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What O2 saturation do you see at altitude

R

RVFan671

Well Known Member
Disclaimer: Not looking for medical advice and yes I know everyone will be different based on age and body health.

I'm wondering what oxygen saturation level you're seeing or expecting when you're flying up high, WITHOUT supplemental oxygen. I recently bought a pulse oximeter from Amazon and I'm not sure if what I'm seeing is roughly accurate or not.

For me personally, with my meter, I'm registering 78% to 82% when flying at 10.5k to 11.5k MSL with density altitude around 12k.
 
I sometimes see less than 90% at 10k. Go to the altitude chamber at Oshkosh if you get a chance to see how you react.
 
swjohnsey said:
I sometimes see less than 90% at 10k. Go to the altitude chamber at Oshkosh if you get a chance to see how you react.
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Haven't been to osh but if I go I'll give it a try. I've climbed 11k and 14.5k peaks without acclimation and usually get a headache and irritated/short with people on the team (noticed this happened to every single team we saw, too) unfortunately. Usually I solved it via taking ibuprofen to thin the blood a bit and it seemed to help me. But you're climbing for 8hr compared to 1-1.5hr flight. I also have no clue O2 saturation during my climbs which were 2016 time frame in my 20s.
 
RVFan671 said:
For me personally, with my meter, I'm registering 78% to 82% when flying at 10.5k to 11.5k MSL with density altitude around 12k.
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The short answer is at those levels you are impaired. Also at those levels I’d try a different pulse/Ox meter to verify the nmbers.

Are you 95%-100% at sea level?

Not what you asked, but I’m on oxygen at 8K’ and above. It ended the “I’m exhausted” problems after a long cross country. Once you put together a charging rig keeping the plane bottle topped off is cheap - I think I’ve spent $88 to exchange the hangar bottles over the last three years (and my cross countries are long and high).

Carl
 
Recently flew about 50 mins between 10k and 13.5k and I was on o2 and stayed at 98% and my girl in the back didn't want to put hers on, and dropped to 83%. We're both at 99% at 1300ft (home altitude). BTW, she had a headache the rest of the evening.
 
I stay in the low 90’s between 10k’ and 11k’ without supplemental O2.

For what it is worth, your lungs take all of the air you inhale to 98.6F and 100% humidity or thereabouts. So the only variable in regard to density altitude and your lungs’ O2 uptake is actual atmospheric pressure.
 
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RVFan671 said:
Haven't been to osh but if I go I'll give it a try. I've climbed 11k and 14.5k peaks without acclimation and usually get a headache and irritated/short with people on the team (noticed this happened to every single team we saw, too) unfortunately. Usually I solved it via taking ibuprofen to thin the blood a bit and it seemed to help me. But you're climbing for 8hr compared to 1-1.5hr flight. I also have no clue O2 saturation during my climbs which were 2016 time frame in my 20s.
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I'm a healthy non-smoker but I'm usually in the mid-80s by 8000 feet. My doc says there's a wide range of "normal" with respect to O2 and I appear to be on one end of the bell curve. So I use O2 pretty regularly and set the O2D2 to pop on automatically above 5K. My first symptom also is irritability (!).
 
RVFan671 said:
Disclaimer: Not looking for medical advice and yes I know everyone will be different based on age and body health.
I'm wondering what oxygen saturation level you're seeing or expecting when you're flying up high, WITHOUT supplemental oxygen. I recently bought a pulse oximeter from Amazon and I'm not sure if what I'm seeing is roughly accurate or not.
For me personally, with my meter, I'm registering 78% to 82% when flying at 10.5k to 11.5k MSL with density altitude around 12k.
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78-82% would NOT be where you want to be when flying. Or doing anything. Anything South of about 89-90 would be concerning. 90+ is where you should be. Get another pulsoximeter.

A lot of what you can tolerate at altitude depends on what altitude you start or where you live. I live at 5200 feet to start with. In the clinic here, normal pulseox was 90-94% with most people even at that altitude. We would worry if the patients dropped into even the high 80's. SO: normal can be different depending on what you are used to. I can routinely cruise at 10-12k without problems. My irritation comes from fighting a headwind! 🤣

I am up frequently in the Winter skiing at Copper Mountain where the base is around 9000 feet and the summits are over 12,000 feet! (Bumper sticker: Copper Mountain. Got oxygen?) The person I go skiing with and I ski hard, and we are never oxygen-starved. We start at lift opening at 9 and ski until the last lift closes at 4 with an hour break for lunch. I have never used a pulseoximeter! The only time I get irritated is waiting too long in a lift line or if my partner is kicking my butt! 😄No headaches.

We typically do a lot of climbing here but stay away from the 14ers (mountains over 14,000 feet) as that is where all the people are. But climbing a 13er is not a problem other than being a tough climb. We climb Birthday Mountain (our name for it) every year on my Birthday. It tops out at 13,465. We can look over at the line of people snaking up the nearest 14er and have never seen anyone on 'our mountain'.

So: it might be that a 14k peak for us would be the equivalent of someone from sea level being at 8k. IMHO; YMMV

Tis a privilege to live in Colorado! 😊
 
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I am typically 97-98% at 720 MSL. Flying at 9,500 MSL, I will drop to 89-90%. I like to start using O2 when I get to 90%.
 
I have read that under 90% is low so when I fly I regulate my oxy to 92%ish. On the ground I am 98%ish.
I would be very concerned @ 78%. Like Carl, I use it on CC flights to stay fresh.
 
It's also worth noting that the FARs regarding oxygen utilization are not necessarily fully supported by all the data. I talked to the feds about this at Oshkosh one year. But a hearty second to not flying below 90%
 
I really recommend doing the chamber at Oshkosh. I went stone stupid when I took off my mask but I am mature. A young guy appeared to perform great. Even repeated and wrote down instructions. Once he put mask on he had no idea what he did, they said or what he wrote down so obviously he would not have followed any ATC instructions.
 
I have a pulsemeter in the plane and check it regularly when i change tanks. Sometimes i notice my o2 sat dropping and i remember i have to breath through my nose instead of my mouth.

Last question, where is the chamber at osh? Would love to try it.
 
My O2 starts to drop below 90% at 8000'. I go on oxygen and I'm back up to 95% if I remember to breath through my nose. 98% at sea level.
 
Sitting here, 7500', 97%, 68BPM. But I live at 7500'.
Try a few minutes of square breathing. Take a 4 sec deep breath, hold 4 seconds, exhale 4 sec. Hold 4 sec. Repeat several times then take a few slow in and out. Living up here for 12 years you don't even notice your breathing changes. I also sing while I work. It really moves air. My poor Sweetie has to listen. :LOL:
I was outside working pretty hard wearing a respirator today. It helps me, but Im not a medical person so YMMV.
 
I'll have to get another pulse ox to see if it mine is off a bit. I'm near sea level and I think I was registering 96 to 98 when I tested at home. I've got an o2 bottle that I plan to install in the rv-10 but need to have it hydro tested before a fill. The thing is, it's huge to try and lug around in my -4. I'm not sure I could get it to fit.

As for how I felt, when I checked with the readings I mentioned in the original post, it was the end of the day with 1.5hr leg after a prior 1hr leg at 11.5k. I felt a little tired and maybe a touch slow on the flight but no headache during or after. I had the same readings at the start of a different flight at 10.5k and felt good so that is why I was interested what others had experienced because 78 to 82 seems low to me given my health, but I am at sea level and seems everyone's verries a little.
 
Roadjunkie1 said:
I am up frequently in the Winter skiing at Copper Mountain where the base is around 8000 feet and the summits are over 12,000 feet! (Bumper sticker: Copper Mountain. Got oxygen?) The person I go skiing with and I ski hard, and we are never oxygen-starved. We start at lift opening at 9 and ski until the last lift closes at 4 with an hour break for lunch. I have never used a pulseoximeter!
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you’re a little low. The base is 9700. We have a place there but live at sea level. Newly added avatar is the kids at the top of Rattler on the backside.

Related but still drift = If you’ve never had altitude sickness, it is one of those horrible, please put me out of my misery, experiences. You can’t ”power through” it. A severe case is thoroughly debilitating. The magic altitude seems to be 8500 ft. Reference pressurized aircraft cabin pressure. Our flight legs are relatively short, thank goodness. If it hit you while piloting an aircraft, it could easily be game over. Never used a pulsemeter when cruising at altitude but definitely think I’ll start.
 
Freemasm said:
you’re a little low. The base is 9700. We have a place there but live at sea level. Newly added avatar is the kids at the top of Rattler on the backside.
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You are right. My finger hit the wrong key. Center Village is actually 9785! You must take a few days to acclimate if you come up from sea level! Great picture of your family on the Back Bowls!
Freemasm said:
Related but still drift = If you’ve never had altitude sickness, it is one of those horrible, please put me out of my misery, experiences. You can’t ”power through” it. A severe case is thoroughly debilitating. The magic altitude seems to be 8500 ft. Reference pressurized aircraft cabin pressure. Our flight legs are relatively short, thank goodness. If it hit you while piloting an aircraft, it could easily be game over. Never used a pulsemeter when cruising at altitude but definitely think I’ll start.
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You are correct there! True altitude sickness known as HAPE (High Altitude Pulmonary Edema) or HACE (High Altitude Cerebral Edema) can be deadly. I worked a season at the Keystone clinic, then known as the Snake River Clinic, that was at the base of Keystone Mountain Ski Resort in Colorado. We would get patients fresh off of the slopes. HAPE/HACE were true medical emergencies, and the cure was to get them down below (you are correct) 8500 feet. The problem was transporting them from Keystone in a medevac helicopter, they had to go over a 12,000 foot pass. Thankfully, those conditions were not common. There is a bag that clinics now have (a Gamow hyperbaric 'chamber') that can help until evacuation is available. Acute Mountain Sickness (AMS) was much more common and is mild symptoms of headache, nausea, fatigue. Hydration and pain medications usually helped that. Alcohol seemed to cause symptoms to come on more easily.

The relevant point for pilots is: the cure is DESCEND! With HAPE your lungs start to fill with fluid, and you become short-of-breath and have diffuse chest pain. HACE is a severe and sometimes disabling headache. Usually, you have descended before any of the above happens. AMS can happen to people who live in Denver coming up from a lower altitude. So: just because we come from a lower altitude does not mean we are immune. None of these would be 'game over' as they take some time to develop and usually you will have done something to temper the symptoms. If you are a frequent AMS sufferer your doctor can prescribe a medication that can help you adapt more quickly, whether if you are flying or up at Copper Mountain!
 
A PCT ThruHiker died of HACE/HAPE last year on Forrester Pass in 2022. The pass is 13k & is the first at high altitude. This begins the series of what we call a 'pass-a-day' as 4 - 12k peaks & multiple 11Ks follow & we plan hiking each one in a day. We begin at the base & hike over the pass & set up for the next day with overnights between 8-9k. I did them in 2019 & encountered a few who had to descend to recover. Once you pass Forrester, there's only one easy exit off the trail to lower elevation.

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It’s worth restating that hypoxia symptoms vary widely from individual to individual. Somehow my physiology gets all the symptoms. But the presence or absence of symptoms does not reflect on impairment. And my physiology complains on long flights above 8,000 without supplemental O2. Our mileages do vary…
 
I'm usually 95% or so at 9,500-10,000ft. Don't go higher than that except briefly to get over mountains. That is with my house at 4,800. Twice I have briefly dropped below 90%, both times all it took to get back to 95% was to take a few deep breaths. Didn't feel anything odd at 89%, just very "relaxed".
 
bifft said:
I'm usually 95% or so at 9,500-10,000ft. Don't go higher than that except briefly to get over mountains. That is with my house at 4,800. Twice I have briefly dropped below 90%, both times all it took to get back to 95% was to take a few deep breaths. Didn't feel anything odd at 89%, just very "relaxed".
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“Relaxed”. Yep, that’s how it starts.
 
When mine goes below 95%, my heart rate increases. At 93%, its about 100 bpm. Then turn the oxygen on, get it to around 97% or so, bpm goes back to about 72 or so.
 
In another on-line forum I learned from a retired surgeon that lower O2 sat = higher pulse rate = more frequent need to pee! There's a secondary, range-extending benefit to being on oxygen! :ROFLMAO:

With respect to the inexpensive fingernail pulse oximeters, there is a variation between different units. We have a medical oxygen user here at home and her SP02 is checked quite regularly. I've seen an indicated 2% spread between three different units, with my personal unit consistently providing the lowest (therefore safest) reading.

When it comes to these inexpensive pulse oximeters, and of particular importance when travelling with the fashion-conscious, it's a good idea to remember that fingernail polish and "glue on" nails severely impair the function of these devices. Red and blue polish colours are the worst, or so a respiratory specialist told me.

Another note to add... If considering oxygen in the cockpit, it's worthwhile to consider purchasing a portable oxygen concentrator. They are getting much better as time goes on, smaller, lighter, with lower cost and longer battery endurance. We have both a 115V-powered unit and a portable unit. Both work in the home but I far prefer the portable unit (Inogen G5) because it's quite a bit quieter than the big "iron lung" plug-in unit.
 
We did this as an experiment on the way home from osh last year. At 12.5 I hold 92-95% without issue. The wife got down to 80-82% at the same altitude. She gets headaches anytime she's above 10k without O2.
 
agent4573 said:
We did this as an experiment on the way home from osh last year. At 12.5 I hold 92-95% without issue. The wife got down to 80-82% at the same altitude. She gets headaches anytime she's above 10k without O2.
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You’re saying your wife’s blood ox was 82% at 13K, while sharing the G5? I’d rate that as worthless.
 
BobTurner said:
What’s less than 2 hours? Batteries running low? Or overheating? Or not really enough O2, starting to feel woozy? I’m interested in at least 15K.
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Bob, I am usually a numbers guy and could give you more hard data. In the case of the G5, with a T valve in line so we both get oxygen, there are too many variables. I concur that a good pulse ox is needed. Physiology being what it is, your mileage may vary.
I carry spare batteries so that is not an issue. I have noticed it will heat up if I place it between us... but that is because the vents are blocked.
Since the device is meant for one person, I will have to be sensible and suggest anyone trying to share it should test carefully. I also carry a small military bottle with a pulse device on it for backup. They were made for helo pilots by Mountain High. Sometimes come up on ebay.
Be careful out there....
 
BobTurner said:
You’re saying your wife’s blood ox was 82% at 13K, while sharing the G5? I’d rate that as worthless.
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Sorry, I think I was confusing in the way I wrote the first response. We weren't sharing a g5 with those numbers. Those were our numbers without O2. We were just curious what our tolerance was on the way home.
 
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