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Wing Tip Attach - Pop Rivets, Screw Nut Plates or Piano Hinge.... Thoughts

J

jackking123

Well Known Member
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I love the smooth look of the piano hinge and leaning to that. Light, efficient. I think there is enough documentation out there to do this Mod.

Pop rivets also light, simple but will have to drill them to take wing tip off. My other RV I flew for a decade never removed wing tip. May be a bad idea since condition inspection should have a peak in there I suppose.

Screws and nut plates is kind of the status quo.... per drawing. The Pop rivets are also per drawing... both options/

Discuss, advice?
 
jackking123 said:
I love the smooth look of the piano hinge and leaning to that. Light, efficient. I think there is enough documentation out there to do this Mod.

Pop rivets also light, simple but will have to drill them to take wing tip off. My other RV I flew for a decade never removed wing tip. May be a bad idea since condition inspection should have a peak in there I suppose.

Screws and nut plates is kind of the status quo.... per drawing. The Pop rivets are also per drawing... both options/

Discuss, advice?
Click to expand...
DO NOT use pop rivets!

I bought an aircraft with tips pop-riveted on. Not good! I had to grind through some bondo to find the pop rivets, and then had to drill out 80+ pop rivets. I now have 80 holes that I’ll have to dimple for countersunk screws and hope it doesn’t look like hammered dog shit!

If you love the sleek look, go with the piano hinge.

25+ years A&P mechanic
 
A local RV8 builder uses screws. But he polished all screw heads and they look very slick.
 
There are other options - like clecos! :ROFLMAO: I went with #6 screws and am very happy with them. It took probably two afternoons to do them - really easy, and I have removed my wingtips a few times after flying. I like that the screws are visible. After spending a bit of time around aircraft like the P-51 at Oshkosh and other airshows, I've come to embrace the RV's heritage.
 
I am planning on the hinge method. I just got the material in from aircraft spruce.
Following the pdf and Tflight on YouTube I think it should go just fine.

One question I’ll ask is about the archer wingtip nav antenna. Looking at the instructions it wants part of the ground plane to sandwich btw the metal wing and fiberglass wingtip.
How would that work with hinges in the way? Sandwich the antenna in the hinge stack riveting it in? I can’t seem to figure a way to make it work without putting holes in the antenna.
 
Screws for me, old piano hinges can be a pain in my experience. Just drilled my wing tips for nut plates.

Just my 2p worth
 
Clayvt said:
I am planning on the hinge method. I just got the material in from aircraft spruce.
Following the pdf and Tflight on YouTube I think it should go just fine.

One question I’ll ask is about the archer wingtip nav antenna. Looking at the instructions it wants part of the ground plane to sandwich btw the metal wing and fiberglass wingtip.
How would that work with hinges in the way? Sandwich the antenna in the hinge stack riveting it in? I can’t seem to figure a way to make it work without putting holes in the antenna.
Click to expand...
My Archer antenna works fine sandwiched with the hinge on the tip-side. It makes an electrical connection with the fuselage through the hinge pin. 60+ mile reception.
 

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I used piano hinges. They look great and taking them off/putting them back on is quick and easy. If you leave the aft end of the hinge pin straight (no dogleg) you can chuck it into a cordless drill and drive it in.

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Lkitson said:
I used piano hinges. They look great and taking them off/putting them back on is quick and easy. If you leave the aft end of the hinge pin straight (no dogleg) you can chuck it into a cordless drill and drive it in.

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How do you secure the hinge pin so that it's impossible for it to work itself backward and jam the aileron?
 
I went with the piano hinges for my wingtips, along with the Archer VOR antenna on the right, just as Med described. To secure the pins, there are numerous methods. Many simply drill a hole, or two and use safety wire. I screwed in a two-eyelet section of hinge and tuck the bent ends of each pin in. Sorry, no picture just yet.
 
I fill in the fiberglass tip trailing edge rib (along with all control surfaces) so piano hinge do not work. #6 SS screws but I add #6 tinnerman on the screws to protect the wing paint.

Made my own wingtip VOR/LOC/GS antenna - it is attached to a piece of 0.032” angle on the outboard wing rib. That way the antenna stays on when the tip come off.

Carl
 

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Piano hinge is easy, clean and strong. I thought I might have a picture on my build log of how I fastened the pins but looks like I left that out.
I used a Delrin block screwed to a plate nut in the rear rib. Drilled two holes in the block and bent 90 degree ends on the pin wire. If done at the rear of the rib, this jams the pins in the block so they can not come out.
Build log
 
Piano Hinge. Secure the two pins with two hinge eyelets. Stack them and rivet together so one screw will hold them in place. Crimp the open ends of the eyelets so the pin can't migrate. Add a nutplate to the rib to secure it.
I wrote a Kitplanes article, but they haven't published it. I can e-mail the draft if anyone wants it.
Buy two pieces of the wide hinge for the tip side. Four halves is enough. Standard hinge works for the wing side.
 
wirejock said:
Piano Hinge. Secure the two pins with two hinge eyelets. Stack them and rivet together so one screw will hold them in place. Crimp the open ends of the eyelets so the pin can't migrate. Add a nutplate to the rib to secure it.
I wrote a Kitplanes article, but they haven't published it. I can e-mail the draft if anyone wants it.
Buy two pieces of the wide hinge for the tip side. Four halves is enough. Standard hinge works for the wing side.
Click to expand...
Would you mind sending a copy? Would be very interested in doing this for my -8.
 
Back in the day, Cleveland had a screw kit. #4 Stainless, specially for wing tips. Really clean look with the small heads. A drop of light machine oil on each screw and they go in and out like butter. Never had an issue with them, so don’t listen to the naysayers. Use a good quality screwdriver and all is good.

I think the hinge pin is the easiest and it’s clean, but I like the look of the screws. It looks more “traditional” and matches other things I did on the airframe.

I only mention this as it was a common “upgrade” over the pop rivets back then.
 
I went with hinges and very pleased with how it came out. I put a nutplate in the tip ribs to secure the hinge pins like many others have already shown. I'm certain it took longer than installing nutplates but removing the tip is now a 30 second job. Also embedded an archer antenna to the bottom of the the right side electrically ground on the lower hinge. I followed Mike Bullocks write up (attached)
 

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Hinges here too on the 7 and 10.
Leave them straight so you can spin them in with a drill if you need to. Not an issue on a 7 but the extra curve at the front of the airfoil for a 10/14 makes it easier.

Drill an extra hole next to the tooling hole and loop safety wire through to secure the pins. Quick, simple and light.
As mentioned above, wider flanged hinge on the wing side so you can’t see the hinge.
Can have tips off in under 30seconds. Takes 2 minutes to reinstall though 8-)
 
Girraf said:
I went with hinges and very pleased with how it came out. I put a nutplate in the tip ribs to secure the hinge pins like many others have already shown. I'm certain it took longer than installing nutplates but removing the tip is now a 30 second job. Also embedded an archer antenna to the bottom of the the right side electrically ground on the lower hinge. I followed Mike Bullocks write up (attached)
Click to expand...
Thank you for this. I think I can use this to hide all garbage leftover from drilling out 80 pop rivets.

I’m not entirely sure how I’m going to get the piano hinge properly lined up inside the wingtip
 
Richard Connell said:
Hinges here too on the 7 and 10.
Leave them straight so you can spin them in with a drill if you need to. Not an issue on a 7 but the extra curve at the front of the airfoil for a 10/14 makes it easier.

Drill an extra hole next to the tooling hole and loop safety wire through to secure the pins. Quick, simple and light.
As mentioned above, wider flanged hinge on the wing side so you can’t see the hinge.
Can have tips off in under 30seconds. Takes 2 minutes to reinstall though 8-)
Click to expand...
That sounds super simple. Can you post a picture?
 
The hinges certainly look cleanest, but I'd suggest at least considering screws, because there are things you might want to attach to the wingtip. Namely, cameras. There are so many phenomenal options out there, and the wingtip is often an ideal place to put one. I'm in the process of figuring out how to mount an Insta360 to my wingtip. Here's a video of how it looks when one guy did it.

--Ron

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Here are some pics of the #4 screw install that Cleveland used to sell as a kit. It was a cleaner option to #6 screws and tinneman washers, before hinges were common.
I chose this path to keep with the overall traditional look I was after, like my metal windscreen fairings and no hidden screws or fasteners.
It takes a lot of screws and nut plates.
Went on 20 years ago and I have had no reason to remove them.
Would I do it again? If that was the overall look I was after, yes….


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Girraf said:
I went with hinges and very pleased with how it came out. I put a nutplate in the tip ribs to secure the hinge pins like many others have already shown. I'm certain it took longer than installing nutplates but removing the tip is now a 30 second job. Also embedded an archer antenna to the bottom of the the right side electrically ground on the lower hinge. I followed Mike Bullocks write up (attached)
Click to expand...
The pictures in the Kitplanes article at this link might be a little better.
 
JonJay said:
Here are some pics of the #4 screw install that Cleveland used to sell as a kit. It was a cleaner option to #6 screws and tinneman washers, before hinges were common.
I chose this path to keep with the overall traditional look I was after, like my metal windscreen fairings and no hidden screws or fasteners.
It takes a lot of screws and nut plates.
Went on 20 years ago and I have had no reason to remove them.
Would I do it again? If that was the overall look I was after, yes….
Click to expand...
I am like you. I am not ashamed of my metal plane looking like a metal plane with fasteners. So #4 sounds like a cleaner option as you say. Thanks for tip. Still on the fence... but on the screws have obvious advantages... I checked Cleveland and the screw notoplate kit did not jump out.

I sent a PM on your metal windscreen fairing. Cheers
 
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