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Trouble installing wings

WilsonRV12

WilsonRV12

I'm New Here
Hello everyone!
I recently bought an RV-12. I watched the previous owner start the plane (0 flying hours, .6hrs on engine) prior to purchase so I know it starts/runs. The problem is, to get her home I had to load her on a trailer (taking the wings off for transport). I have tried installing the wings however I'm off by 1/4" at most to be able to put the pins in. To me, it looks like the size of the seal that's not allowing me to get the pins in. Because of this (assuming) I'm unable to start the engine.... Do I need to heat the seal in order to close the gap to install the pins? Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any ideas/suggestions!
 
WilsonRV12 said:
Hello everyone!
I recently bought an RV-12. I watched the previous owner start the plane (0 flying hours, .6hrs on engine) prior to purchase so I know it starts/runs. The problem is, to get her home I had to load her on a trailer (taking the wings off for transport). I have tried installing the wings however I'm off by 1/4" at most to be able to put the pins in. To me, it looks like the size of the seal that's not allowing me to get the pins in. Because of this (assuming) I'm unable to start the engine.... Do I need to heat the seal in order to close the gap to install the pins? Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any ideas/suggestions!
Click to expand...
Hi Wilson--

Cold weather does make the wing root seals seem stiff as steel, and they could interfere with fitting the wings & pins, but if the wings are off by 1/4" -- or even 1/8"-- there's probably something else interfering with alignment, as the seals don't expand & compress that much. I know you tried and tried, but my first recommendation would be for you and your helper(s) to do more wiggling up & down and & pushing. With the wings inserted as far as they'll go, reach into the bronze bushings with a fingertip to determine which way the wing needs to move, and how much, to get the holes in the spar bushings to align with the holes in the bulkhead bushings.

Since the wings were already fully installed, you know you don't have to remove metal. You might try using an exhaust pipe expander tool to help align the spar & bulkhead bushings. I haven't had to do that, but I have used a rubber mallet (gently) to persuade one wing pin to go in fully.

Good luck!
 

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I'm with Chris on the thought that if you have a 1/4 there is an alignment problem. In a way this is probably good news because it's just a matter of identifying it as opposed to something out of tolerance or that needs a bunch of force. I never had much trouble getting my wings on, and when I do it's usually a matter of lifting on the tip of one wing or another. There is kind of a sweet spot where things will slide into place and it's a little more dihedral angle than what is intuitive. Lift the tip, wiggle, and shake. If you have a helper that does this with you a few times you'll get a feel for it and it gets easy.

Take a close look at the connectors for the lights. There is a stationary side and a floating side and they are opposites on each wing. Sometimes these will not line up. You can reach in from the front and encourage it a little bit if necessary, but make sure your helper out on the wing tips isn't pushing or wiggling.

I did need to use the muffler expander the very first time I put my seals on. At that point the misalignment was just enough that you could feel it with a fingertip but not something that would have measured at 1/8" or bigger.
 
WilsonRV12 said:
Hello everyone!
I recently bought an RV-12. I watched the previous owner start the plane (0 flying hours, .6hrs on engine) prior to purchase so I know it starts/runs. The problem is, to get her home I had to load her on a trailer (taking the wings off for transport). I have tried installing the wings however I'm off by 1/4" at most to be able to put the pins in. To me, it looks like the size of the seal that's not allowing me to get the pins in. Because of this (assuming) I'm unable to start the engine.... Do I need to heat the seal in order to close the gap to install the pins? Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any ideas/suggestions!
Click to expand...
WilsonRV12 said:
Hello everyone!
I recently bought an RV-12. I watched the previous owner start the plane (0 flying hours, .6hrs on engine) prior to purchase so I know it starts/runs. The problem is, to get her home I had to load her on a trailer (taking the wings off for transport). I have tried installing the wings however I'm off by 1/4" at most to be able to put the pins in. To me, it looks like the size of the seal that's not allowing me to get the pins in. Because of this (assuming) I'm unable to start the engine.... Do I need to heat the seal in order to close the gap to install the pins? Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any ideas/suggestions!
Click to expand...
Howdy there;

Question is were the wings ever fitted and or installed by the builder? If not you will need to fit them yourself. Put both wings on with a stand under
the tip of each wing. See how much space is there at the hole pin. You will need to trim the edge of the wing to get it further in? Both sides to get the pins in.
 
Thank you everyone for replying, I really appreciate the advise.

I need to make a correction to my original post as I over "guesstimated" how much I'm off. It's more in the aera of 2-3/16ths. Just enough off (for both wings) that the Pin will not go in with my son wiggling/lifting (he's 18 and a good sized kid) as I push and gently "motivate" the pin with a rubber mallet.

@csmith3603, yes, the wings were fitted and mounted when I bought the plane and the pins/wings came out/off very easily.

I really think, because It's likely this is the first time the wings have been off for several years that the seals are just too hard (and it being pretty cold doesn't help).

One idea I had was to take a heat gun and blow dryer and try to get the seals more malleable. Worst case, I pull the seals of the fuselage and apply new ones (really don't want to have to do that because they look to be lining up so perfectly right now).

Please, keep the ideas/experience coming. I'm going to go back to the plane on Sunday (11 Jan 26) and try the list of ideas everyone gives me. y'all are awesome!
 
WilsonRV12 said:
I need to make a correction to my original post as I over "guesstimated" how much I'm off. It's more in the aera of 2-3/16ths. Just enough off (for both wings) that the Pin will not go in with my son wiggling/lifting (he's 18 and a good sized kid) as I push and gently "motivate" the pin with a rubber mallet.
Click to expand...

This sounds more like exhaust expander territory. Harbor Freight.
 
CTCole said:
Hi Wilson--

Cold weather does make the wing root seals seem stiff as steel, and they could interfere with fitting the wings & pins, but if the wings are off by 1/4" -- or even 1/8"-- there's probably something else interfering with alignment, as the seals don't expand & compress that much. I know you tried and tried, but my first recommendation would be for you and your helper(s) to do more wiggling up & down and & pushing. With the wings inserted as far as they'll go, reach into the bronze bushings with a fingertip to determine which way the wing needs to move, and how much, to get the holes in the spar bushings to align with the holes in the bulkhead bushings.

Since the wings were already fully installed, you know you don't have to remove metal. You might try using an exhaust pipe expander tool to help align the spar & bulkhead bushings. I haven't had to do that, but I have used a rubber mallet (gently) to persuade one wing pin to go in fully.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
Just to make sure I understand the pipe expander idea/approach, I'm just using it to pull the small gap on one side (I'm thinking on the pilot side first as that's the first side the pin goes through) to get the pin on the other side. Once one pin/wing is installed the other side should go right in? Am I thinking about that correctly?
 
WilsonRV12 said:
Just to make sure I understand the pipe expander idea/approach, I'm just using it to pull the small gap on one side (I'm thinking on the pilot side first as that's the first side the pin goes through) to get the pin on the other side. Once one pin/wing is installed the other side should go right in? Am I thinking about that correctly?
Click to expand...
Yeah the expander is just to get them to align not to expand.
 
Check and see if the builder cut out the seal where it goes over a rivet. If not that will prevent the wing from seating properly
The seal needs to be pared away so the seal is totally flat or that little bit will give you the problem you described
 
The exhaust pipe expander is for minor alignment correction. Using lots of wrench torque could possibly damage the bushings. Another method of pulling the wings together is to use a ratcheting tiedown strap tied to the wingtip hand holds. Use a heavy rope extension if needed. The tiedown strap goes from a wingtip, over the cockpit, to the other wingtip. Of course the canopy is open and out of the way. Both the pipe expander and tiedown strap could be used at the same time.
 
If you have any glider guys around, ask them how they align their wings. I use a hard nylon pin, with half the pin cut away. Then you turn the pin and the other part pulls the wings together. Hard to describe will try and post a photo later.
 
I don't have my wing seals installed yet as I'm not finished building, but I had trouble installing my wings for the first time and finally relented and tried the exhaust pipe expander. It's so easy that it doesn't make sense to do it any other way. I'm very careful to tighten it only until I start to feel a little resistance, but then the pins just slide in. Unfortunately, Harbor Freight no longer sells the smaller expander needed for the RV-12, but Amazon came to the rescue.

I'd be interested in trying the nylon pin approach, too. I could see that being just as easy, and I'd prefer it to the expander for its simplicity. Would you be willing to share more details about the pin and how you shaped it?
 
Installing the wings on my aircraft can be a pain as well, but I always manage it. One thing that helps me is after the wings are on I've taken a fine sharpie marker and made alignment marks that help me get them in position instead of using a mirror to look at the bushing alignment.
 
BobRv4 said:
Here's a photo of my glider alignment pins, not sure they will work on a 12. Made from hard nylon or similar plastic.
Click to expand...
That's actually what I was in envisioning. That looks like it would work as long as you start with the correct sized pin and shave/cut away enough to fit in the hole, then turn to pull the wings in. Thanks for the share.
 
If your wings have been properly fitted exactly per the plans, you shouldn’t need any extra tooling to install them. A second person to help with a bit of jiggling and the pins should at best need a light tap with a dead blow hammer. Look really carefully at the end of the spar that sits under the nylon block. That is where a lot of misalignment problems begin. A bit of careful trimming in this area may help. Took me a few tries to get it just right.
Remember those pins are supposed to be removable. Too much installation force, you may struggle to get them out sometime in the future.
Cheers DaveH
 
Great news! I was finally able to get to the plane with all of the suggestions given here to install my wings. With the warm weather, the seals weren't as stiff, plus, I bought an exhaust expander kit (Harbor freight doesn't sell the smaller size). Armed with warm weather and the expander, I was able to pull each side in without any issues and place my pins! PINS ARE INSTALLED!
With that said, I hopped in again and tried to fire it up. Even with the pins in place, I'm still getting the "sparge" override light. undetered, I pressed the bright red button while turning her over. After some trying, she fired up again! I let it run a bit before it was lurching and wanting to go fly (keep in mind, this would be her first flight, AND, I don't have my PPL yet). Worried, I called it quits.
My question to you geniuses, why is the sparge override light still showing? I'm assuming, it needs to run through the computer checks to validate the pins are in fact in.... Am I wrong?
With all of that said, I'm just super happy to have her back together and to have her running. After I get back from my VERY near deployment, I'll give her more love and be able to dedicate my time to getting my PPL and have her in the air finally after all these years (start build, 2008).
 
If your 12 has the original magnet and reed switch set up for the spar pins, that would be the best place to begin troubleshooting. It’s a simple circuit, no computer magic involved. The original switches were replaced with normal type switches in an upgrade. The proximity of the switches to the magnets is fairly critical. Many owners have had to do some careful tweaking to get the switches to work just right. The Adel clamps holding the switches seem to often be where the problem lies. Some have made up different clamping setups to get the switches as close to the magnets as possible.
Good luck, and my congratulations on your new aircraft.
I’m 15 years into my RV12 build. If I could just get a month off work,I’d have it in the air. I’ll get there sooner or later.
Cheers DaveH
120485
 
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WilsonRV12 said:
why is the spar pin override light still showing?
Click to expand...
The plans are wrong. The magnet and magnetic reed switch need to be parallel with each other, NOT perpendicular. The switch could work as designed if lucky. But it will work much better when the switch and magnet are parallel. Figure out a way to mount the switch parallel with the magnet so that each end of the magnet is near each end of the switch.
 

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bobg56 said:
Replace the proximity switches with the mechanical ones, I believe its in a Service Letter...
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You are correct that there is a service letter allowing an upgrade. We did on our 2014 RV-12 and the mechanical switches are so much easier to troubleshoot. The magnets were a neat idea, but troublesome.

If you decide to upgrade, I'm glad to send photos to help you with the process.
 
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