for a bit.
I agree, will have to use an adapter one or the other if you plan to run both JetA and diesel
 
Settled into Oshkosh finally!
Sunday night I managed to score a nice Airbnb basement within .5 miles of the field, so Dawn and I are not commuting back and forth each day as expected. The airbnb has two bikes so the 1/2 mile is a breeze! All that said, I’m a little disappointed as I was looking forward to exploring a different field each evening and hoping we’d find a gem or two. We did spend the weekend in Madison/Middleton WI and it was great. Reasonable hotel rates and good food. Beautiful area.

On the DeltaHawk front…

Making progress but the plane isn’t as far along as we wanted it to be for AirVenture - some of the parts arrived too late for everything to get bolted on before sending it off to the show. Even less than sharp observers will see from the pics below that the turbo and most of the plumbing isnt attached. After the show, the fuse/engine will head back to Racine for them to finish the install. Synergy will send one of their guys out to get the cowling on proper. I’m estimating we’ll see the whole assembly back to Eugene by about the first week of September. Final assembly will then take about 4-6 weeks and then we’ll begin flying.

Incidentally, when the plane (N245WM) begins flying - we will be in construction on a second DeltaHawk RV14 that will incorporate a few modifications/improvements that should trim a few pounds and allow us to shorten the engine mount 1-2”. I’ll have more on this later.

Random Bits:

I’m lobbying heavily w/DeltaHawk to let us put the 235hp version on the RV10. As good as I think the 200hp DH will be in the RV14, I think the match with the 235 on the RV10 might be even better. Would love to see it on the RV15 as well!

DH says they don’t have a TBO yet but expect it to be 1500-2000 hours initially. They are working to get it ‘on condition’ at some point. Which, is essentially what it is for us non-certified (experimental) folks. Remember, the engine has no valves/lifters, no mags, no spark plugs, and it’s a mechanical fuel injection (no ECU). The parts count is substantially less than the lycoming. But, it does have a supercharger and turbocharger. I am as anxious as everyone else to see what the actual maintenance looks like.


Pics in order:
Pretty nice old VW at the EAA auction this Thursday. Just wanted to share.

Got to sneak into the vendors free beer and food event this evening. Hartzell was the sponsor. My pic doesn’t do it justice.

Battery located rear of baggage compartment in RV14. CG is not an issue. We’re still a bit porky - approx 60lbs over the lycoming install - but we expect to get this down to 20-30lbs. I’m pushing DH on this - and, they understand that useful load is important to us. They’ve got firm solutions for 30lbs as I write this - and, it’s one reason we have a second plane in queue for production (the one we’ll show at OSH next year).

Shot of the panel recently altered by Aerotronics to work with the DeltaHawk engine. The iPhone and ipad aren’t in place so it looks a bit empty.

The last three are some shots of the engine compartment.


Lastly - it was nice meeting a number of you today. I’m at DeltaHawk’s booth everyday this week - just at random hours, but 2-3 hours a day. Looking forward to meeting more of you.
 

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Craig, thank you for your updates. You mentioned a second RV 14 in the queue. I was wondering and hoping it will be a tricycle gear. If so do they have to build it from scratch or do you have another builder like yourself to let DH put the engine on their plane. Great pics enjoy the show.
 
To calm your concerns about the fuel caps, I offer this: I've got over 1500 hrs flying three different experimental diesels (an RV9, Sportsman, and modified Cessna). All three have the "stock" fuel caps. Most Jet A fuel trucks and pumps have a smaller nozzle option that work just fine with the smaller fuel caps. On the few occasions (mostly in Mexico) where only the large duck-bill nozzles are in use, I simply carry a funnel. Yes, it takes a little longer, but in reality I've only needed the funnel a handful of times over the last 16 years.

Obviously if you can find a larger fuel inlet/cap solution to integrate into your build, that should definitely be pursued. However, If you're retrofitting It does not need to be a huge concern.

Kurt Goodfellow
 
Folks,

Some interesting stuff to share on the DHK 200 engine project. I had mentioned that when we begin flying the current RV14 project (should be up in the air before the end of October) we will commence building a second RV14 with DeltaHawk. The second plane will have their newest iteration of the DHK 200 with the latest evolution of the engine block. The plan is to complete the no.2 plane while no.1 is accumulating flight data, and tweak things as appropriate. We do know already, though, that the new block will allow is to further stream-line the cowling amongst other things. I have attached photos below of the new engine/block.

The key differences are:
>The Block loses about 13 pounds. You'll notice the slightly smaller flywheel (with lightening holes) and the detail on the top of the block. DeltaHawk says the block is not just lighter, but stronger - and they have been working with a well known engine block manufacturer on this.
>Some of the cooling runs are now internal to the block (as opposed to external plumbing) - which further shaves some weight by cutting down on the external hose runs.
>The engine mount has been modified at the attach points to the engine.

Check out the pictures - there is quite a bit of detail, and this is the version of the engine that will be in the second RV14 as well as for general consumption once the FF package is complete.

The target weight for the entire package is 30 pounds over the installed weight of the Lycoming. This won't be achieved with plane No.1, but the goal is to achieve this for the no.2 plane - which is planned to be flying next spring and then at Oshkosh. The fuselage and much of the air-frame is already complete (thanks Synergy Air), so I believe the time-frame is realistic.

Incidentally, DH is telling me that Engine deliveries will begin mid-2025. They are already taking deposits on positions ($1K secures a position, doable on their website). Also, my understanding is that Van's will allow deductions from their standard kit config for folks building a DeltaHawk version. Regardless, I know DH is speaking with Van's about offering a FF package for the DH engine at some point down the road - that is to say, allowing a Van's kit customer to choose an engine (Lycoming or DeltaHawk) and then Van's will send you all the right stuff (vs buying the non-engine components thru DeltaHawk). I suspect it would be helpful if folks interested in this option would reach out to Van's and express interest in this - my personal take is the more Van's understands the magnitude of interest in the DH engine, the more likely they are to offer the option as a standard choice when ordering a kit.

As long as I am asking folks to pester people - please go on DeltaHawk's sight and vote for which plane you would like to fit the engine to. I have seen a lot of representatives from other GA companies speaking with the DH guys this week, and I dont think it would hurt to make sure they know how many of us RV'ers are interested in this project. Better yet, reserve a slot if your inclined to.

On the RV14A - I know the folks in Synergy Air Atlanta are talking with DH about developing a package for their tricycle gear 14. No timeline yet, but its being discussed. The great thing about Synergy Air is they have many projects in process and can complete builds quickly (and, to an exceptionally high standard). I will keep you posted with any developments on this front.

Lastly, a shout-out to some of the Forum guys I met today at the DeltaHawk booth (tent, not sure what to call it). Collin from Toogoolawah, Queensland, AUS probably wins the kudos for the longest trip. Jason from Atlanta. And, the original poster for this thread - CzeckSix. Thanks for saying hello, and for the interesting feedback.
 

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Settled into Oshkosh finally!
Sunday night I managed to score a nice Airbnb basement within .5 miles of the field, so Dawn and I are not commuting back and forth each day as expected. The airbnb has two bikes so the 1/2 mile is a breeze! All that said, I’m a little disappointed as I was looking forward to exploring a different field each evening and hoping we’d find a gem or two. We did spend the weekend in Madison/Middleton WI and it was great. Reasonable hotel rates and good food. Beautiful area.

On the DeltaHawk front…

Making progress but the plane isn’t as far along as we wanted it to be for AirVenture - some of the parts arrived too late for everything to get bolted on before sending it off to the show. Even less than sharp observers will see from the pics below that the turbo and most of the plumbing isnt attached. After the show, the fuse/engine will head back to Racine for them to finish the install. Synergy will send one of their guys out to get the cowling on proper. I’m estimating we’ll see the whole assembly back to Eugene by about the first week of September. Final assembly will then take about 4-6 weeks and then we’ll begin flying.

Incidentally, when the plane (N245WM) begins flying - we will be in construction on a second DeltaHawk RV14 that will incorporate a few modifications/improvements that should trim a few pounds and allow us to shorten the engine mount 1-2”. I’ll have more on this later.

Random Bits:

I’m lobbying heavily w/DeltaHawk to let us put the 235hp version on the RV10. As good as I think the 200hp DH will be in the RV14, I think the match with the 235 on the RV10 might be even better. Would love to see it on the RV15 as well!

DH says they don’t have a TBO yet but expect it to be 1500-2000 hours initially. They are working to get it ‘on condition’ at some point. Which, is essentially what it is for us non-certified (experimental) folks. Remember, the engine has no valves/lifters, no mags, no spark plugs, and it’s a mechanical fuel injection (no ECU). The parts count is substantially less than the lycoming. But, it does have a supercharger and turbocharger. I am as anxious as everyone else to see what the actual maintenance looks like.


Pics in order:
Pretty nice old VW at the EAA auction this Thursday. Just wanted to share.

Got to sneak into the vendors free beer and food event this evening. Hartzell was the sponsor. My pic doesn’t do it justice.

Battery located rear of baggage compartment in RV14. CG is not an issue. We’re still a bit porky - approx 60lbs over the lycoming install - but we expect to get this down to 20-30lbs. I’m pushing DH on this - and, they understand that useful load is important to us. They’ve got firm solutions for 30lbs as I write this - and, it’s one reason we have a second plane in queue for production (the one we’ll show at OSH next year).

Shot of the panel recently altered by Aerotronics to work with the DeltaHawk engine. The iPhone and ipad aren’t in place so it looks a bit empty.

The last three are some shots of the engine compartment.


Lastly - it was nice meeting a number of you today. I’m at DeltaHawk’s booth everyday this week - just at random hours, but 2-3 hours a day. Looking forward to meeting more of you.
Love to see this project proceed. TBD
 
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I just got home from OSH, spent several hours at the DeltaHawk booth and enjoyed meeting Craig and several of the DH guys. Was going to post some pics but I think Craig already has that covered above. I asked a ton of questions and thought I'd share what I learned for those interested. Disclaimer: I may not have heard everything correctly so no guarantees about the accuracy of this info, and of course it's all subject to change...

The prototype installation on Craig's -14 has a PlanePower alternator and SkyTec starter, but DH has responded to feedback and the production engines will come standard with B&C alternator and starter which is great to hear.

There is ongoing discussion about how far aft the engine can be moved in the RV-14(A) installations, and part of that decision is how much space should be provisioned for the accessory drive pad. From previous history of discussions about the IO-390 I think many (most?) builders have been putting on a backup alternator. A B&C backup is quite a bit larger than the compact MonkWorkz unit...I think the latter would be sufficient for most people and would allow the engine to be moved back a bit (with CG and aesthetic benefits).

I asked whether there was any risk of hydraulic lock given the inverted Vee orientation and was told they did extensive certification testing to prove to the FAA that it isn't an issue.

The Idle Governor is actuated by a solenoid in the fuel control unit. I was told it does not have a failure mode which would lead to engine power loss.

Engine warm up time in summer is typically 5-7 mins before coolant temp reaches the minimum for takeoff power. In winter it will be longer although the Tanis preheater system (which will be included) will help by ensuring the main engine block is already warm.

I inquired about how they avoid excessive piston ring wear around the intake/exhaust ports (keep in mind this is a 2-stroke...no intake/exhaust valves). There are three rings on each piston, the lowest one is an oil control ring that never reaches the ports at TDC. The two upper rings, which do pass thru the region where the ports are located, are pinned to ensure the rings never rotate. This keeps the split in the rings aligned with the portion of the cylinder wall between the intake and exhaust port (otherwise the ends of the rings could catch on the edges of the ports). The ports are chamfered and extensive testing has shown no significant wear on the rings around the edges of the ports.

I asked why the decision to both supercharge and turbocharge the engine. Answer is that the supercharger is important at low RPMs and turbocharger is better at high power settings and also at high altitude. Plus they provide some redundancy as the engine can still run (at reduced power output) on only the supercharger or the turbocharger if one or the other fails.

The supercharger is a twin screw type. One of the screws is driven directly by the serpentine belt. The other screw is driven by a gear from the first screw, and the pair of gears are in their own self-contained gearbox with dedicated gear oil.

The oil pump has three impellers ganged together inside one housing. Two of them are scavenge pumps and the other is the pressure pump.

The mechanical fuel injection, oil pump, turbo- and supercharger are all unique to DH, that is none of them are off-the-shelf from other engines...DH started out earlier in development working with proven components & engineering expertise from other suppliers but the designs have evolved into their own custom solution for the DH engines.

The RV-14 installation brings the exhaust pipe out thru the tunnel area. Exhaust pipe routing on the -14A is still TBD. The DH guy I talked to was thinking about splitting the pipe (after the turbo) to go around the nose gear and then rejoining it in the tunnel. I suggested that it may be simpler/better to use exhaust exit(s) that are NOT in the tunnel similar to what Van's did when they reworked the FWF installation for the IO-390-EXP119...that configuration should work for both the -14 and -14A models, keeping the cowling identical. The tunnel could then retain the stock Van's cover & cowl flap to minimize drag.

The prototype cowl for the -14 has access panels for checking oil, coolant, and oil drain. There is no provision for a cowl flap, that will be evaluated based on flight test data once Craig has the -14 flying.

None of the currently planned DH installations have provision for a muffler, although they acknowledged they'll eventually need to address this for some customers, especially those in Europe. I'm not sure it would be possible to fit a muffler in the RV-14 cowl but would be interested if one was available.

Craig's RV-14 is using a duplex Andair fuel selector. It looked like 3/8" fuel lines for both the supply and return, so when you're building the fwd fuselage you might want to plan accordingly.

The electric boost pump is something DH is still sorting out. The initial plan for the -14 will have it mounted on the hot side of the firewall...I didn't catch the specs, but apparently the boost pump requirements for this engine exceed the capabilities of the typical AFP or Andair boost pumps used in IO-390 installations. I also heard a comment that DH wasn't sure they would keep the boost pump in the long run.

I asked how many hours DH has put on development engines in the test cell...answer was something like ten engines that each have ~5000 hours on them, and most of those hours are running them hard (abusing them). Long term they expect 3000 hr TBO and eventual goal is 'on condition' with no TBO at all. Cylinders have a steel sleeve that can be replaced and of course bearings, pistons/rings, and all of the accessories (fuel control unit, water pump, oil pump, etc) can all be replaced. DH stressed that they do not plan to have a life limit where you essentially throw away the engine and buy a new one.

The engine will still run with a cylinder inop (clogged injector for example). DH has demonstrated that it will run on only two cylinders albeit very rough and with significant power reduction. It will also run for a while after loss of water pump/coolant and they had to demonstrate this during certification testing, so if you have a coolant overtemp alert in flight you would have a decent chance of getting it on the ground at the nearest airport without the engine seizing up.

I asked about oil consumption and was told it's nearly zero...much more like a modern car vs. a typical Lyc/Cont where you're adding a quart every dozen hours (with much of it ending up on the belly). Also asked about oil change interval and DH is still working on a recommended interval, the guy I asked thought they would try to start out around 150 hrs and maybe extend that eventually (start out conservative). Regardless it should be significantly less frequent than the air-cooled engines where we're accustomed to changing oil ever 25-50 hrs.

They will likely recommend a compression check & borescope check (both via the glow plug port) at every annual.

Other maintenance items like replacing the coolant and serpentine belt are also expected to be 'like your car'...very long intervals.

DH has tested engine shutdowns and restarts in flight, both with prop windmilling and after prop has completely stopped. It handles restarts well and there are no complications if you forget to switch tanks and run one dry (i.e. it gracefully handles purging air from the fuel lines in this scenario and restarts quickly).

DH hasn't tested the engine for acro yet and they are wanting to gather data from the RV-14. Structurally the engine mount is designed to handle the RV's ultimate G loads and the engine itself should handle the loads as well but DH was non-committal pending the additional test data. Note that Craig's -14 won't be equipped for inverted fuel/oil but there's nothing inherent about the engine design that would preclude such a setup if you provisioned for the pickups in the fuel & oil tanks.

Propellers: so far Hartzell has tested several instrumented carbon fiber props with the DH engine, the plan is to approve existing propellers and DH does not expect the engine to require a new custom prop design. DH is wanting to get other brands approved as well, especially since Hartzell acquired Whirlwind which removed their main competition with predictable results for the consumer...hopefully MT, Catto, etc will come to the rescue with some competitive alternatives. BTW there are no plans to approve an aluminum prop due to both weight and vibration concerns.

Speaking of props, I got mixed answers from different people at the DH tent about the anticipated RV-14 FWF package & price. One person told me they are targeting $110-120K including the prop, someone else said $110 not including the prop...and if the only option initially is a Hartzell carbon fiber prop, that's another $20-27k depending on the model. Hopefully they can figure out how to contain the cost of the whole package so they don't price themselves out of the Experimental aircraft market.

BTW I also stopped by Van's tent and spoke with Rian and Greg, both confirmed that they will allow the -14(A) finish kit to be customized for builders who want to remove the mount/cowl/etc for the IO-390 (you would get partial credit for the removed items per long-standing policy). Otherwise they aren't budging on customization for the emp/wing/fuse kits (per new policy established during Ch 11). Hopefully at some point Van's will support the DH option in the finish/FWF kits as it would probably be more cost effective than having to delete IO-390 components and then go to DH to get the full FWF package separately. Fingers crossed.

Lastly, Rian noted that DH didn't build any nose-right offset into the engine installation in the -14. This was discussed earlier in this thread, seems there was a disconnect between Van's and DH engineering on that one. So it will be interesting to see how much right rudder is needed to center the ball. I would imagine they will fix this along with other changes to the engine mount and cowl on the second -14 installation that Craig already has in the works.
 
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