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Storm just hit SnF.

While adding my heartfelt sympathies along with the rest, I was wondering if anyone has heard how all those who were tied down at Plant City, Zephyhills, and the other "feeder" airports for SnF fared in all this. There are usually a LOT of aircraft at those airports too.
 
dutchroll said:
I don't have a photo of it, but we saw one aircraft where it was still anchored to the tiedowns, except the wing had snapped anyway.

IMG_3831.jpg
Click to expand...

This is Bob Barrows Bearhawk Patrol. Bob is the designer of the Bearhawk line of airplanes.

Bob is a great guy and it's so sad to see this plane, and others, on their backs.
 
Aircraft Damaged at Sun ?n Fun

Copied from the EAA website: http://www.eaa.org/lakeland/

March 31, 2011 (5:39 p.m. CDT) - We know that many of you are concerned for your friends and family members who may have flown their aircraft to Sun ?n Fun; we share your concern for the hardships they may be going through as the staff, volunteers and members at Sun ?n Fun work to recover from the damage inflicted by the storm. Based on a review of photos from a variety of sources, including a slideshow posted by EAA Multimedia reporter Brady Lane, we can share this list of damaged aircraft with you. It is by no means complete, but it does represent a significant number of the aircraft damaged by Thursday?s severe thunderstorm.

Name/Description - N-number
Helio Courier - 60JA
Aviat Husky - 43WY
Cessna 208 Caravan - 171CC
Zenith CH-701 - 71ZA
AirCam - 912LA
AirCam - 612WF
Zenith CH-801 - 801PP
American Champion 7GCBC - 54BY
RV-6A - 155ED
RV-3B - 12XR
Maule MX-7-180B - 11ZV
Eclipse EA500 - 94GA
Acey Duecy P-70 - 426AM
971BP Big Piet - 971BP
974BP Big Piet - 974BP
840LM Big Piet - 840LM
Lightplane - XB-ALE
Zenith CH-750 - 750ZZ

No N-number visible:
2 Thorp T-18 homebuilts
Cub lightplane
Black and Purple lightplane (UL area)
White with Red Trim lightplane (UL area)
High-wing Yellow Husky or Super Cub pushed into White RV
Yellow and Black ?Kitfox? (?)
Camo Nanchang in Chinese markings
Blue T-6 in ditch
Grey Cessna L-19 in ditch - Markings too small
 
Gary Baker said:
No N-number visible:
2 Thorp T-18 homebuilts
Cub lightplane N260DS Donald Stokes, Crocket, TX
Black and Purple lightplane (UL area)
White with Red Trim lightplane (UL area)
High-wing Yellow Husky or Super Cub pushed into White RV
Yellow and Black ?Kitfox? (?)
Camo Nanchang in Chinese markings
Blue T-6 in ditch
Grey Cessna L-19 in ditch - Markings too small
Click to expand...

The "Cub" is a Texas Sport from Crocket TX, built by Don Stokes.
 
From today's home page:
Friday, April 1, 2011.* 1050z
*** Storms damaged aircraft and buildings at SnF Thursday.* I'll update the links throughout the weekend as more become available.* So incredibly sorry for the folks there that were impacted.* Link below for those that can offer help.
d98gy3iuhi34h.jpg
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be great to find out all the pictures were Photoshopped and that this was all just an elaborate April Fools Day prank?

Wish that it were. Wish that it were.

--Stephen
 
Lets just hope peoples planes that survived are checked properly before they fly home. after watching the videos there are going to be some damaged control runs/surfaces etc. lets hope this does not lead to a tragedy :(

Dave
 
Dave Stephens said:
Lets just hope peoples planes that survived are checked properly before they fly home. after watching the videos there are going to be some damaged control runs/surfaces etc. lets hope this does not lead to a tragedy :(
Click to expand...

I was thinking that too, and hope that I'm just being a worry-wart here and stating the obvious.

For everyone who's repairing damaged ailerons/flaps/tails/etc to fly them home, please check every inch of all your push-pull tubes and various control linkages with extreme scrutiny to make sure there's no hidden damage that could show up in flight.
 
Gary Baker said:
Copied from the EAA website: http://www.eaa.org/lakeland/

March 31, 2011 (5:39 p.m. CDT) - We know that many of you are concerned for your friends and family members who may have flown their aircraft to Sun ?n Fun; we share your concern for the hardships they may be going through as the staff, volunteers and members at Sun ?n Fun work to recover from the damage inflicted by the storm. Based on a review of photos from a variety of sources, including a slideshow posted by EAA Multimedia reporter Brady Lane, we can share this list of damaged aircraft with you. It is by no means complete, but it does represent a significant number of the aircraft damaged by Thursday?s severe thunderstorm.

Name/Description - N-number
Helio Courier - 60JA
Aviat Husky - 43WY
Cessna 208 Caravan - 171CC
Zenith CH-701 - 71ZA
AirCam - 912LA
AirCam - 612WF
Zenith CH-801 - 801PP
American Champion 7GCBC - 54BY
RV-6A - 155ED
RV-3B - 12XR
Maule MX-7-180B - 11ZV
Eclipse EA500 - 94GA
Acey Duecy P-70 - 426AM
971BP Big Piet - 971BP
974BP Big Piet - 974BP
840LM Big Piet - 840LM
Lightplane - XB-ALE
Zenith CH-750 - 750ZZ

No N-number visible:
2 Thorp T-18 homebuilts
Cub lightplane
Black and Purple lightplane (UL area)
White with Red Trim lightplane (UL area)
High-wing Yellow Husky or Super Cub pushed into White RV
Yellow and Black ?Kitfox? (?)
Camo Nanchang in Chinese markings
Blue T-6 in ditch
Grey Cessna L-19 in ditch - Markings too small
Click to expand...

Tony Spicer's RV-3B is sitting on top of Bob Japundza's (RocketBob) RV-6. Very sad to see and heartfelt condolences to all involved.
 
Tornado

Gents. I was there and it was an aweful feeling I dont care to experience ever again. I was sick as well of people taking pictures, videos too...it was GORE to me but I am glad some did record this for others....At the moment I was just sick of the misery I was witnessing! The police came around and asked us to take cover...another was coming..at that time we decided to leave. Glad we did! The parking lot was muddy and barely made out of it. We drove back to charlotte directly sick of the whole scene!......On the way back home I got a call from Bill (RED) Crothers asking if I was still there to help Tad and his RV7A..unfortunatelly I wasnt!

As for tie downs...It did not matter at all what you had..All the Zenith and Huskies had The Claw...I saw some completelly pulled out of the ground and the aircraft right next to untouched. i also saw lots of aircraft with the cork screw type and same results.....Lots of videos on You tube,,,,you can see the Zenith with the claw intact and the two others with the same sytems upside down....one over the Eclipse!
 
A thought-

I was wondering if there were any vendors that actually had aircraft hardware to help those in need of repair. Back in my old racing days, there were trailers (BSR, Hutchinson/Pagan, Banjo Mathews) as well as others, that had alot of needed items. Of course, that was before we started taking alot of spares with us.
Putting spares in an airplane isnt going to happen, but if someone like Spruce or GAHCO were onsite with skin repair material, rivits, an AIR COMPRESSOR, you know the things we have in our shops and hangars, that would make a big difference. Obviously, the more damage, the less likely of a quick fix.
I've noticed alot of members of this forum have offered rudders, flaps, even complete empenages. Perhaps there is a way to do this.
Suggestions???
Tom
 
Airshow Tiedowns

As for tie downs...

anyone that has been to OSH or LAL knows that the first thing that happens when you park is they come by and tell you tie down your aircraft...with yours or their expensive ones. I don't think tiedowns and tornadoes are compatible.

Pete
 
Peterk said:
As for tie downs...

anyone that has been to OSH or LAL knows that the first thing that happens when you park is they come by and tell you tie down your aircraft... .
Click to expand...

And as is so terribly evident by this disaster, there is a reason for that.

Peterk said:
I don't think tiedowns and tornadoes are compatible.

Pete
Click to expand...

Of course not....

But, consider is you will, that IF there were NO planes tied down at all, would there have been;
1. More planes damaged?
2. More planes destroyed?
3. More damage for the planes only damaged, not destroyed?

The idea of using safety devices is to prevent what we can prevent.....

Unfortunately, some things are not in our control.

But, some things are.
 
Mike S said:
But, consider is you will, that IF there were NO planes tied down at all, would there have been;
1. More planes damaged?
2. More planes destroyed?
3. More damage for the planes only damaged, not destroyed?
Click to expand...

IRRELEVANT POST....you cant park at S&F if you dont have a tie down..All aircraft are forced to be tied down either by your own provided devices or at some ready available to you for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
For all the active and retired fire/police folks
on this forum, I have a dumb question:
What parameters are used to decide where
tornado sirens are installed. I don't believe
either OSH or LAL have any warning system.

Thanks,
Tom
 
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With all the radar available, iPhone with web access, are people saying that there was ZERO way to see this storm coming?

After the fact (two hours) I looked at radar and the line of storms extended west to the Gulf.
 
RV-3B also offered

f1rocket said:
Tony Spicer's RV-3B is sitting on top of Bob Japundza's (RocketBob) RV-6. Very sad to see and heartfelt condolences to all involved.
Click to expand...

Tony,
I can't think how parts between the unique RV-3Bs can be transferred but Junior stands ready to donate if you have a need for anything in our project. Just let us know.

We, of course, are glad to help if we learn a way that we can be useful. Our hearts ache for all of you who suffered losses and we're so glad no one was seriously injured.
 
Ron Lee said:
With all the radar available, iPhone with web access, are people saying that there was ZERO way to see this storm coming?

After the fact (two hours) I looked at radar and the line of storms extended west to the Gulf.
Click to expand...

We all had enough warning. Some were able to mMove their aircraft indoors.
However not Enough space. Most of the airshow guys did... All were unable to fly out. Imc conditions and strong winds were present all morning. There was no way to prevent this. All the cells were north on orlando. This one creeped from the west and made a mess in Tampa as well
 
tomwebster said:
For all the active and retired fire/police folks
on this forum, I have a dumb question:
What parameters are used to decide where
tornado sirens are installed. I don't believe
either OSH or LAL have any warning system.

Thanks,
Tom
Click to expand...
I have to blame s&f here...all movement warnings were from word of mouth, our own iphones,ipads,gps w.nextrad, etc.....nothing from any oficials or on the PA System. Even after the storm hit and rumors of a second one coming. Total lack of coordination or comunication to the masses
 
IRRELEVANT POST....you cant park at S&F if you dont have a tie down..All aircraft are forced to be tied down either by your own provided devices or at some ready available to you for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


The city of Lakeland has an ordnance that all aircraft must be tied down, and yes, they are very strict on this. It's a rule, and we need to follow it.

I am the chairman of the aircraft tie downs, and it never ceases to amaze me that a man will spend thousands on building his plane, but won't spend $25.00 to keep it in place. Now I will say that nothing will gaurentee that your plane will stay put during a tornado, but I will say that most of the tiedowns did keep aircraft from being damaged, and after the first cell went thru, I was out providing them at no up front cost, and I am proud to say that all of the RV drivers paid up today, and they were mighty glad tio see me.

This is my $.02 for what it is worth. (don't shoot me)
 
which was best?

actually both the claw and the dog type don't work worth a flip in sandy soil. However, I did see instances where the dog type held, and the claw didn't, and the other way around. One plane had two sets of claws, didn't hold, and the plane next to it had dog type, and it held. Just luck I guess. However anything is better than nothing, and is looked upon favorably by the ins. co.
 
Another question. A friend of mine has fabric wing covers that have a rib that runs spanwise that is supposed to keep the wing from flying. I wonder if that would have made any difference in not pulling the tiedowns out of the ground. Sounds logical to me that if there was no upward lifting motion then maybe a few more planes would have stayed put. Any thoughts?
 
Not police or fire

Most larger Counties have an "Emergency Services Department." Police and fire are usually involved in disaster planning but the decisions as asked are usually for the Department head. Very involved process. In our County, Maricopa in AZ it is a huge department with many divisions.

Think about it. Tornados in this region are extremely rare (and at this time of the year.) Not sure sirens or warning systems would have ever been considered there. If they did and they went off, what could you do? Really nothing. Can't move the plane, not too much hard shelter.

This is something that really scares me about Oshkosh. Although, weather research shows that tornado chances are minimal at that time of the year. And, in reality, if there were horns and they went off, where would you go or do? Based on this event, I wonder what the Emergency plan for a similar weather phenomena would be for OSH?



tomwebster said:
For all the active and retired fire/police folks
on this forum, I have a dumb question:
What parameters are used to decide where
tornado sirens are installed. I don't believe
either OSH or LAL have any warning system.

Thanks,
Tom
Click to expand...
 
rv9aviator said:
Another question. A friend of mine has fabric wing covers that have a rib that runs spanwise that is supposed to keep the wing from flying. I wonder if that would have made any difference in not pulling the tiedowns out of the ground. Sounds logical to me that if there was no upward lifting motion then maybe a few more planes would have stayed put. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...


There was a guy with a Cherokee at the airport I used to work at and he couldn't get his plane out prior to a hurricane. He tied it down using chains, and put a row of sand bags down the wing with the thought being that the sand would get water logged, the bags wouldn't blow away, and it would keep the wing from flying. I'll be damned if that little Cherokee wasn't still sitting there after the storm and two of it's neighbors broke free.

However he knew well in advance that the storm was coming, wing covers like that to tote around everywhere would be pretty impractical in an RV, not to mention cut into your useful load and really play with your aft CG.
 
For What it's worth department

I was present during the storm in the HB HQ building. and SNF had forwarded tornado watch and warnings to all pilots with A/C on the field around 8-8:30AM Thursday. The real problem arose as mentioned previously in folks unable to depart thursday AM. The earlier forecast on Mon, Tues, & Wed. all predicted heavy Wx on thursday so those who chose to depart
Wednesday had a definite advantage. I literally cried when I saw the damage in HB after the first storm had passed. Mother Nature was cruel on thursday
for sure. :eek:
 
Just a couple of comments from a local....

This part of the country is officially in it's drought season, so storms like this, while they do occur, are fairly rare. Anyone watching NEXRAD would have noticed the line was very thin, however hit LAL perfectly. NWS announced today no less than 19 tornadoes hit the Tampa Bay Area, and were either visually observed, or observed on radar.

There was a lot of non-aviation related stuff flying around. My co-worker has the awning from the local Texaco station in his front yard. The physics dictate that even a small object with little mass can pack quite a punch if it's velocity is great enough, so anything flying around striking an A/C would wreck havoc.

At KPCM, my home base and I volunteer as a ramp guy for SNF, there was only one aircraft damaged. It was largely cosmetic, and was actually in a hanger (spinner was damaged by a moving door, and was replaced by COB Friday). There was an issue with the temporary air control tower as it was picked up and moved some 30 yards (with the ATC guy in it!). They also lost the antenna and cable for their base station. While they were operational on Friday, I heard complaints from several guys coming in that the signal from the tower was very weak.

One additional observation, the TFR over LAL was adjusted at the last minute on Friday. This left a bunch of folks out in the cold trying to get in. Many of them came into KPCM as a result, and several were unaware that there was a tower. Also, the UNICOM at KPCM changed two years ago, and lots of folks missed that using old data bases, and not looking at the charts. Fortunately, everyone lined up pretty well on their own, and the FAA was very forgiving. Several pilots went over and apologized once they realized their error.

For those who came into KPCM unexpectedly, we appreciated your patience in getting you situated. BTW, every year I've worked out there the air space has closed unexpectedly early at least once during the week. Forewarned is forearmed.
 
rv9aviator said:
Another question. A friend of mine has fabric wing covers that have a rib that runs spanwise that is supposed to keep the wing from flying. I wonder if that would have made any difference in not pulling the tiedowns out of the ground. Sounds logical to me that if there was no upward lifting motion then maybe a few more planes would have stayed put. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/aerospoiler.php

This? Its basically a giant spoiler, and looks like that in combination with tiedowns it'd really help keep your plane from loading the tie downs too much.
 
Similar but the one I saw was a slip cover that covered the wing on a low wing aircraft that had the spoiler built in on top.
 
Sig600 said:
There was a guy with a Cherokee at the airport I used to work at and he couldn't get his plane out prior to a hurricane. He tied it down using chains, and put a row of sand bags down the wing with the thought being that the sand would get water logged, the bags wouldn't blow away, and it would keep the wing from flying. I'll be damned if that little Cherokee wasn't still sitting there after the storm and two of it's neighbors broke free.

However he knew well in advance that the storm was coming, wing covers like that to tote around everywhere would be pretty impractical in an RV, not to mention cut into your useful load and really play with your aft CG.
Click to expand...

The one I saw had the spoiler built in 12-18 inch sections sewn into the slip cover. I folded up nicely and probably only weighed a 3 to 5 lbs. I wonder if they are still being made.
 
Back

I have the 6A that Don Stokes' Legend Cub went into. Lots of pics of this since we were easily visible to the media through the fence. Don had the Fly Ties that did not hold in this situation, but my chain system that the 152 folks taught me a few years ago held my plane and his both. I got away with only dents and scratches, but his beautiful new cub was in pieces.
 
ExtraKatana said:
I have the 6A that Don Stokes' Legend Cub went into. Lots of pics of this since we were easily visible to the media through the fence. Don had the Fly Ties that did not hold in this situation, but my chain system that the 152 folks taught me a few years ago held my plane and his both. I got away with only dents and scratches, but his beautiful new cub was in pieces.
Click to expand...

Let's hear about your chain system...
 
chain

You basically create a claw out of (3) 12"-14" medium strength chains. Gather them with a hardware-grade Caribiner and stake with 12"-14" spikes from Lowes. $20-$25.
I'm sure there were some claws that pulled out, but I think it was the best device out there. The claw doesn't allow the spikes to bend through the ground since each spike must retain its downward and in angle. I just had these chains left over from my 152 and continued to use them. When they pulled don's cub away, they had to cut my ropes :) I think it's all about covering the most amount of ground and going deep with the spikes.

It's worth noting that the ground was pretty saturated at SNF before the Thursday storm....it had rained all week on and off.
 
Sun n Fun aftermath

Rain N Pain for me

I was one of the unfortunate recipients of the tornado activity on Thursday. I along with my Team RV team mates were engrossed in preparation for our upcoming rescheduled first appearance at Sun-N-Fun 2011. When the wind began to blow I was sitting next to Mike Stewart in an Air show briefing when a text came in. We usually call these Kahuna Grams, but this one was from a teammate Dubes. It said Sleep and Stripes planes upside down. Mike whispered to me to “Go” check on your plane. When I arrived at the scene I was amazed at the sight. It was surreal. My first thoughts were, Wow, all that work, sweat and blood is gone before the echo of a whisper can die. 100+ mph winds do amazing things to airplanes tied down in wet beach sand. I bumped into Dave Herschman from AOPA. I had met Dave years ago at a formation clinic in WV. We spoke about how I felt and what this meant to me and the loss I felt.

The next day I met the insurance adjuster to the assess damage, a total loss was declared. My feelings were mixed, I lost my plane but at least it was insured and I’ll never begrudge that payment again.
While removing personal items from the cockpit I found they were not too damp or ruined. I had a Bruce’s canopy cover that at least keep the majority of the rain out. I just got the canopy last show and it’s now useless with a large rip in it.

Then the reality set in. I need to find a way home for my wife and me. My teammates had passengers so I needed to think. Several offers came around but we were headed to Orlando to spend the evening with my family, I had them come to the show on Wednesday but it was canceled and I wanted to spend more time with them.

My chance meeting with Dave came with an offer to fly back to Charlotte in a Bonanza that was headed back to Fredericksburg, VA. The plans were made and we departed the show around 3:00 Saturday, three hours later and we were back at our home airport of KRUQ. What a trip.
I’d like to thank all of you for your support, prayers and offers to do anything and everything to help.

I especially want to thank a Vendor. I picked my headset out of the plane and noticed a small but vital piece was broken that holds the ear tube in place. I took it back to Quiet Tech for repair. After a short explanation of what happened Phil took my headset from me and handed me a NEW one, I was stunned at the generosity,

A huge thanks to Dave Herschman and Tom Haines of AOPA for giving us a ride back home. This was another generous offer of help in getting us home. The outpouring of help form the Aviation community is heartfelt and very much appreciated.

Another airplane will be found to replace the one I lost, but it is just metal as I still have the memories

Tad “Stripes” Sargent
Former RV7A driver.
 
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Photo of chain system

Kyle Boatright said:
Let's hear about your chain system...
Click to expand...

Kyle, I don't know if these were installed before or after the storm but I was on-field Friday morning and took these photos at about 7am. I was impressed with the system and thought I might copy the design so I took some photos.

Hard to tell in the photo but the system uses 3 spikes like the claw does but chain instead of a hard link.

2q9j1n9.jpg


np46zk.jpg


Hope this helps visualize.
 
Yes, like that

The claw is still going to be better since the spikes are channeled in a downward angle. The chain system allows some "wallering." imagine rocking on a fence post to get it out of the ground. Anyway, the chains held for me.
 
Chain tie downs

ExtraKatana said:
The claw is still going to be better since the spikes are channeled in a downward angle. The chain system allows some "wallering." imagine rocking on a fence post to get it out of the ground. Anyway, the chains held for me.
Click to expand...

I would like to see some tests because my way of thinking has it that as pulling force is exerted in one direction the chain on that side would go slack and not provide a "backing out" of the opposite spike, as it seems to me the claw, being a solid link, might provide. Mere speculation but seems logical to me.
 
tadsargent said:
Rain N Pain for me
Tad “Stripes” Sargent
Former RV7A driver.
Click to expand...
Hey tad. Sorry about your loss. I was there too but left right after the second tornado warning. As i was reaching daytona on my way back home, bill called and told me all about it . I stii feel sick!

You and i spoke the day before and you were bummed the wed airshow got cancelled.....glad you are ok! Im back in charlotte. If i can be of any help, let me know...I totaled my bike today. I low sided my ducati stupidly and luckily i was wearing my riding gear. Other than a bruised ego and a total lost ducati 1198s, i am glad to be alive.....i syrvived a tornado on thu, and a nasty bike crash on sat.....need to count how many lifes i have left....

Debating right now if i should do my yearly spin training with bill finagin at klkr this monday, !!! What do you think?

Btw, my buddy scott is selling his rv8 you may want to consider it... He is in cary, nc...a nice one! Let meknow
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Claw footprint with the angled spike mounts work extremely well. The cross chains will not perform the same mission. Also, not having a tight rope from the plane to the fixed ground mount will cause a failure at the fixed ground mount if the tail or wing is allowed to rock back and forth or lift with wind gusts. Too many times I've seen planes loose tied with some sort of loose knot... heck you might as well not even tie the plane down. :)
 
The problem with the claw is that the metal 'legs' are made of a brittle aluminum and they break. I saw several of them that broke during this storm. I know, nothing may hold in a tornado, but the cheap pot metal legs of the claw are the weak point. Jon Thocker had two of his three claws break. It was new - he had just bought them a few hours earlier so his RV-8 was double tied down. One claw and one spiral dog-type tie down on each wing and the tail. His plane ended up in a different location after the storm. I'm not sure anything would have held in that kind of weather, although some of the RV's parked right next to the damaged ones were not damaged at all, and their tie downs held..... strange.
 
so sorry to read about see the damage

So sorry to read about the events that occurred and see the damage through these images. As with the other offers if there is anything that can be done please don't hesitate to ask...Good luck to you all...
Doug
 
S&F

Cudos to everyone involved in putting things back together. We flew in yesterday (Sat) and had a great day! Many thanks.
 
Mel said:
The "Cub" is a Texas Sport from Crocket TX, built by Don Stokes.
Click to expand...

We were camped with Don. What a guy. Very interesting fellow. We had dinner with him near the HO-tel we stayed at the night of the storm. He's now trying to decide if he will upgrade his "Cub" to a Lancair Legend (1.2 million $$). It was a beautiful airplane. He was remarkably positive.
 
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