I don't know much about ACs, so I apologize if this sounds like a silly question. But has anyone taken an electric powered air conditioning system designed for a car and put it into their RV? I was thinking you could run it off a backup alternator. Seems like a much cheaper option than ACs that are available for aviation. Not the best example I'm sure, but here's an example kit: https://www.amazon.com/Universal-electric-conditioner-conditioner%EF%BC%8CCamper-Conditioner/dp/B09NW58X27/ref=asc_df_B09NW58X27/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=563823049430&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9255227476358563632&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9067609&hvtargid=pla-1617615080874&psc=1
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automotive air conditioners
- Thread starter bmellis11
- Start date
Electric AC
Average current for an RV is 10-25 A depending on the type of flight.
The proposed AC has a starting current of 75 A and 40 A running.
Most alternators we use have a max current of 60 A.
Loading the alternator more than 80 % is not recomended other than in an emergency.
A belt driven compressor will be better choise.
Good luck
Average current for an RV is 10-25 A depending on the type of flight.
The proposed AC has a starting current of 75 A and 40 A running.
Most alternators we use have a max current of 60 A.
Loading the alternator more than 80 % is not recomended other than in an emergency.
A belt driven compressor will be better choise.
Good luck
jneves
Well Known Member
In addition to the current draw which already makes this a no go in my mind, even with a second alternator, you'd be adding 50 lbs to the empty weight at minimum.
Again, I'm a newbie at electrical so I still have research to do and this may be a silly question, but don't starters take more amps than the 75A it takes to start the AC? Seems like a 60A backup alternator could feed the 40A draw of the AC after it started.
Let's say belt driven is better, has anyone used a belt driven automotive AC in their RV?
Dad's RV-10
Well Known Member
There are several RV's flying with Airflow Systems air conditioning, which uses an engine (belt) driven compressor.
Do you know if a belt driven automotive AC compressor would work on an RV? Automotive AC systems cost about $700 to $2000 whereas the Airflow Systems AC system is around $9000. I can't imagine the technology is much different.
BillL
Well Known Member
But . . but . . .
"This electric air conditioner doesn't affect the horsepower of the car itself"
Now - that makes me feel better.
This is an interesting design worthy of consideration. But, before these (any) specifications could be used in design, it would be reasonable to test an actual unit to validate the claims. Also, who makes this compressor?
An advantage would be full cooling due to compressor speed at low engine speeds, but the current output of the alternator(s) would still have to be available.
Certainly an AC is an individual tradeoff, but 50 lbs is only for this unit, not ducting, controls, and a larger alternator to operate it up to cool air altitudes. Some people possibly just can not sit in a 120F cockpit for taxi, and TO.
Ben, watch this video, a NASA engineer helps make a water cooling module for a cool suit. He talks about how many BTU's it takes to cool a human body. You will find it interesting.
"This electric air conditioner doesn't affect the horsepower of the car itself"
Now - that makes me feel better.
This is an interesting design worthy of consideration. But, before these (any) specifications could be used in design, it would be reasonable to test an actual unit to validate the claims. Also, who makes this compressor?
An advantage would be full cooling due to compressor speed at low engine speeds, but the current output of the alternator(s) would still have to be available.
Certainly an AC is an individual tradeoff, but 50 lbs is only for this unit, not ducting, controls, and a larger alternator to operate it up to cool air altitudes. Some people possibly just can not sit in a 120F cockpit for taxi, and TO.
Ben, watch this video, a NASA engineer helps make a water cooling module for a cool suit. He talks about how many BTU's it takes to cool a human body. You will find it interesting.
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There's a lot more to an A/C installation than just the compressor. You have to find a place to put the condenser (radiator that dumps the heat out - have you seen the size of that in your car?), the evaporator (radiator that absorbs heat from the cabin), get sufficient airflow to both of those, without causing excessive drag, and you have to get the water generated in the evaporator out of the airplane without letting it pool somewhere to cause corrosion. And do all that without requiring the entire plane to be disassembled to service any of those parts.
There are a couple of electric driven A/C for airplanes, I saw one at Sun n Fun. It was about the same price as the engine driven compressor systems.
Generally they need about 75A on a 12v system (less on 24v), have less cooling ability than an engine driven compressor system, and you still have to deal with getting the hot air from the condenser and water out of the cabin.
There are a couple of electric driven A/C for airplanes, I saw one at Sun n Fun. It was about the same price as the engine driven compressor systems.
Generally they need about 75A on a 12v system (less on 24v), have less cooling ability than an engine driven compressor system, and you still have to deal with getting the hot air from the condenser and water out of the cabin.
Freemasm
Well Known Member
Typical BS that particular on-line retailer allows. If this company is gonna defy physics, why waste it on a thermal cycle? Did I miss where they advertise a hovercraft on Amazon?
Mike D
Well Known Member
it can be done
There are several all electric AC's and several belt driven AC's available for aircraft. Many have them in their RV-10's.
For the aircraft specific AC's, the expense is mainly due to the small runs of production.
For the electric versions it comes down to efficiency of the compressor. There have been many improvements as electric cars become more common. The issue with taking one out of a electric car is getting it to run. It is typically not a straight 12v and have computer controls to run them. (and their not cheap either)
There are the big box portable units that could be run off a battery for a very short time. But this will be some weight and they are not efficient. you will have to port the hot air overboard. This is a dead end for me, but maybe someone else can see the way to make them work.
I have looked at small pet AC's. These are for dog houses and can run off of 12v and a small(ish) battery. I have gotten these to work in my RV-6, but wont cool down a RV-10. It might be some relief on a RV-4 if put in the rear seat
There is the ice chest version of a cooler. It is cheap to buy or make. But I'm in Houston so these ice chest coolers won't work for me. Adding humidity is not good here.
Another option is the cooling seat covers. there are a lot of fan versions but a few liquid cooled versions as well.
So, to give you some idea of what an electric AC uses, my electric car shows a 1kw increase to run the AC. if my math is correct, this is 100amps at 12volts. (I'm not electrically talented)
But, it can be done! It will take a lot of tinkering to get it to work. Sometimes you got to either put in the work or put in the money.
Experiment!
There are several all electric AC's and several belt driven AC's available for aircraft. Many have them in their RV-10's.
For the aircraft specific AC's, the expense is mainly due to the small runs of production.
For the electric versions it comes down to efficiency of the compressor. There have been many improvements as electric cars become more common. The issue with taking one out of a electric car is getting it to run. It is typically not a straight 12v and have computer controls to run them. (and their not cheap either)
There are the big box portable units that could be run off a battery for a very short time. But this will be some weight and they are not efficient. you will have to port the hot air overboard. This is a dead end for me, but maybe someone else can see the way to make them work.
I have looked at small pet AC's. These are for dog houses and can run off of 12v and a small(ish) battery. I have gotten these to work in my RV-6, but wont cool down a RV-10. It might be some relief on a RV-4 if put in the rear seat
There is the ice chest version of a cooler. It is cheap to buy or make. But I'm in Houston so these ice chest coolers won't work for me. Adding humidity is not good here.
Another option is the cooling seat covers. there are a lot of fan versions but a few liquid cooled versions as well.
So, to give you some idea of what an electric AC uses, my electric car shows a 1kw increase to run the AC. if my math is correct, this is 100amps at 12volts. (I'm not electrically talented)
But, it can be done! It will take a lot of tinkering to get it to work. Sometimes you got to either put in the work or put in the money.
Experiment!
Hangar 1271
Well Known Member
The ice chest AC units with a heat exchanger, like Arctic Air, actually remove humidity from the cockpit. Swamp coolers that just blow air over a cold water source do add humidity and don't work very well in humid conditions. I used one in FL for many years and it would drop the temperature of a Mooney from over 100 to a much more comfortable temp, say low 80s, in moments and lasted about an hour. plenty of time to taxi and climb to a more comfortable altitude and then on descent and land. Plus, you only pay for the weight when it is used and removed when not. I would use about 20 lbs of ice and a gallon of water making the whole thing about 40 lbs. Almost all FBOs will gladly give you the ice when you are ready to leave. Worked great. With a 6, 7, or 9 it fits nicely in the baggage area.
I have an 8 so my process was much more complicated but I made a unit and put the fan and exchanger in the cockpit. My biggest problem was the condensation off the exchanger, ergo the dehumidification, which is very significant.
AeroEngineer
Active Member
So the alternator makes power in some magical way that does not resist the turning of the engine?
Even Bart Simpson would be able to see through the BS in that claim
Actually a well designed unit will drop humidity levels just like an AC. The water / ice sits at bottom of chest. A pump moves the cold water to a heater core and the cabin air moves across the heater core. Works on the same principle at AC and will not add humidity, but remove it, as moisture in the air will condense on the heater core and liquid water drips to bottom of chest, just like an evap core on an AC system. The only difference from an actual AC system is that there is no pump and condensor to remove heat from the refrigerant therefore it only works until the water is no longer cool enough. It is also significantly less efficient than AC, as there is no multiplier that comes with latent heat of evaporation that you get with pressurized Freon moving to a low pressure state in the evaporator.
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So the alternator makes power in some magical way that does not resist the turning of the engine?
Even Bart Simpson would be able to see through the BS in that claim
To be fare to BillL, that was not his quote, he copied it from the description on Amazon.
Untainted123
Well Known Member
I built one from ideas I found on the internet, powered by Ryobi batteries (using a 3d printed adapter). I used an oil cooler for the evaporator, and separated the ice/fluid section from the top using insulated foam board. I procured a high flow fan and water pump to move the cold fluid through the oil cooler. It does dry the air (the water collects on the oil cooler, and then drip down into the ice area through a small drain hole in the foam board). I can get some pictures if anyone is interested in the design. The main feature is the separation of the ice/fluid from the cooling fins, it lasts a significantly longer time doing so.
Something that also helps: put the ice in the bottom, but the night before, mix water and RV anti-freeze (which I think is mostly ethanol and eco-friendly), and freeze that. It will stay liquid (which of course you need for the pump) cause of the anti-freeze, so you can pour a super cooled liquid onto your ice instead of room-temp or fridge temp water. Makes the ice last longer.
I found I don't really use it though, for several reasons: as mentioned, getting off the ground to cooler air is usually good enough, it takes up space in the baggage, I am more heat tolerant than most, and it requires prepping and loading into the plane, causing me to be hot and sweaty to begin with.
All told, I think I spent < $150, including the cooler, to put it together.
bjohnson1234
Well Known Member
Zero Breeze
I've been using the Zero Breeze Mark 2 and it works great. I vent it out through the baggage bulkhead and it cools my rv6 nicely. The best part is that it can run on its own battery power so no alternator concerns. They make a charging cable that can charge the batteries while it runs (it will still run out eventually with one battery if running continuously, but I generally only need it at low altitudes)
https://www.zerobreeze.com/products/zero-breeze-mark-2
I've been using the Zero Breeze Mark 2 and it works great. I vent it out through the baggage bulkhead and it cools my rv6 nicely. The best part is that it can run on its own battery power so no alternator concerns. They make a charging cable that can charge the batteries while it runs (it will still run out eventually with one battery if running continuously, but I generally only need it at low altitudes)
https://www.zerobreeze.com/products/zero-breeze-mark-2
Untainted123
Well Known Member
Zero Breeze
I hadn't seen these before, but it looks like a better alternative than putting in heavy duty alternator etc, and just be willing to have to charge it after use, or accept that you can't run it continuously. Looks like it uses outside air for cooling the condenser, which is good (otherwise you pull in uncooled/undried air to replace the air needed to cool the condenser, which is _way_ less efficient). Biggest benefit is you can remove it in the cooler months, or use it outside the plane after arrival (RV-15 camping? ).
If I was going to use one of these, I would go ahead and built in the ducting somehow to hook to it, that could be stowed or closed off when not needed, maybe scat tubing on the baggage wall or something. Wouldn't be much weight when not carrying the unit.
I hadn't seen these before, but it looks like a better alternative than putting in heavy duty alternator etc, and just be willing to have to charge it after use, or accept that you can't run it continuously. Looks like it uses outside air for cooling the condenser, which is good (otherwise you pull in uncooled/undried air to replace the air needed to cool the condenser, which is _way_ less efficient). Biggest benefit is you can remove it in the cooler months, or use it outside the plane after arrival (RV-15 camping?
).If I was going to use one of these, I would go ahead and built in the ducting somehow to hook to it, that could be stowed or closed off when not needed, maybe scat tubing on the baggage wall or something. Wouldn't be much weight when not carrying the unit.
bjohnson1234
Well Known Member
It comes with adapters to hook it up to ducting. I have a Y adapter to split it into two 2.5" vents that I run along the outside of the seats underneath the armrest area. The hose will hold its shape so you can run it forward and then point it back towards you if you want. In my rv6 with the unit behind the copilot seat that configuration took up the least amount of usable space in the baggage area.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08BRFSN3M/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09VXDWSN3
Here is a crazy idea, aparently they do this in space: "water boil off" AC.
Problem: having a traditional AC (car-type AC) in a plane is complicated, one main problem is the need to have lots of airflow across the condenser unit. Some people mount P51-style scoops on the belly of their planes for that. Drag penalty!
Solution: instead of cooling the condenser via airflow, we just put it in water and the water soaks up the heat. Once boiling point is reached, the vaporization has intrinsic colling effects. Steam is ejected out of the aircraft via a small hose. No cooling drag!
Back of the envelope math: My B-Kool ice based AC system uses about 20 lbs ice per hour. energy to melt 1kg water ice is about 330kJ. Vaporization enthalpy of 1kg water is 2257kJ, so about 7 times more. Lets assume some losses, so 5 times more.
that means instead of lugging around 10kg water ice, and freezing it at home, or procuring from gas station, i would simply fill 2 L of water into a container and would get 1h of cooling. Energy for the compressor can come from electical power or belt driven.
Q: Is it even possible to have the condenser reach 100°C? Would it reduce the system efficiency too much to operate at these high temperatures?
Problem: having a traditional AC (car-type AC) in a plane is complicated, one main problem is the need to have lots of airflow across the condenser unit. Some people mount P51-style scoops on the belly of their planes for that. Drag penalty!
Solution: instead of cooling the condenser via airflow, we just put it in water and the water soaks up the heat. Once boiling point is reached, the vaporization has intrinsic colling effects. Steam is ejected out of the aircraft via a small hose. No cooling drag!
Back of the envelope math: My B-Kool ice based AC system uses about 20 lbs ice per hour. energy to melt 1kg water ice is about 330kJ. Vaporization enthalpy of 1kg water is 2257kJ, so about 7 times more. Lets assume some losses, so 5 times more.
that means instead of lugging around 10kg water ice, and freezing it at home, or procuring from gas station, i would simply fill 2 L of water into a container and would get 1h of cooling. Energy for the compressor can come from electical power or belt driven.
Q: Is it even possible to have the condenser reach 100°C? Would it reduce the system efficiency too much to operate at these high temperatures?
Amadeus
Well Known Member
Short of 25 pounds and $25,000 I don't have an answer for ground ops.
Well since the poster a couple notes back brought up “they do it in space”, yes - we use water evaporation to cool when you’re in a vacuum - but that doesn’t work very well, or very efficiently below say…80,000’. Down low (and on the ground) the Shuttle used an Amonnia boiler to solve that….but I REALLY don’t think you want to carry around a tank of ammonia, and try boiling that off on a public ramp. You remember how the first ground crew to approach the Shuttle after landing were wearing fully enclosed suits?
I prefer, suck it up buttercup.
RV6Kleen
I'm New Here
Heinrich Gerhardt at KTOA. One of the cleanest installations you will ever see, running around 200+ hours. Total weight I believe is 24 lbs. Parked on the ramp people always think he is leaking fuel, nope just condensation like any car. Of course it helps to have some firewall space. Oh yes, the company name, Planecool!
Attachments
Do you have a link to Planecool? When I try to look it up all Google offers up are lots of cool planes...
RV6Kleen
I'm New Here
Ted, check with [email protected] he is listed here as a member. Story of my life, I screwed up the company name it’s Planekool
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I remember that Bob Crippen wasn't too concerned as he was punching the air after STS-1. What a moment that was.Well since the poster a couple notes back brought up “they do it in space”, yes - we use water evaporation to cool when you’re in a vacuum - but that doesn’t work very well, or very efficiently below say…80,000’. Down low (and on the ground) the Shuttle used an Amonnia boiler to solve that….but I REALLY don’t think you want to carry around a tank of ammonia, and try boiling that off on a public ramp. You remember how the first ground crew to approach the Shuttle after landing were wearing fully enclosed suits?
Well after the ammonia Boilers were shut down! No one got out until the vehicle was on ground cooling.
Freemasm
Well Known Member
Yes, and the thrusters sniffed, and....
not much in this world scarier than Hypergols.
You haven't met my first wife.
More information.
Air Conditioned RV6!
I recently had the pleasure of meeting a VAF member who goes by the handle "hgerhardt", name omitted to protect the innocent ;-). Since I was in the area, I had asked to check out his RV6. His plane has to be one of the more spectacular builds in the fleet and sightseeing over Catalina Island...
vansairforce.net
gmcjetpilot
Well Known Member
FLY HIGH - Fly at 11-12.5 thousand feet. Standard Lapse Rate 3.56°F x 12 = 42.7F Assume SL Temp is 80F, at cruising altitude 38F. That is cooler than any AC you can put in an uninsulated aluminum airplane with bubble canopy.
AIRFLOW - Example are 12 volt battery powered or 12v DC plug in fan. Ryobi USB Lithium Clamp Fan Kit with USB Lithium 2.0 Ah Lithium Rechargeable Battery. Airflow is nice, cheap, easy and does add a modicum of additional comfort
FLY EARLY - Being outside at the airport when it's hot, is going to be hot. You can quote me on that brilliant observation. Ha ha. Not a lot we can do about that big glowing thing in the sky during the day. The hot part is ground operations. There are ways to minimize having a heat stroke while pre-flight, taxi,, runup, and initial climb. One way is fly really early in morning when temps are at min for day.
DRESS TO BE COOL - Wear floppy hat, loose light long sleeve, a light cotton tee-shirt under (absorb sweat). drink water, try and find shade when able If you want to spray water mist on you, cooling towel (wet evaporates). Don't forget cool looking sunglasses.
SAFEETY - Compressor driven off a belt is the way to go if you had to do AC . I wound NEVER drive it off the accessory case. Not sure that is even possible. If anything happens there, your engine stops. That is sacrosanct..
ELECTRICALLY DRIVEN COMPREESSOR - 12 volt compressor technology has come a long way. I have a 12 volt frig freezer. Amazing. It cycles on and off, 30-40 watts per/hr total use average. When running on 14 volts it draws an amp or two. Very efficient. I run it at 38F and towards the bottom of the chest it is right at freezing. I can set it to freeze. Much better than an Ice chest with your food swimming in ice water.
PORTABLE AC - EcoFlow Wave 2 Portable Air Conditioner (32lbs). ECOFLOW makes solar energy products, battery power stations. Look at it. No doubt it made to run on batteries (may be dual 12v and inverted to120v AC) and be light on electrical energy draw. You do need to exhaust the condenser air. I assume baggage area and going through bulkhead to aft fuselage is likely installation. $1200 but see some half price for refurb units from factory.
www.ecoflow.com
SELF CONTAINED POPULAR DIY COOLER (1000's of videos and pre made products) is basically an ice chest with ice/water, and forced air blowing cool air (100's of different designs) . This is not much different than swamp cooler but uses ice. Need modest electrical power for fan, from onboard battery pack (power tool) or plug into planes Cig lighter jack.
Example:
www.icybreeze.com
Evaporative Coolers or Swamp cooler uses only water (no ice) and evaporation (pads). Blowing wet air inside your plane would not bode well for long-term corrosion prevention may be? They make small ones I think 12vdc and 120vac. Again power is just for fan no compressor.
AMAZON - If you search Evaporative Air Cooler or Portable Air-conditioner there are many products. Some may be 120VAC powered but could be run easily on an inverter, but I suspect the 120Vac ones have a power supply to drop down to 12 volts. So a little wiring will make a nice portable cooler. Personally I would just go with a battery powered fan like the Ryobi I mention above, and a mist spray bottle to sprinkle water on my face if needed. Again fly high altitudes and stay cool.
AIRFLOW - Example are 12 volt battery powered or 12v DC plug in fan. Ryobi USB Lithium Clamp Fan Kit with USB Lithium 2.0 Ah Lithium Rechargeable Battery. Airflow is nice, cheap, easy and does add a modicum of additional comfort
FLY EARLY - Being outside at the airport when it's hot, is going to be hot. You can quote me on that brilliant observation. Ha ha. Not a lot we can do about that big glowing thing in the sky during the day. The hot part is ground operations. There are ways to minimize having a heat stroke while pre-flight, taxi,, runup, and initial climb. One way is fly really early in morning when temps are at min for day.
DRESS TO BE COOL - Wear floppy hat, loose light long sleeve, a light cotton tee-shirt under (absorb sweat). drink water, try and find shade when able If you want to spray water mist on you, cooling towel (wet evaporates). Don't forget cool looking sunglasses.
SAFEETY - Compressor driven off a belt is the way to go if you had to do AC . I wound NEVER drive it off the accessory case. Not sure that is even possible. If anything happens there, your engine stops. That is sacrosanct..
ELECTRICALLY DRIVEN COMPREESSOR - 12 volt compressor technology has come a long way. I have a 12 volt frig freezer. Amazing. It cycles on and off, 30-40 watts per/hr total use average. When running on 14 volts it draws an amp or two. Very efficient. I run it at 38F and towards the bottom of the chest it is right at freezing. I can set it to freeze. Much better than an Ice chest with your food swimming in ice water.
PORTABLE AC - EcoFlow Wave 2 Portable Air Conditioner (32lbs). ECOFLOW makes solar energy products, battery power stations. Look at it. No doubt it made to run on batteries (may be dual 12v and inverted to120v AC) and be light on electrical energy draw. You do need to exhaust the condenser air. I assume baggage area and going through bulkhead to aft fuselage is likely installation. $1200 but see some half price for refurb units from factory.
EcoFlow WAVE 2 Portable Air Conditioner | EcoFlow US
Stay cool (or warm) wherever you roam with the WAVE 2. 5,500 BTUs of AC or space heating provides long-lasting, quiet comfort in a compact off-grid build.
SELF CONTAINED POPULAR DIY COOLER (1000's of videos and pre made products) is basically an ice chest with ice/water, and forced air blowing cool air (100's of different designs) . This is not much different than swamp cooler but uses ice. Need modest electrical power for fan, from onboard battery pack (power tool) or plug into planes Cig lighter jack.
Example:
IcyBreeze v2 Pro
The IcyBreeze V2 Pro is the ultimate portable air conditioner and cooler. Keep cool anywhere with this powerful, lightweight, and easy-to-use device.
www.icybreeze.com
Evaporative Coolers or Swamp cooler uses only water (no ice) and evaporation (pads). Blowing wet air inside your plane would not bode well for long-term corrosion prevention may be? They make small ones I think 12vdc and 120vac. Again power is just for fan no compressor.
AMAZON - If you search Evaporative Air Cooler or Portable Air-conditioner there are many products. Some may be 120VAC powered but could be run easily on an inverter, but I suspect the 120Vac ones have a power supply to drop down to 12 volts. So a little wiring will make a nice portable cooler. Personally I would just go with a battery powered fan like the Ryobi I mention above, and a mist spray bottle to sprinkle water on my face if needed. Again fly high altitudes and stay cool.
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I have to chuckle at all the fly high comments. I live at 7000 ft and it gets to 95 or more in the summer. I've sweated on 11,000 ft mountain tops in the summer.FLY HIGH - Fly at 11-12.5 thousand feet. Standard Lapse Rate 3.56°F x 12 = 42.7F Assume SL Temp is 80F, at cruising altitude 38F. That is cooler than any AC you can put in an uninsulated aluminum airplane with bubble canopy.
AIRFLOW - Example are 12 volt battery powered or 12v DC plug in fan. Ryobi USB Lithium Clamp Fan Kit with USB Lithium 2.0 Ah Lithium Rechargeable Battery. Airflow is nice, cheap, easy and does add a modicum of additional comfort
FLY EARLY - Being outside at the airport when it's hot, is going to be hot. You can quote me on that brilliant observation. Ha ha. Not a lot we can do about that big glowing thing in the sky during the day. The hot part is ground operations. There are ways to minimize having a heat stroke while pre-flight, taxi,, runup, and initial climb. One way is fly really early in morning when temps are at min for day.
DRESS TO BE COOL - Wear floppy hat, loose light long sleeve, a light cotton tee-shirt under (absorb sweat). drink water, try and find shade when able If you want to spray water mist on you, cooling towel (wet evaporates). Don't forget cool looking sunglasses.
SAFEETY - Compressor driven off a belt is the way to go if you had to do AC . I wound NEVER drive it off the accessory case. Not sure that is even possible. If anything happens there, your engine stops. That is sacrosanct..
ELECTRICALLY DRIVEN COMPREESSOR - 12 volt compressor technology has come a long way. I have a 12 volt frig freezer. Amazing. It cycles on and off, 30-40 watts per/hr total use average. When running on 14 volts it draws an amp or two. Very efficient. I run it at 38F and towards the bottom of the chest it is right at freezing. I can set it to freeze. Much better than an Ice chest with your food swimming in ice water.
PORTABLE AC - EcoFlow Wave 2 Portable Air Conditioner (32lbs). ECOFLOW makes solar energy products, battery power stations. Look at it. No doubt it made to run on batteries (may be dual 12v and inverted to120v AC) and be light on electrical energy draw. You do need to exhaust the condenser air. I assume baggage area and going through bulkhead to aft fuselage is likely installation. $1200 but see some half price for refurb units from factory.
EcoFlow WAVE 2 Portable Air Conditioner | EcoFlow US
Stay cool (or warm) wherever you roam with the WAVE 2. 5,500 BTUs of AC or space heating provides long-lasting, quiet comfort in a compact off-grid build.
SELF CONTAINED POPULAR DIY COOLER (1000's of videos and pre made products) is basically an ice chest with ice/water, and forced air blowing cool air (100's of different designs) . This is not much different than swamp cooler but uses ice. Need modest electrical power for fan, from onboard battery pack (power tool) or plug into planes Cig lighter jack.
Example:IcyBreeze v2 Pro
The IcyBreeze V2 Pro is the ultimate portable air conditioner and cooler. Keep cool anywhere with this powerful, lightweight, and easy-to-use device.
Evaporative Coolers or Swamp cooler uses only water (no ice) and evaporation (pads). Blowing wet air inside your plane would not bode well for long-term corrosion prevention may be? They make small ones I think 12vdc and 120vac. Again power is just for fan no compressor.
AMAZON - If you search Evaporative Air Cooler or Portable Air-conditioner there are many products. Some may be 120VAC powered but could be run easily on an inverter, but I suspect the 120Vac ones have a power supply to drop down to 12 volts. So a little wiring will make a nice portable cooler. Personally I would just go with a battery powered fan like the Ryobi I mention above, and a mist spray bottle to sprinkle water on my face if needed. Again fly high altitudes and stay cool.
gmcjetpilot
Well Known Member
There is always a contrarian. Ha ha. Not all of us live or fly out of mountain airports in record heat my friend. So standard IAS temp at 7000 is 34F. You say 95F. WOW! True I looked up an example below. No one is saying atmosphere is standard or high altitude inversions at mountainous airports don't happen, but not the norm and also typically only one or two months. It is possible there is an inversion close to the ground. If you can climb above the inversion you can GET TO COOL AIR. even faster.. That is all.
Steamboat Springs, about 7000 feet. July hottest month. Looking at July 17 2023 one day peak was 74F, however the typical is 62 to 70F for the month. The Max historical high Temp for July, record was 94F. June and Aug are a little less hot. Rest of the year very nice to down right sub-freezing. Density altitudes (temps) can get very high in Colorado and other high altitude mountainous airports. Good point, but.... sometimes flying a small single engine piston plane in those conditions is NOT SAFE AT ALL, forget about sweating. I just will NOT fly say into or out of Johnson Creek ID unless early in morning, winds and temps are moderate.
How does that change what I said? Not withstanding density altitude and temperature inversions, if you can depart Steamboat Springs at 7000 indicated at 74F and struggle up to supplemental O2 altitude, say 15,000 feet indicated (say 18000' density possible by higher HP RV's even without turbocharger), you should be at least 60F or less, say 46F at altitude. Lapse average of 3.5F can very from 2F to 5.5F, but those are extremes. It might indicated instability. Flying a tiny SE plane at the limit of it's service ceiling in high winds, density altitude, unstable air and poor weather in mountainous regions is not a good idea. I know you know, but flat landers take a trip to places with big mountains and high density altitude end up having accidents. The plane that was a not rod at sea level now can not out climb terrain and obstacles. You don't have to go to the mountains to experience it.
Amadeus
Well Known Member
You're not in Colorado then. I lived at 8,400' for years and yes the temps do run into the 90's but with the very low humidity it never felt hot. I live in Kentucky now and with the humidity level here low 80's can be unbearable.
I was just attempting to make your exact point with my comment. Not all of us live at sea level or in IAS conditions. Cheyenne, Wy is at 6100ft, Evanston, Wy 7100ft, Laramie, Wy 7200ft and several airports in Utah well above 5000ft. All see summer temps into the 90's. So there are very valid reasons to want an AC system in an airplane. And for some the tradeoff in weight and performance for a comfortable flight is worth it.
gmcjetpilot
Well Known Member
No one was arguning if AC is needed. But I will play. Not needed. You also mis represent what I said.
Want, need, comfort aside, what affect will 30 lbs and loss of power to run AC compressor have on the already megar performance in high hot conditions. What about other 9 months of year where AC is not needed. How is your useful load? Two up Aerobatic weight? It comes down to keeping it light. RV-10 is the best candidate for AC.
Flying Jets out of Denver on hot days, packs are turned off for takeoff (no pressureiztion or AC) for inital T/O ans climb to assure engine out performance. Again back to point climbing is cooler air. That is fact. My point even on hot days 15,000 will be comfortable. No AC needed.
Summer wirh odd inversions with +20F highr than typical at mountain airports is a red herring. Normal summer Temps not 90F. Those are records. Low 70"s is normal. The extream, not typical. However you want AC go for it. Post research and results.
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