sebc150
I'm New Here
Was scrolling through this thread and wow- what a nice panel.
And; maybe the picture is a bit blurry to tell but, to me it looks like you are doing 149TAS on 6.5gph?
wow
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- Thread starter ohiopilot
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Was scrolling through this thread and wow- what a nice panel.
And; maybe the picture is a bit blurry to tell but, to me it looks like you are doing 149TAS on 6.5gph?
wow
smokyray
Well Known Member
Bandit Upgrade
With all the OSH hubbub ongoing, small items of interest seemingly get lost in the shuffle. I missed this year due to relocating which would have been my 30th attendance. However, a great news story for me this week was the current owner of my first RV build DC “Killer” a former F18 driver shared a pic of “The Bandits” new panel. In a word, WOW! A big change from the Fly Market “very well loved” gauges previously installed back in 95’! He says an AP is in the works too!
Thanks to DC for sharing!
V/R
Smokey
With all the OSH hubbub ongoing, small items of interest seemingly get lost in the shuffle. I missed this year due to relocating which would have been my 30th attendance. However, a great news story for me this week was the current owner of my first RV build DC “Killer” a former F18 driver shared a pic of “The Bandits” new panel. In a word, WOW! A big change from the Fly Market “very well loved” gauges previously installed back in 95’! He says an AP is in the works too!
Thanks to DC for sharing!
V/R
Smokey
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Nice 
That's a nice clean looking panel Smokey! Sometimes a little facelift goes a long way!
That's a nice clean looking panel Smokey! Sometimes a little facelift goes a long way!
RV-4 panel upgrade questions....
I think what you are asking is if the panel can be replaced with the F-421 in place to maintain position for the new panel. The F-403 attaches to a manufactured (by the builder) curved angle (not sure what F- number and my plans are not handy) with rivets at the angle points (see the photograph). The panel would have to be drilled off and the new panel blank riveted to the angle. Leaving F-421 in place would make riveting difficult as you would need to buck those rivets. Once you have the old panel off, you could match the new panel blank with the old one to get an approximation as to where the rivet holes are located. Or use a few old hole positions for reference, then drill the new blank from forward to aft.
Does this help?
Smokey: what did your F-18 friend do to update his panel?
I think what you are asking is if the panel can be replaced with the F-421 in place to maintain position for the new panel. The F-403 attaches to a manufactured (by the builder) curved angle (not sure what F- number and my plans are not handy) with rivets at the angle points (see the photograph). The panel would have to be drilled off and the new panel blank riveted to the angle. Leaving F-421 in place would make riveting difficult as you would need to buck those rivets. Once you have the old panel off, you could match the new panel blank with the old one to get an approximation as to where the rivet holes are located. Or use a few old hole positions for reference, then drill the new blank from forward to aft.
Does this help?
Smokey: what did your F-18 friend do to update his panel?
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Bobstern
Member
Bobstern
Member
Thanks RoadJunkie1. That pic was quite helpful.
smokyray
Well Known Member
El Bandito Bueno!
Well, my RV4 (Bandit) tail kit arrived at my Misawa AB base house 34 years ago this week. Its current (former F18) veteran owner “Killer” has made quite a few improvements to the old girl.
Here’s an inflight pic, autopilot on staring at glass!
Mui Bueno Bandito!
V/R
Smokey
Well, my RV4 (Bandit) tail kit arrived at my Misawa AB base house 34 years ago this week. Its current (former F18) veteran owner “Killer” has made quite a few improvements to the old girl.
Here’s an inflight pic, autopilot on staring at glass!
Mui Bueno Bandito!
V/R
Smokey
RV-4 panel
I previously posted a before and after panel picture but the photo links got deleted when my account got screwed up. If you don’t mind shopping around for used gear you can save quite a bundle. Took about 2-3 years of looking, researching, saving up cash and the panel wasn’t done all at once. The thing that really set off the instruments nicely is the carbon fiber wrap I used on the panel. I think it was 3M 1080 but can’t remember as it was quite a while ago and I don’t own the plane any more. Loved the -4 and IMO it flies better than the -8 I own now. Just couldn’t stand the tilt canopy and roasting in the hot Missouri summer even with a bracket to keep the canopy propped open.
Be frugal and patient and you can get a nice panel with a little work
I previously posted a before and after panel picture but the photo links got deleted when my account got screwed up. If you don’t mind shopping around for used gear you can save quite a bundle. Took about 2-3 years of looking, researching, saving up cash and the panel wasn’t done all at once. The thing that really set off the instruments nicely is the carbon fiber wrap I used on the panel. I think it was 3M 1080 but can’t remember as it was quite a while ago and I don’t own the plane any more. Loved the -4 and IMO it flies better than the -8 I own now. Just couldn’t stand the tilt canopy and roasting in the hot Missouri summer even with a bracket to keep the canopy propped open.
Be frugal and patient and you can get a nice panel with a little work
Well, my RV4 (Bandit) tail kit arrived at my Misawa AB base house 34 years ago this week. Its current (former F18) veteran owner “Killer” has made quite a few improvements to the old girl.
Here’s an inflight pic, autopilot on staring at glass!
Mui Bueno Bandito!
V/R
Smokey
Kool. Since you sold the -4, what are you building or flying for fun now?
Following your advice Oly and being frugal & patient.
Planning the upgrade to this panel
Planning the upgrade to this panel
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The RV-4 tip-over canopy provides completely unobstructed visibility. It's the next best thing to a flying carpet. But it's not like the P-51, so who wants that? LOL..
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RV-4 visibility
Agreed completely! From the first time I lowered that canopy for my First Test Flight I was amazed at the visibility! Unobstructed in all directions, including the ability to see my rudder and elevators in my rear-view mirrors! My passengers are impressed as well. Very F-16-like! When I go flying, I find myself looking everywhere just to amaze myself with how well I can see!
I have only flown the -7 but think the -4 might be the best flying of them all! But I was born and raised on tandem seating. Tip of the Hat to -3 flyers!
I have a "taxi" position for my canopy and have never had problems with ventilation, especially with the fan running. I have two eyeball vents on the panel and good clearance with the canopy in taxi position and have never noticed it being uncomfortably hot, even in the humid Summers of East of the Mississippi. And I wear a helmet!
Give me the -4 ANY time! IMHO.....
Agreed completely! From the first time I lowered that canopy for my First Test Flight I was amazed at the visibility! Unobstructed in all directions, including the ability to see my rudder and elevators in my rear-view mirrors! My passengers are impressed as well. Very F-16-like! When I go flying, I find myself looking everywhere just to amaze myself with how well I can see!
I have only flown the -7 but think the -4 might be the best flying of them all! But I was born and raised on tandem seating. Tip of the Hat to -3 flyers!
I have a "taxi" position for my canopy and have never had problems with ventilation, especially with the fan running. I have two eyeball vents on the panel and good clearance with the canopy in taxi position and have never noticed it being uncomfortably hot, even in the humid Summers of East of the Mississippi. And I wear a helmet!
Give me the -4 ANY time! IMHO.....
The RV-4's bubble canopy is amazing. One thing I often see that is unfortunate is builders will often cut the canopy down as far as possible, to just short of hitting the rollover bar. I guess this makes the airplane a little "sleeker". But it's too bad because it makes the pilot sit way down low in the airplane and cuts off that fantastic view. I built mine leaving as much canopy material as I could so I could sit up as high as possible. This gives one the very best visibility.
This is a great thread for ideas about panel design and finish. Does anyone have photos of the panel installation from behind the panel? I am wondering about locating a few extra boxes, ie audio mixer, fuse panel, terminal strips, etc on a flat shelf. I have seen this done on other RV's but can't recall a "shelf" installed in a 4. It would be great to see a few. Attached is what I will be working with.
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Thanks @gacnik123 . Any photos of the wiring side? That is what I would like to see, the various installations.
Hi Bob,
Who is doing all the panel rework? I'm looking for someone to redo my 2007 steam gauge panel.
Thanks,
pilotyoung
Well Known Member
That is an extremely well designed and nice looking panel.Bandit Upgrade
With all the OSH hubbub ongoing, small items of interest seemingly get lost in the shuffle. I missed this year due to relocating which would have been my 30th attendance. However, a great news story for me this week was the current owner of my first RV build DC “Killer” a former F18 driver shared a pic of “The Bandits” new panel. In a word, WOW! A big change from the Fly Market “very well loved” gauges previously installed back in 95’! He says an AP is in the works too!
Thanks to DC for sharing!
V/R
Smokey
gacnik123
Well Known Member
I will have to go look on my hard drive. I had some when I changed out my transponder and installed an AV-30
Bandit Upgrade
With all the OSH hubbub ongoing, small items of interest seemingly get lost in the shuffle. I missed this year due to relocating which would have been my 30th attendance. However, a great news story for me this week was the current owner of my first RV build DC “Killer” a former F18 driver shared a pic of “The Bandits” new panel. In a word, WOW! A big change from the Fly Market “very well loved” gauges previously installed back in 95’! He says an AP is in the works too!
Thanks to DC for sharing!
V/R
Smokey
That is a nice panel! How is that lettering done?
Bobstern
Member
Chris Goodman in Hammond, LA.
Giadina Rv4
I'm New Here
My Rv4 panel... Super old style 
Man after my own thoughts!!My completed panel, basic mix, neat functional & not too distracting
A few things are different now. Update to follow soon............Attachments
LongRoadToLiftOff
I'm New Here
I'm a long time watcher, but first time poster. I'm about half way through my build of an RV-4. I just thought I would share the panel I am working on. That is a Garmin Aera 760 in the center that I mounted flush to the panel. I was surprise by how capable the Aera 760 is. The top right knob will undock it. The engine monitor is made by MGL. The fuel computer is also MGL. The transponder on the far left is made by Trig and is ADS-B out compliant. The comm in the center bottom is a garmin unit which also functions as a intercom. My goal was to keep it s simple as possible. Although, I am also adding a Garmin autopilot. I am mounting the autopilot controller in the center under the comm.
Saber25
Well Known Member
I kept my panel VFR basic, pretty much like the Cobra AH-1G I flew in Vietnam. Decades ago, my RV4 went to full glass generally after I pull into the hangar. With the tip over canopy and totally unobstructed view, I see little reason to look inside. The RV4 signals everything you need to know about your situation through the nerves in your butt, the control pressures, the sight picture and sound of the prop up front that keeps you cool.
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LongRoadToLiftOff
I'm New Here
I too like a simple basic VFR steam gauge panel, but I was surprised to find it costs more than glass these days. That’s the only reason I went the route I did. For new panels it’s hard to beat the value of glass.
I like your “glass” better though.
I like it. I love the aera 760. A lot. And you are right, it is very capable with a phenomenal display. It can also remote tune the standby com frequency on the GTR 200 any time the pilot taps on a frequency displayed on the 760's screen. You can also pop it out of the panel and take it with you and enter flight plans and update software and databases via wifi from home or in a hotel. I just bought the latest iPad pro 11 with super duper display and hardly use it when there is a aera 760 in the mix. Glad to hear you are combining this with the GFC autopilot. You don't mention it but if you are not already doing it I would add a GDL 50 or 52 for ADS-B "in" (and SXM in the case of the GDL 52). The GDL 5X works fantastic with an aera 760. My preference has always been the non-R model of the GDL 5X series combined with external antennas since it has a built-in backup battery and can easily be transferred between aircraft with extra docking brackets. I have some experience with MGL in our Pitts S1C. The previous owner installed an MGL glass panel (I don't know why one would do this in a Pitts). The MGL components worked fine EXCEPT their V10 VHF com, which was terrible complicated to set up and operate with poor audio results. It was maddening. Your choice of a GTR 200 is perfect and the 2-place built-in stereo intercom is as good as any ICS or audio panel on the market.
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LongRoadToLiftOff
I'm New Here
I have not bought a GDL yet, but I probably will. Although I believe I could take the ADS-B in data from that Trig transponder for traffic. I've not really dug into the interfaces that much yet. Although the GDL would give me Garmin Target Trend data and that probably makes it worth it. Also doesn't the GDL get data on two separate frequencies? Anyway, I suspect the GDL would be the better route vs. using the trig transponder data. I love how the 760 acts as a psuedo-backup to the G5 with its 3D vision. Both the G5 and the 760 have their own backup batteries so that makes for a lot of backup/emergency capability in the event of an electrical failure. By the way, I was also surprised the Vertical Nav from the 760 can drive the autopilot too. How cool is that! Amazing what an $1,800 portable GPS can do these days. Navigation, Traffic, Terrain, full EFB, drive the autopilot, feed the comm frequencies, pop up alerts for traffic and terrain...the list goes on. Hey, one question for you experimental G5 users. Does the experimental G5 have a pop up G meter? The manual says nothing about it, but I've seen a few references to it online. How many Gs before it pops up?
The Trig txpdr is ADSB-out only(with a GPS position source).
LongRoadToLiftOff
I'm New Here
OK...that sparked my interest. I would have swore I saw it had ADS-B in too. I broke out the manual on my transponder. The pinout on the TT22 shows "TIS Traffic Out" on pin 7. It does have some ADS-B In capability, but you have to feed it to a display via RS232. It states that it works with certain Garmin handheld displays. I still think the GDL is a better route to get Target Trend data and of course free weather data too.
.LongRoadToLiftOff
I'm New Here
Wow...that is beautiful. Nice panel.
LongRoadToLiftOff
I'm New Here
I've researched this a bit more. I think rvjl is correct and it is ADS-B Out only. Despite the TIS Traffic Output pin being on the unit, the TT21/TT22 has no TIS receiving functionality. So I assume that pin only reports my own aircraft position over RS232. I have no idea why this pin would be connected to anything. Thoughts?
There is a difference between TIS that the Trig outputs and TIS-B that an ADS-B receiver outputs. TIS without the "-B" extension is the legacy Mode S operation that picks up some ATC radar traffic information at certain terminal approach areas. Kind of the grandfather of modern ADS-B traffic system. Straight TIS only triggers an annunciation about traffic in those specific areas and is not related to ADS-B for purposes of your good question. TIS-B (with the "-B" extension) is the newer ADS-B traffic protocol that works within the USA pretty much everywhere and is a different system entirely than the terminal radar-based straight TIS. It is unfortunate they didn't name the ADS-B traffic system something completely different from the legacy TIS system to avoid this type of confusion. So the answer is no, a straight Mode S or ES transponder like the Trig does not receive any ADS-B traffic or weather. So that RS-232 TIS pin position on your transponder is kind of obsolete and getting even more obsolete every day.
On a brighter note Garmin is currently running a holiday rebate program that includes the GDL 5X series of ADS-B receivers.
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LongRoadToLiftOff
I'm New Here
I am only using breakers for critical systems like electric trim, autopilot, alternator, etc. Those will be in a row right under the autopilot controller which I am mounting under the comm. I’m still working on that. Noncritical systems will be wired to a fuse block and will only be accessible in the ground. I’m guessing this approach will spark quite a debate, but that’s what I’m doing. Best I can tell this approach does not break any FARs. If I’m overlooking anything then feel free to point it out.
LongRoadToLiftOff
I'm New Here
This was a great question. Admittedly, I have questions in my own mind which systems are really “essential for safe flight”. There seems to be two camps on this subject. One camp basically says that for a day VFR plane nothing is essential. I have seen RVs with no accesible circuit protection. I personally disagree with that view, but I recognize some have taken that stance. For me, I want the ability to quickly disconnect power from a runaway trim motor. That is absolutely “essential to safe flight” in my mind. Same for the autopilot. Where things get fuzzy in my mind are things like lighting. Every light on the plane can go out or even be shorted and if the system is properly designed that is not “essential to safe flight”. Do you need to immediately find a place to land? Yes. Does this perspective change for night operations? I know this is a very debatable topic and the only way to eliminate the debate is to put everything on its own CB, but for a VFR plane that seems like overkill.
One last topic, what are your thoughts on type 3 blade PTCs for things like lighting. It seems like a perfect compromise where cycling the power switch would reset the circuit protection.
I too went G5 ..really alot of nice functions on there, and I never had an artificial horizon in my Steam set-up.
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RogerH
Well Known Member
Curious if anyone has tried using a larger, think it's 10.6", Garmin G3X Touch in an RV-4 panel? Playing with some panel ideas and wondering if that can be done or if the lack of real estate on a -4 panel pretty much dictates a smaller 7", assuming landscape orientation, if other items like radio, transponder, auto-pilot or G-5 are also on the panel.
Still learning my way around avionics but guessing the transponder & radio can go remote so I'd just have the G3X, G-5 and auto-pilot making the larger screen possible???
Still learning my way around avionics but guessing the transponder & radio can go remote so I'd just have the G3X, G-5 and auto-pilot making the larger screen possible???
pr1malr8ge
Member
There has been several large format g3xs installed in the rv4. Examples are in the public domain so hope no one gets mad that I re-posted them here..
After many months or planning and executing, the panel upgrade is complete. I love the new panel and the AP performs flawlessly. I wanted a cost-effective yet modern VFR panel with most features. I eliminated a bunch of switches by moving them to the Infiniti stick. There’s a removable panel behind the mini-iPad that has the fuse block. My design was to go with a mix of fuses/breakers. Another design feature is to route the air vent in such a way that I can direct the airflow to the back of the iPad. Very useful for hot Florida weather.
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How did you fit the radio and transponder without them hitting the bulkhead cross member behind there?The G5 is my only sacrifice to glass, VFR and looking outside is all that’s required
I cut openings just enough for the racks, and riveted an angle across the top which is attached to the longeron on either side. Did confirm with Vans.
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