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Talk me into/out of Beringer wheels/brakes

gotyoke

Well Known Member
I don't have more than a couple months to decide. Primary considerations:

  • Initial cost ($5k extra, maybe more)
  • Long-term costs (no flats, better brake durability, but they cost more)
  • Maintenance headaches (I understand you don't need to repack bearings)
  • Replacement part availability (what if Beringer goes out of business someday?)
  • Resale value (decades down the road, ideally)
  • They look cool
  • What else?

Since it probably matters, my mission pretty much exclusively has me landing on hard-surface runways with plenty of length in fair weather.
 
Beringer

I never touched any other brand but here's a few other things to sway the choice.
Beringer manufacturers brakes for motorcycles, cars and a racing division. I doubt they will go out of business.
Beringer masters are adjustable. Easy to install and adjust pedal position.
Beringer brake lines are braided. Simple to make but TS Flightlines sells a full package. I made mine and the lines from parking brake to the wheel are one piece. No Vans connections. Fewer points of failure. If you plan to fabricate your lines, buy a few more "Olives". Mistakes happen. Also buy a few extra copper washers. They are the seals like power steering lines on a car.
I added the Beringer "T" to connect to the Vans reservoir installed FWF.
I did not install the Antilock brake valve. Too many points of failure. Hope it doesn't bite me.
I did not install the two Beringer reservoirs. Too much trouble to fill separately.
Wish I could have deleted the unused items but I got a fabulous deal on the kit. Not disappointed.
Wheels and calipers were simple to install
 
Approximately 9lbs weight savings mostly due to going to tubeless tires I believe.

Call Aircraft Specialty or meet Steve at OSH who is there now. I was able to get all my deletes for my 14A which helps reduce the cost.
 
SenseAir

You can remotely monitor the air pressure without removing the wheel pants or cutting a hole in the side of the pants, priceless.
 
My company maintains several aircraft with Beringer brakes. While they work they are great. The pads are not nearly as readily available as Cleveland, nor are the discs. The discs also take much longer to change. Changing a tyre ideally needs a special press, although they are not difficult to make. The wheels have a large O-ring inside that should be changed at each tyre change.
May be an idea to hold pads and wheel O-rings in stock for the day you need them right away.
 
Beringer is the best period. Beringer is the most expensive, very expensive. Too much for me to justify. Going with stock rims, brakes. The old saying you get what you oay for? OK fine but I need something round to roll on and something to stop me. The Beringer looks fantastic but they are hidden under wheel pants it takes some of the bragging rights away... Also RV's land slow and are light, so braking is less critical than a fast landing SE retractable hot homebuilt of factory built aircraft. I flew some certified planes that had marginal brakes for weight of the plane. RV's barely need to use the brakes on landing.

Bottom line Beringer does offer value in that there are clearly things that are superior to stock. You have to decide if it is worth it. If money no object order your kit sans brakes and rims and get Beringer. People do it for cars all the time, spend ridiculous amounts of money even though the stock rollers work fine. There are things about stock wheels and brakes I don't like, but nothing good maintenance will not prevent.
 
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I don't have more than a couple months to decide. Primary considerations:

  • Initial cost ($5k extra, maybe more)
  • Long-term costs (no flats, better brake durability, but they cost more)
  • Maintenance headaches (I understand you don't need to repack bearings)
  • Replacement part availability (what if Beringer goes out of business someday?)
  • Resale value (decades down the road, ideally)
  • They look cool
  • What else?

Since it probably matters, my mission pretty much exclusively has me landing on hard-surface runways with plenty of length in fair weather.

BIG cost
No flats? I’d like to see that in writing…lol
Beringer probably will stay in business
Resale? You aren’t going to extract the acquisition cost
Yes, they look cool…too bad you won’t see them under the wheel pants

I opted for the matco solution. Very happy with them. They absolutey will stop the airplane, great customer service, and less than 1/3 the cost of beringer.
 
Pants

I just found another minor issue.
The caliper is a tad proud of the pant. I had to relieve the area and layup a new area. Minor repair.
 
I have tried to find a source for Beringer Wheels and Brakes, and can find them advertised, but can not find the kits. Spruce lists a kit for *' wheels, but nothing of 6". Anyone have a source?
 
I have tried to find a source for Beringer Wheels and Brakes, and can find them advertised, but can not find the kits. Spruce lists a kit for *' wheels, but nothing of 6". Anyone have a source?

See post 12, bought mine from Steve. Excellent service.
 

See post 12, bought mine from Steve. Excellent service.
Well, okay call me a dummy.

I don't know where post 12 is and I don't know Steve.
 
Well, okay call me a dummy.

I don't know where post 12 is and I don't know Steve.
Click on the title in the message dmattmul forwarded. See post #12 there. Steve is half of TS Flightlines, aka Aircraft Specialties. Great people/company.
 
Nothing wrong with Cleveland brakes. Will save the $ and spend it on something else that is totally unneeded

The following is the published brake kinetic energy (KE) ratings in 1000 ft- lbs.

Cleveland 185K
Grove 277K
Matco XLT 225K
Matco XT 337K
Matco XTE 450K
Beringer 500k

Might be worth reviewing. Beringer used on Cirrus SR series and Vision jets. The anti-lock feature is also nice but possibly over-kill in our RV's.
 
Bob on post #7 (upper right corner o each post) has a very realistic and unbiased info. I have had two sets of Beringer on two of my planes. Yes they are better but not sure if they are worth the so much more cost. Tires are more expensive and more limited in option since they are tubeless. Brakes are definitely better but Grove/Matco are plenty sufficient.
On the other hand, you get bragging rights that you have these cool looking wheels under your pants.
 
I have yet to use them, but I went with GROVE 5" WHL AND BRK 56-213 for my 14A. These are an upgrade from the Van's standard set. The standard set is a single cylinder calipers, the upgrades are a dual cylinder, with obviously greater braking force. I can't speak first hand, but a friend with a 14A was having some brake fade with the original Van's spected set, and has now upgraded to these. When I talked to Grove about the upgrade, they told me that they are not a fan of what Van's includes in the kit. It will get the job done, but less than ideal. The cost delta is negligible (assuming you can delete the standard brakes). So if you don't go Beringer, at least give these upgrades some thought. I am not sure if you can delete the standard ones from the kit. I would hope so, as Van's does when you go with Beringer.
 
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They look great but who cares if you never see them under the wheel pants. Here are some cons for Beringer that haven't been brought up. They are tubeless tires so if you get a flat somewhere you will not be able to fix it and good luck finding a local supplier for tires. To change a tire you need a special press that you need to fabricate or purchase from Beringer so even if you patched or found a new tire you still need the press to change it. The tires are more expensive. The pads do not last as long and are more expensive than Cleveland and Matco. To bleed the system you need to unbolt the master cylinders and hold them horizontal. They use DOT 4 or 5 (I can't remember which) brake fluid instead of hydraulic fluid. Brake fluid is hygroscopic so the system needs to be flushed every year or two.

There is nothing wrong with the Cleveland and Matco brakes that most RV's have been using flawlessly for many years. Going with Beringer is a luxury without any true benefit. There is no problem you would be curing by going with them.
 
The tires can be easily remove with sight foot pressure to break the bead no tool required. Been running Beringer with senseair for 2 years and Radcolube, zero issues. They use to off a discount for EAA members who are the 1st in their chapter to order.
 
folks over a hangar with them... tried for an hour to get the brakes to bleed. What the heck? Called and asked and found out that's "normal", keep bleeding. Took hours.
 
I don't have a technical argument to offer, but I do have a philosophical one.

It sounds like you want to build with the Beringer brakes, but you're seeking approval from others to do it. This kind of second guessing yourself is not necessary. You are on the long road of building an airplane. You should be building exactly the airplane that you want, not the airplane that others think you deserve or can justify. Not the airplane that gives the right answer on a spreadsheet. It's the airplane you have dreamed of building.

I think you want the Beringer setup. Go for it!
 
I was told 7lbs. That's a lot. Maybe not worth the cost, but I bought in when they first released the kit and also got a discount.
Another data point for what it's worth.
folks over a hangar with them... tried for an hour to get the brakes to bleed. What the heck? Called and asked and found out that's "normal", keep bleeding. Took hours.
It helps to disconnect the masters and prop them up horizontal.
 
They look great but who cares if you never see them under the wheel pants. Here are some cons for Beringer that haven't been brought up. They are tubeless tires so if you get a flat somewhere you will not be able to fix it and good luck finding a local supplier for tires. To change a tire you need a special press that you need to fabricate or purchase from Beringer so even if you patched or found a new tire you still need the press to change it. The tires are more expensive. The pads do not last as long and are more expensive than Cleveland and Matco. To bleed the system you need to unbolt the master cylinders and hold them horizontal. They use DOT 4 or 5 (I can't remember which) brake fluid instead of hydraulic fluid. Brake fluid is hygroscopic so the system needs to be flushed every year or two.

There is nothing wrong with the Cleveland and Matco brakes that most RV's have been using flawlessly for many years. Going with Beringer is a luxury without any true benefit. There is no problem you would be curing by going with them.
1) Yes, they do look great but that is a minor reason people use them:
2) Yes, they are tubeless. I carry a spare in my travel bag along with a light duty bar-clamp, jack-point, .041 safety wire, 6 mm Allen, and inner O-ring. Hydraulic lift every airport has one close-by.
3) You don't need a press just a light duty bar-clamp. Very easy to break the bead.
4) Most people I know who use tubes use Michelin Airstops. Check pricing for these plus a tire.
5) As far as pads not lasting as long can you reference where you obtained this data? On average I get ~ 400 cycles on my tires and pads and that is on asphalt with runway lengths between 2,200 ft and 3,700 ft the later my home airport with power lines on one end and tall trees on the other. 2 Vans builders that I know quite well we now have over 2,000 cycles and not a single issue. (Fingers crossed) They now have a patented pad design that is said to triple the pad life compared to their old pads.
6) Bleeding is a 10-minute job and yes easier to disconnect the master's which I have never had to do in 800 cycles.
7) True tire pressure and temperature measurement without a single point of failure as stem mounted sensors have.
8) Considerable lighter than others on the market
9) Anti-locking feature works excellent!
10) And last Beringer brakes on Vans aircraft, Cirrus airframes and tons of certified aircraft DO NOT use DOT 4 or 5 but MIL-PRF-87257 a synthetic hydraulic fluid used in certified aircraft systems.

Brakes, tires and wheels are one of the weakest parts of our airframes. I'm willing to pay extra to increase my margin of hassle and safety.
 
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I was told 7lbs. That's a lot.
It is going to be much more than 7lb because you won't be able to afford going to those $100 hamburger runs anymore and therefor will not gain as much weight, hence much lighter in the long run.
 
Sounds a lot like rationalizing to me! LOL

I have the matco brakes. They work incredibly well, side by side with a beringer aircraft you could not tell the difference without removing the wheel pants. I have almost 500 hours and 4 years in them and have not changed the pads yet. Flying into and out of a 2800’ asphalt strip. Using Royco hydraulic fluid…and substantially cheaper than the beringers.

It comes down to this: Build what you want! The beringers work fine and cost a ton. The matcos work fine and are less than half the cost.
 
on my Rv-10 I liked the idea of a tubeless front wheel and better bearings so upgraded that but used the vans supplied Grove mains. I think a good combination.
 
I replaced the Matcos on my -6 with Beringers a few months ago. I was tired of the uneven pad wear and rattling due to sloppy clearance on the guide pins. I was going to go with Grove but was able to get Beringers for a bit less cost as Grove if new Michelin tubes were included. So even with the more-expensive tubeless tires, it was basically a wash.

I used the original Cleveland master cylinders which worked out great (though Beringer recommends against that), and they require slightly less pedal pressure to achieve the same braking force as before. I bought them through AS Flightlines. Couldn't be happier with my choice.

The old Matco below. Notice the cocked piston and wedge-shaped pad. The piston is clearly not centered on the pad, causing the uneven wear.

1728086483142.jpeg
 
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I always get a kick out of folks explaining why they don't like the more expensive option when shopping for something. They rarely just say "I don't want to spend the extra money". There is nothing wrong with wanting to save money. I just wish people would be honest and say that up front. Everybody here knows which brakes are better quality and have better performance. The question to ask is - if all the brakes from each company were free, which would you choose? Then you just need to decide if you want to pay for it.
 
I always get a kick out of folks explaining why they don't like the more expensive option when shopping for something. They rarely just say "I don't want to spend the extra money". There is nothing wrong with wanting to save money. I just wish people would be honest and say that up front. Everybody here knows which brakes are better quality and have better performance. The question to ask is - if all the brakes from each company were free, which would you choose? Then you just need to decide if you want to pay for it.
So you are implying the beringer product is better than the matco product because it looks pretty?

Do you also drink anti freeze because it looks like Mountain Dew? Lol

Do you have data that supports the pretty ones performing better? If so, please post.
 
So you are implying the beringer product is better than the matco product because it looks pretty?

Do you also drink anti freeze because it looks like Mountain Dew? Lol

Do you have data that supports the pretty ones performing better? If so, please post.
I didn't say anything about the appearance of Beringer or any other brakes. Maybe you were replying to somebody else?
 
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Huh? I think you replied to the wrong person. I didn't say anything about the appearance of Beringer or any other brakes.
Post #28

It was implied; "...don't like the most expensive option..." and "...Everybody here knows which brakes are better quality and have better performance..."

OR

Maybe I just read it wrong; that could easily be the case.
 
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