I believe they have their TWTT programs approved by the FAA on their other airplanes, so I imagine that is what they are working towards with this. If that is the case, DAR signoff should not be an issue.BUT will they or anyone that does TWTT find a DAR or FAA Inspector that would be willing to even look at it?
I would guess 1800 hrs x $50/hr=$90,000. It would take about 16 people working 8 hr days for two weeks. Then paint.
Plus engine, interior, avionics, prop, etc.
They have done over 175 TWTT airplanes and they have not had any issues with the FAA, the FAA sent a team out from Washington DC to monitor the program and found no violations.
Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10
Do their customers get a Repairman's Certificate?
Good on ya. You have more integrity than some of your peers.As a DAR, I will not have anything to do with TWTT airplanes.
As a DAR, I will not have anything to do with TWTT airplanes.
In their defense, a guy built a slow-build -6 and flew it in two or three months, IIRC.
All the tools and parts are laid out in their assembly sequence and pro's show you how it all fits, with little to no plan-reading.
We have a school in Georgia where you work 6 10 hour days and take a completed empennage home with you. It can be done,
Best,
This is effectively a production aircraft. It is built in a production plant in an assembly line. How is this any different from a Cessna? Call it what it is, a production plane and not an owner built plane. Same plane, same result for the TWTT owner, while maintaining the spirit of the Experimental category.
Otherwise, the TWTT owner will get the same repairman's certificate that I will get after I spent 6 hard-fought years of blood, sweat, and tears (literally) earning the same.
IMHO basically, this is just another means of cheating that is so rampant in society today. In sports, this is called cheating by doping or steroids.
Can you imagine having the TWT MD or JD or PhD program? Give me a break!
There is just a lot of money paying to get things done faster
As a DAR, I will not have anything to do with TWTT airplanes.
Hi
There is a company in Brazil (www.flyer.com.br) that builds and flyes an RV in a month. It enters the assembly line and in 30 days it is ready to fly with paint and panel. The company delivers about 8 units per month. The RV10 costs U$ 215K without avionics but with brand new lycoming io540 and cs prop. and the queue is somewhere between 12 and 18 months. They are tested before delivered and have warranty. Finishing is amazing, leather interior. I am a happy owner of one of those 10s!!
Besides the whole RV line, they also build and sell other models such as Extra 200, Tecnans, Kolb Flyer, glastars, sportsman and so on.
Moura
Is the TWTT program consistent in spirit with 21.191 part g below? Particularly the phrase "assembled by persons who undertook the construction project solely for their own education or recreation."? That's the part about the program that I question.
That is indeed the part I have a problem with. In my opinion, this type of program undermines the intent of the amateur-built rule!
From: http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/ultralights/amateur_built/amateur_regs/
Is the TWTT program consistent in spirit with 21.191 part g below? Particularly the phrase "assembled by persons who undertook the construction project solely for their own education or recreation."? That's the part about the program that I question.
As somebody who is close to a Sportsman (and its builder, before he passed away) I'll chime in here with a little reality check. The owner of this aircraft made no bones about saying that the time he spent at Glasair was probably the most physically and mentally exhausting time of his life. And this guy was a double PhD. He spent some time in advance of the build working on scraps of aluminum etc and he told me that once he got to the factory he was shown what good workmanship was like, and was forced to work to that standard or better - nothing less was acceptable. This, I think, was the best part of the build because he learned humility, and he developed an intimate relationship with rivets and some of the tough spots on the airplane that demanded perfection, even when he had to be a contortionist to reach the workspace.
If I was on the fence about doing this program, that right there would have sold me.
... The FAA has "blessed" this approach and it is clear that the company is playing by the rules. ...
I'm just back from OSH. I had never considered building my own plane until a friend of mine who has built an RV and is working on a second one suggested looking into it. I did some reading on the Van's web site and saw that they were giving rides at OSH, so I took a demo in an RV-10. Very impressive, even though the demonstrator was minimally equipped and dressed up.
I'm posting because I also looked at the Glasair Sportsman, and found the idea of the TWTT program very compelling.
I understand the concerns others have expressed about involvement in the project and the spirit of amateur aircraft. I also, however, look at my own situation and know that without something like TWTT it will never happen for me. I live in an apartment far from the airport and I have a busy life. I love flying, and now for the first time in my flying career am starting to see the opportunities in experimental aviation. I can make adjustments in my life, but not what I think it would take to complete a multi-year airplane building project. I could see dedicating a two week vacation to a rigorous program rather than spending ridiculous amounts of money to go to an overpriced resort and do nothing. I value life experience more than "things".
Should I just reject the idea of flying an amateur built aircraft as being out of reach, or should I consider the TWTT program as an opportunity to experience something new and worthwhile?
and therefore as the future owner I don't think you'd really be qualified to make decisions about maintaining and repairing the airplane when the risks go up and you're in the air.
Someone who purchases an already flying Experimental is allowed, per the letter and spirit of the law, to make these exact decisions. As I'm sure you know, the only thing they cannot do is sign off the yearly Conditonal Inspection.
I'm opposed to the TWTT because I'm actually building a QB -10 and I (we) know there is no absolutely no way you are building the airplane.