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Uncontrolled Airport Traffic Pattern- Safety and Courtesy

T

tinman451

Member
I had a couple of questions about how you manage flying in uncontrolled airport traffic patterns. I have observed the majority of pilots flying extended patterns that offer no chance of reaching the runway in the event of an engine failure.

I remember as a student pilot, the instruction was rather "paint by numbers"...when you get to this point, flaps down to x, when you get to this point, flaps down to y...and so forth. I never understood why it was done this way other than simply trying to load a series of steps into muscle memory which worked most of the time. I knew of a student pilot who came up short on final when they lost the engine and decided to add flaps as they had been shown over and over...the additional drag was all it took to come up a bit short...they lived to tell, but the aircraft was pretty banged up after landing in the weeds a stone's toss from the end of the runway.

Years later, I found that much tighter patterns that would allow gliding to the runway from just about anywhere in the pattern felt better/safer. More recently, I flew with an instructor who began teaching me what he called "high energy" patterns that had the engine at idle with only occasional bursts of power to keep the engine ready just in case... Come into the pattern with enough energy to make the runway assuming the engine would quit. This is accomplished with either more altitude, or more speed.

My question to this very experienced and diverse group is how to best use these techniques when the majority of pilots are flying bomber patterns. Is it ok to cut inside someone who is on a multi-mile final as long as you have communicated your intentions to them prior to doing so? I can see that a high wing/low wing collision would be a greater risk if they are not at the same pattern altitude...what other considerations are there? Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this subject.
 
Based at a Busy class D near a busy class E. Used to have a Pitts and Luscombe at Summerville.

ATC knows this works and requests it at times at my current home drome. If they recognize you as enjoying overhead patterns- start 500' above traffic pattern altitude and fly up final.

You time the rest so when the plane you overfly on final clears the runway or is on the go, you land. You clear before the next final is affected.

You can come up you initial at any speed that makes the rest work, including where you start the turn to downwind. Constant speed props make better drag, try to not beat up your motor making it work.

If the others have ADSB-In, the 500' vertical clearance should keep them relaxed, even if their radios are poor- always assume nothing from the radios.

Check final once while in your base to final turn- there is a NORDO plane hiding under the belly until your eyes prove otherwise.

When you get it down, the threat is the guy that landed before you trying to taxi into you- likely they never knew you were even there and you cleared nearer the threshold.

If the pattern is not extended when you arrive, it is easy to just join in, as always, careful where you descend the 500' and join a normal downwind.

The overhead saves glide capability and can arrive a flock- but it can also fit right in.

Your radiowork will go a long way to not ruffle any potential feathers- I'll use a x mile "initial" call and the MSL altidude. I talk less about the break and downwind than some, and make a base to short final call.

If it's a SCBC fly in, I enjoy the grading with the grits.
 
If they are on final, they are likely at a lower altitude, thus by regulations have the right of way. Regulations also prevent you from using that rule to your advantage to cut in line. I don't think you have any options other than request the other pilot run a tighter pattern.
 
Right of Way

The right of way on final does not extend to a VFR airplane on a ten mile final. IFR airplane on a ten mile final, if you turn in front of that airplane with reasonable spacing.
Most agree that the traffic patterns are advisory and not regulatory. Horizontal separation is the key issue.
 
For me ... it depends

I too fly out of an non-towered airport "up the road from you" (KCUB).

Communication for increased safety and decreased stress is what I go for.

Example(s):
1. Often-times, I will arrive at pattern altitude (maybe just a little bit higher sometimes) at around 140KTS for the "overhead break". Just abeam the numbers, break left (RWY31) or right (RWY13), idle, continuous turn, flaps as appropriate, land on the numbers, and turn off at the first exit.

For me this is a quick and safe way to get the airport and onto the taxiway. So assume this if there is nobody in the pattern.

If there is someone in the pattern and they are not communicating, being a little high helps as since we are under "Class C", people in the pattern tend to be lower.

2. If the person in the pattern is an obvious student pilot, I will over communicate to let them know that THEY have the runway as they need it. I will work my way in EVEN if it means continuing my flight "upwind", and breaking at the departure end and then heading downwind to follow them.

3. If the student (or other pilot doing touch and go's) is upwind, I will announce not only what I am doing but let them know that I should be off the runway by the time they are mid-field.

4. If it is a more experienced pilot on a "10 mile final" then I will let them know where I am, what I am about to do, and that I will be off before they arrive.


The reason for all of this is that many pilots will NOT know what you are doing with this type of approach to landing (yes, even though it is in the AIM). Me letting them know is what I am doing and WHEN/WHERE I am doing it adds to safety, courtesy, and reduction of stress.

Just my opinion.

p.s. The other day I hear "xxxxx traffic, Citation (or something) 10 mile final for 13". Preferred runway was 31. I continue, do overhead on 31 and am taxiing when I hear " .... 7 mile final for 13" and about in my hangar when I hear " .... 3 mile final for 13". In this case, one might normally say, OK, I will extend my downwind for 13 and get in line behind them. It would have added 10-12 miles to the flight. Communicating and executing had me in a much safer position, I think.
 
Engine failure

I like a tight pattern, more as an exercise in energy management than any other reason. Traffic permitting, I pull the power to idle and fly a continuous turn to final, adjusting flaps, speed and altitude to arrive at my selected touchdown point.

Many years ago engines were less reliable and making a power reduction might induce the engine to quit. We all fly fairly reliable aircraft today. I don't understand why as I fly from Washington State to Oshkosh I should be more concerned with operations at an airport. I make power adjusts a lot while enroute; climbing and leveling off. Power is adjusted a lot on the Fisk arrival.

Most of the time the pattern is busy, sometimes by a solo student in a 152. I just adjust and realize my "normal" approach is gone.
 
James, sounds very reasonable. Out of habit, I also like to stay within gliding range, but can't always do so when there are lots of aircraft in the pattern.

My home field has a very tight pattern, which is good for engine failures, but actually makes it hard to get in the pattern when there are several training aircraft doing T&Gs.

When I know I'm alone in the pattern, I enjoy the overhead break.
 
Consider a 360 back into the pattern if you are the only one in the pattern and waiting for that long final. I would rather do that than extend my downwind into infinity. The overhead as previously mentioned is also good as you can stay clean at pattern altitude and speed. I do my initial at 150mph so need to make that decision before I enter the pattern.
However, as mentioned, if the pattern is busy, you’re just kind of screwed.
 
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AC 90-66C

I found this AC to be helpful. I fly out of an uncontrolled airport with lots of students and cowboys. This not only helps me keep my own ducks in a row,
it also serves as something to stand on when somebody thinks my ducks have strayed. And sometimes others may need a little education.
danny
 
Personally I think the overhead is not appropriate around most GA airports and many folks that use it do so at the expense of others in the area/pattern.
Pretty much the only folks that I ever see use it are RV guys, why is that? (Rhetorical question).
The guy that calls for the initial is really asking everyone else to get of the way cause here I come.
Just my 2c.
 
I agree with Walt on this one. No doubt the overhead break is more efficient and I will fly it if no one else is in the pattern. But if there is anybody else, I just enter into their pattern and play nice… Not that hard to do.
 
I used to be in the no mixing overheads camp, but even as a student in the USAF, ATC metered flow mixing both types of patterns.

Then, tower asked if I'd do the overhead and it works, still. When I do them, it's to fit in an existing gap, not to shine my back pockets.

"Aircraft operations (take-offs and landings) totaled 102,566 in 2022.", at the home drome.

I've seen the patterns flown the OP asked about. Anyone against the judicial overhead have a new idea? This isn't Endeavor to Fisk, when it is, I'm in the 90 knot flow, but avoid the crowd.
 
Pretty much all of the bases have been covered already, but to summarize -- fit in with what everybody else is doing and don't insist on your own way. Besides, RVs have plenty of capability to do just about anything within reason.

(BTW, I came across one RV-10 driver, presumably an airline pilot, who insists on flying the last five mile from the final approach fix at his preferred 87 knots or whatever, and let ATC handle whatever problems he creates. Certainly not my style...)

But I learned something last week... One of my pet peeves is people who make incessant radio callouts in the pattern and on the ground. I had made MY standard callouts was all tuned in for a short field approach, right on the numbers. A quarter mile out, somebody called in that they were taking off on the crossing runway (!). I told them where I was and asked them to confirm. They did, no problem, but by that time, I had given up on the short field approach and added 10 knots in case I wanted the maneuverability.

So my preferred procedure didn't work for folks who only started listening for traffic when they get on the runway... My new philosophy is a whole lot more like defensive driving.
 
Ed_Wischmeyer said:
(BTW, I came across one RV-10 driver, presumably an airline pilot, who insists on flying the last five mile from the final approach fix at his preferred 87 knots or whatever, and let ATC handle whatever problems he creates. Certainly not my style...)
Click to expand...

And you presume this how?
 
GrinchF16 said:
I agree with Walt on this one. No doubt the overhead break is more efficient and I will fly it if no one else is in the pattern. But if there is anybody else, I just enter into their pattern and play nice… Not that hard to do.
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Don’t disagree totally, and that’s what I do. However, I believe you see it more from RV’s as there isn’t a formal training program in GA like FFI that has trained hundreds of RV pilots in the procedure. Nobody should be asking anybody to change what they are doing in the pattern.

Which brings up a point. If you are going to deviate from a standard pattern entry, call out “traffic permitting”. This could mean entry on long final, a base entry, or overhead. There have been many times practicing overhead entries where our flight simply kept flying and went back around for another entry.

There are no conflicts when done properly and courteously.
 
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I get very frustrated by these guys with 2 and 3 mile patterns. As much as I would like to cut in front of them, I am almost certain that if something went wrong I would be considered "at fault" for cutting in front of someone on final. Therefore I never do it. Seems all to common these days. In fact, because I do small patterns, I am considered the dangerous hot rod guy with the short high base and slipping down final. They all think I am going to kill myself by doing this, yet I have way more stored energy reserves than they do dragging it in for 2 miles. Good old fashioned stick and rudder skills are in short supply these days. I am not really sure where this comes from. pretty much all of the text books and AC guidance has you turning final when 45* from the threshold and that should be under a 1 mile final. I suspect that it is apprehension of the student early on that the CFI is not forcing them to overcome.
 
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My only contribution to this thread is to remind folks that not everyone in the pattern knows what “on initial” or “overhead break” means. Even if it’s well known at your local, non towered airport, transient pilots may not have any idea where to look for traffic.

I remember as a student pilot, flying to a towered airport, getting a traffic call from the tower who called the traffic at an IFR fix, “inbound”. I reponded that being a VFR student pilot, I had no idea where to look for that traffic and could he please tell me how far and in what direction I should be looking.

Not everyone flying into your local airport is an expert, aware of local “procedures” or even properly competent yet.
 
Thinking back, the wide-vs-tight pattern question was one of the more confusing parts of my initial private training. I had several different instructors and they all seemed to prefer something different. A few said "make your pattern tighter, what if your engine fails?" and a few said "make your pattern wider, they should be rectangles, not a downwind-to-final turn!" Good grief!

I typically widen my pattern to give me a little time to breathe and so that I have plenty of time to stabilize my pattern and do it right. If I feel particularly good and far ahead of the airplane that day, I tighten it up.
 
Formation flight: We use the overhead, but do get verbose so that our "jargon" is understood, or at least we try to make it clear.
"xxx flight of four RV's, three mile initial for the overhead, runway 23. Breaking into a mid-field left downwind at pattern altitude. We have the downwind traffic." Then similarly call the one mile, then the break, then the legs.

Our airport is quite busy with a lot of training, so sometimes we have to orbit to find a hole in the pattern, but the overhead with our 500 foot spacing is the quickest way to get us down and out of the way. There have been times when it just won't work, so we'll break up the flight out of the airport area and come in single (or in pairs), but that just packs the pattern even worse.

If I'm flying single, then I do the standard pattern.

And yeah, the ground calls just jam up the frequency for no real benefit. And often stomp on a airborne transmissions. "sqweeee!"
 
Plenty of interesting discussion points here, and I think Ed summarized it pretty well "..... fit in with what everybody else is doing and don't insist on your own way." Here are a few more thoughts:
1. Most of us who like to remain within an engine-out distance from the runway usually fly with specific landmarks. I use specific roads at the airport I fly from. Sometimes it's useful to post what would be the standard traffic pattern for your airport.
2. Although a continuous turn to final from the downwind is entirely possible and can be used if the engine fails, I think it is always a good idea to fly a base leg because it allows you to clear for other traffic - the long final guys, and the nordo guys. Otherwise you are belly up to them! There have been mid-airs in that spot in the pattern.
3. An overhead pattern is perfectly fine, and it's described in the AIM. I agree with the guy who said a lot of pilots don't know the terms "initial" or "overhead". What I do is modify that somewhat and say words to the effect : "entering an upwind leg at pattern altitude, and will turn downwind from overhead" or something similar.
4. Regarding the overhead, I'll answer Walt and say that if you have several airplanes in formation and traffic will allow it, you can get the max number of airplanes onto the downwind and on the ground in an ordered sequence in minimum time. For other pilots in the pattern, a flight is easier to spot than a single airplane. The formation leader has to make an assessment of traffic in the pattern and plan accordingly. You can do the break at any point, or carry it straight through, fly well clear of the airport, and when traffic clears, re-enter initial. If the pattern stays full, the flight leader should have already briefed an alternate recovery plan. It goes back to what Ed said ".... fit in with what everybody else is doing and don't insist on your own way."
5. If I'm single ship, I'll only do the overhead if the pattern is clear. As a singleton it's just too easy to fly as necessary to enter the pattern from a 45 to the downwind. I look at it as an opportunity to a better job of clearing, double check the cockpit, and think about the wind for landing.
 
I agree with every thin that Terry says (above) - the bottom line is that unless you’re out of fuel or on fire, you have no reason to “NEED” priority over anyone else, and should (as the title of the thread says) strive for courtesy to others. I give way to anyone, anytime (unless I am on fire or out of fuel), and get an extra couple of minutes in my logbook once in a while as a result.

The reality is that if you pay attention to conversations at the airport or on the internet (outside of the RV world), you’ll find that a few bad apples can give everyone flying a specific type (in this case, RV’s) a REALLY bad name. How many of us hate “those guys in 172’s flying bomber patterns” - and what does that say about everyone else flying 172’s that are behaving properly? I read very often that people hate the uppity, “me-first” attitude exhibited by RV pilots, and my heart sinks….most of us are well-behaved, responsible aviators. So please don’t be “that guy” that gives everyone else a bad name.

Paul
 
“Three miles out for the overhead..”

What a great thread - thanks Don for posting the question! I love that safety and courtesy are how we start the conversation.. Anyway, as a Navy guy (prior MH-53E, current T-6A) I am obviously biased towards the overhead but have entered many a pattern “on the 45” in the big helo. Right or wrong (and I’ve had Cessna drivers snap at me for entering via the overhead) I think we as RV pilots should play to the least common denominator in the pattern. Put another way, even though the overhead is the more efficient manner of entering the pattern, when I hear a flight school Cherokee or visiting Citation on the CTAF frequency I’ll often spin it a couple more turns prior to starting my pattern entry for the initial. I don’t want to make someone uncomfortable with my pattern entry even if I can assess that I won’t cause any inconvenience (or even perceived safety issue) to that other aircraft. And while I love the overhead for a number of reasons it likely doesn’t make sense for all types of aircraft to use it (ie 172 versus an RV-6), so when I’m flying that rental 172 I fly in a manner that makes sense for the environment I’m operating in. Personally I like to enter via the overhead, break over the approach-end numbers (looking down at the numbers and then “through” the rest of the pattern to confirm I’m visually clear), and then fly the remainder of my approach at idle power. I started flying gliders at age 12, and this energy management practice every time I land also builds the confidence that were I to lose the engine for real I can safely and professionally land my bird. As we say in the Navy, the answer for almost everything in aviation is always: “it depends”!
 
so does everyone follow roads because the engine might quit. i guess i have a hard time justifying a tight pattern because the engine might quit. conforming to the present traffic makes more sense.
 
bobnoffs said:
so does everyone follow roads because the engine might quit. i guess i have a hard time justifying a tight pattern because the engine might quit. conforming to the present traffic makes more sense.
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one problem seems to be, is its never conforming. everybody seems to add just a bit to the guy in front of him and the next thing you know the 747 is flying a smaller pattern. i tend to blame flight instructors, they have students fly a bigger pattern initially to give the student more time to adjust, but that just ingrains the bigger pattern from the start. (law of primacy) i also think the newer generation of flight instructors are fearful of slips and stalls and most really don't have much experience flying the outer edges of the box, so they keep their students as tight in the envelop as they can. this leads to shallow turns in the pattern. i have heard some that preach no more than 20 degrees of bank in the pattern.

bob burns
RV-4 N82RB
 
bobnoffs said:
so does everyone follow roads because the engine might quit. i guess i have a hard time justifying a tight pattern because the engine might quit. conforming to the present traffic makes more sense.
Click to expand...

Frankly, I probably would if I cruised at 800' AGL (pattern alt at my airport). Pattern vs cruise is kind of night and day difference. At a mile up and 160 knots you have all sorts of options; 800' and 90 knots, not so much. If I chop the power at 90 knots and abeam the numbers in my 6, I need a relatively tight pattern to make the field and that is at idle vs a dead engine. Maybe the 12 has better glide performance.
 
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Walt said:
Personally I think the overhead is not appropriate around most GA airports and many folks that use it do so at the expense of others in the area/pattern.
Pretty much the only folks that I ever see use it are RV guys, why is that? (Rhetorical question).
The guy that calls for the initial is really asking everyone else to get of the way cause here I come.
Just my 2c.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, in the examples you cited Walt did the aforementioned pilots overtly state “get [out of] my way, here I come”? I’m not trying to be smart, but perhaps folks entering via the overhead vice 45 to the downwind is just two ways to execute a different (but entirely legal) pattern entry.

Frankly sometimes I crave the challenge of managing my energy and spacing to first do no harm (and let things proceed as before in the pattern), but also manage my pattern entry so I can safely and expeditiously recover my aircraft (or formation). The overhead isn’t some sort of flex or dunk on anyone else’s skillset, at least the way professional aviators should be executing it!

I guess what I’m really trying to say is a lot of time I try to assume positive intent - more often that not a misunderstanding is just not that, be it on the highway or in the airport traffic pattern..

Oh and Happy 2024 to all! Thanks to Doug our host and everyone here for making VAF the special place that it is for everyone who loves RVs!!
 
Ironflight said:
I read very often that people hate the uppity, “me-first” attitude exhibited by RV pilots, and my heart sinks….most of us are well-behaved, responsible aviators. So please don’t be “that guy” that gives everyone else a bad name.

Paul
Click to expand...

Bingo, and unfortunately I hear the same thing Paul...

Defensive flying is key people.

As far as pattern size, I teach my students to make it big enough that they have time to think/stabilize on final but if the engine quits we better be able to make it back to at least the grass around the runways. Of course that's my home field; like anything in aviation, it depends/ is variable and the ultimate goal is to teach them to think about individual situations.
 
My airport is similar to the OP- many airplanes on training missions flying patterns that seem to get larger with each additional 172. My typical entry is a modified overhead break- the break point (the crosswind) is picked to sequence into the upwind/45/straight-in traffic. Practicing slowing down to 75 knots anywhere in the pattern helps with sequencing, and sometimes I end up practicing the 3 degree glide slope by dragging it in on a long final. The final escape hatch is to maintain altitude and overfly the field again. Look at the pattern as an opportunity to expand your envelope. :)

Best,
Sam
 
everyone that flies ifr or at night will experience the 800 agl cruise with engine out yet it is an accepted thing to do
 
I was taught most of my flying early on by my father and he was adamant about staying close. When he got his Debonair he wanted longer wider patterns. I always tend to stay close as that was my initial learning.
My airplane has the glide ratio of a sewer lid, and have experienced an engine out with it. Lucky enough to be overhead with altitude and still just made it.
So my preference is in very tight. I don't complain at my airport (towered) when we get 3 or 5 or 10 mile finals. Don't like it and will ask for a 360 to stay close IF traffic permits.
I landed after a fly-in and my hangar neighbor had taken video of my landing and claimed he almost missed it as I was so quick to the ground with no traffic.
 
Uncontrolled = Patients and Courtesy

I fly 99.9% of my flights out of uncontrolled airports. With a fairly active flight school based at home airport along with lots of antique airplanes (slow and some no radio), multiple grass runways besides the main paved, class D airspace three miles to the west and Class B airspace one miles to the east, patients and courtesy are required. Just like at a towered airport, you rarely get to fly your preferred pattern. RVs are capable of slow patterns and tight pattern. All you can do is LOOK out the window, go with the flow, communicate your intentions, and LISTEN to what others are broadcasting. Adjust to stay safe and don’t complain about other’s pattern until on the ground and plane in the hangar.
 
Pattern etiquette....

Mcmark said:
I was taught most of my flying early on by my father and he was adamant about staying close. When he got his Debonair he wanted longer wider patterns. I always tend to stay close as that was my initial learning.
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What a great thread this has turned out to be! There are so many responses I had to look at a bunch of them to figure out which one to quote! SO: I picked my favorite quote of the thread: My airplane has the glide ratio of a sewer lid, and have experienced an engine out with it.:D:D:D I had to laugh out loud at that one! I may have to use that line in the future and will credit you with the quote!

OK: I live at a non-towered airpark and my greatest source of amusement is to sit on the back deck with the hand-held radio (runway to the east of me; you can hit it with a rock if you have a good arm!) and just watch what goes on! :D:D:D We have I believe 5 training 172s on the field and are a favorite field for training aircraft from other airports to use for that famous T&G. I want to get judging cards to hold up with some landings (well THAT was almost a 4!) I get to see every pattern there is, every entry to the pattern there is and every type of attempts to get back on the ground there is. I also hear the radio chatter that I many times follow with a mumbled "WHAT??" off-radio.

First: things I hear. It is clear AC 90-66c is not a well-read piece of material. It is probably not necessary to announce you are taxiing from your hanger that is half a mile away from the runway. And do we even need to know you are taxiing from the ramp to a particular runway? Ground control would need to know; we don't. We are 5 miles out landing Erie. 5 miles where? At the blue water tower. There are two of those; which one. Any traffic please advise. See AC 90-66c. Holding at Schatz intersection. Where is that? It might be on your low-altitude IFR chart but is NOT on the sectional. Most VFR pilots are not going to know where you are! We'll be doing a GPS approach and circle to land 16. What is that? Red and white Champ on downwind. See AC 90-66c. A small sampling

Things I see: Rare to see the overflight, teardrop turn back to do a 45 entry to downwind. Typical: overflight and occasionally turn WAY out there into where the pattern really isn't. Two miles from the runway is not a tight pattern. I mostly see this in high-powered plastic airplanes (type not divulged) which come screaming into the pattern, which is also the usual type to blow the Class D airspace that is 1.5 nm from the end of runway 34. They had to add "don't blow the Class D airspace" to the AWOS as there were so many incursions (over 200 a month!!) There are two high-powered aerobats that routinely do overhead breaks but are very considerate of the traffic. And are fun to watch! There are three turbine jump planes that operate from a near-by airport that like to do straight-ins if they can but are VERY considerate of the traffic. I have extended my patterns to let them in. They are on the clock!

So my preference is in very tight.
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That's the way I was taught but I will fit in with the traffic unless they are WAY out there; then I will ask them and make sure they know what I am asking to land ahead of them, or do a 360 for spacing, which I sometimes have to do to not blow the Class D airspace trying to follow them! :eek: Sometimes I'm nearly to the hangar when they finally land!;)

Tight patterns do several things for me: If I am in the Cub, the space between the struts about at the jury strut is how long my landing rollout will be. In SuzieQ it is about the cord of the wing as I look at the runway. So: my patterns are consistent even if I am at a strange airport where I don't know where "the roads" are. I announce 5 miles out in the Cub ('I'll be there in 5 minutes' so they know when to start looking for me) and 10 miles out in SuzieQ. The -4 is actually easier to fit in traffic than the Cub as her range of pattern speeds is more variable.

SO: I try to be very considerate of what other airplanes are doing, even the fast plastic types. I am announcing but not overly so. My next transmission is 2 miles out in the Cub and 5 in the -4 and announcing the traffic I have in sight and where I am fitting in. I call downwind, turn to base and turn to final and ALWAYS look up runway to see who is landing downwind! (Ask me about the white Cassut sometime....:eek:)

Bottom line: Be considerate. LOOK AROUND!! As my WWII instructor Dad would say: 'A sore neck is better than a broken one!' Our airplanes can do amazing things when needed in the pattern. Following the 'red and white Champ' is doable. Did I mention be considerate? And be predictable. Others should be able to figure out what you are doing...

Happy New Year! Fly to some new places!
 
Nice right up Michael. You covered all the bases well, and there are many. I’d fly with you anytime.
 
Nice write up ... lots of good points and observations there.

From the point of view of one of those airplanes that come "blasting" into the pattern, my call at 5 miles will catch a lot of others off guard when they don't realize not everyone is traveling at 85 kts. Or MPH. 5 miles at 145+ kts gets me there quick, and I consider it my responsibility to ensure that my pace gets me to the pattern in order to fit it. Established traffic in the pattern has priority and I will need to adjust. Usually works, sometimes requires a 360 (horizontal or vertical as required), but it's not our place to barge into the 2 mile abeam, 4 mile final pattern :confused: My first choice is just to go somewhere else and come back later after the training dies down a bit.

Regarding the overhead entry or the like, if I can sense the confusion on the radio (pretty easy to do) about my entry, I'm very careful to make it clear and follow up on any queries. Or just go away ...

And I do like to stay tight. Engines quit, airplanes fall. Just sayin'
 
To everyone- I have learned so much by reading each response! Thank you! I never thought my simple question would generate so much good information. One of the things that humbled me was after I sold my RV-8, I purchased a Cessna 140A to knock around in. I had to "unlearn" some habits that I had picked up when flying the RV. I had become spoiled by the excess HP the RV had available.

I flew with an instructor who gave a good demonstration of how important it was to fly the airplane you are in, not the one that you used to fly :)

Patterns in the 140A were VERY different than those flown in the RV...both were a lot of fun, but they required different techniques. I came to truly love the 140A for her smiles per gallon ratio!
 
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