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Section 5 Deburing Instructions

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ALCpilot

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Hello,

I am new to the community, so excuse me if this has been discussed before; however, I couldn't find a post. I have been working on the practice kit included with the RV14 EMP kit, and I bought a couple of other practice kits before I get my feet wet on the real thing.

While building the practice kits, you go through drilling, match drilling, and deburring all surfaces. However, Section 5 of the builder's manual clearly states the following.

"Van's produces two aircraft kits with the holes punched final size (the RV-12 and RV-14*). No deburring is necessary; dimple
the holes and assemble the parts. These final-sized holes are manufactured using specific tooling and tight tolerances to work
with all commonly available dimple dies. By "work with," we mean that the holes may be dimpled without fear that the hole would
crack prematurely before the expected fatigue life of a conventionally drilled, deburred, and dimpled hole."

Would it be proper to think that no deburring will be needed for the 14, and is this the standard practice that everyone is following? Or is this in error thinking that the parts were laser cut and now they arent so we need to go back to deburring again? My father built a 10 and spent much time deburring all surfaces, ribs, and holes.

I would like to hear what everyone who is out there building the 14 is following.

Thanks much! Randy
 
I’m building a 12 and I deburr and round the edges of everything.

Just because a hole is punched full size means nothing, there still remains a hard edge and a slight ridge around the exit side of the hole. A quick touch with a chamfer bit makes both go away.

There are also many places on the 12 and 14 where parts get match drilled or holes get upsized. These need proper deburring as well.

Everywhere this is not done is another opportunity for stress risers and future cracks to form.
 
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No, the mechanically punched parts were supposed to be final size for the -14. However, I think there were still a few holes that needed to be match-drilled. And, some builders opted to lightly de-bur every hole despite the instructions. Your airplane, your choice.
 
The final-size holes, whether punched or laser cut, may not need deburring. You can judge for yourself when examining a given part.

However, there are still quite a bit of parts that get match-drilled from another part, or drilled specifically to a required set of dimensions, or using a template. Those holes will likely need some deburring.

No experience here with laser-cut parts but my experience was that punched parts typically benefit from some light surface deburring (particularly on the "punched out" (versus "punched in) side, and edge smoothing/deburring....
 
Section 5...

You can feel the two sides of a drilled panel and you'll easily detect the burr with finger tips and as others have said I deburr as a routine.

Theres some match drilling but far less than on the older kits.

Ian
 
For the final size punched part I tend to just lightly debur the "exit" side of the hole. It is obvious which side when looking close or just running your finger over the holes.

Anything else that gets drilled (or is laser cut) should be deburred.
 
Section 5...

You can feel the two sides of a punched panel and you'll easily detect the burr with finger tips and as others have said I deburr as a routine.

Theres some match drilling but far less than on the older kits.

Ian
 
Also, to clarify since your original post talks about deburring all surfaces, you will still need to deburr all of the edges of parts and any holes that are not rivet holes along with what was said about final size holes above.
 
Additional reasons to deburr parts are:

Safety: Un-deburred parts are like tiny serrated knives. Properly de-burred, they are perfectly safe to handle. They are also less likely to scratch other parts.

Debris: The burr edge is fragile and can break off at any time and leave tiny aluminum crumbs. These can get between parts and cause scratches or be a hazard to electronics.

Because of how parts are manufactured, parts are frequently formed with the burr side on the inside, or against the shop head of the rivets. Some parts that are Left and Right twins are formed from the same blank, and this makes one 'burr inside' and one 'burr outside'.

Also, it looks pretty.
 
I believe many people take the wrong attitude towards deburring. Instead of seeing it as a chore, I always used it as a "getting to know you" time with each part. Checking them out and getting them ino the best shape to go into my aircraft. When I had finished, I knew every part, and that is was as good as I could get it.
But maybe I'm just a bit strange.
Cheers DaveH
 
I enjoy building as much as I enjoy flying. That said, spending hundreds of hours deburring final size holes that the manufacturer instructions specifically say do not need to be done seems like over the top.
 
cgarts1 said:
I enjoy building as much as I enjoy flying. That said, spending hundreds of hours deburring final size holes that the manufacturer instructions specifically say do not need to be done seems like over the top.
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You won’t think that in the future when you are replacing parts that crack.
 
Brantel said:
You won’t think that in the future when you are replacing parts that crack.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the warning, but I'm not worried. This is my third slow build RV and I've many compliments by experienced builders on the build quality of my -14 including the DAR during the airworthiness inspection.

You may want to contact Vans and let them know that there is an error in the instructions that is going to cost thousands of people tons of money and time.
 
I wonder what the chances are that the boys over in the Phillipines building the quick build kits are "going the extra mile" ignoring the instructions in the pursuit of the "perfect build"? :rolleyes:
 
cgarts1 said:
Thanks for the warning, but I'm not worried. This is my third slow build RV and I've many compliments by experienced builders on the build quality of my -14 including the DAR during the airworthiness inspection.

You may want to contact Vans and let them know that there is an error in the instructions that is going to cost thousands of people tons of money and time.
Click to expand...

Yeah, all the not so distant SB’s for cracks inspire confidence right? You keep trusting the ever changing section 5 and then I will trust the version I got in 1998 which served me well with no cracks for many years and hours.
 
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Brantel said:
Yeah, all the not so distant SB’s for cracks inspire confidence right? You keep trusting the ever changing section 5 and then will trust the version I got in 1998.
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It's not surprising they changed the section. We all learn over time. So what? Vans aircraft are as reliable as any other. Nobody is falling out of the sky in them. As reliable and built by amateurs.
 
This is very insightful. Great thoughts!!

I was planning on getting familiar with all the parts because, for me, it's about the build and not focused on completion or get it done mentality. Although, like everyone else, the finished product is always something to look forward to. I do have another airplane to fly, both for a living and a hobby, so I won't feel like I need to quicken the process just to start flying. For me, it's just the enjoyment of all the learning that can be done throughout the whole build and the satisfaction of seeing parts come together.

I appreciate everything this FORUM provides and all the different, very valuable perspectives. Thanks to all who shared their thoughts.

Given the issues with the laser-cut parts, I wonder if Section 5 will get updated again now?? Time will tell.
 
daveyator said:
I believe many people take the wrong attitude towards deburring. Instead of seeing it as a chore, I always used it as a "getting to know you" time with each part. Checking them out and getting them ino the best shape to go into my aircraft. When I had finished, I knew every part, and that is was as good as I could get it.
But maybe I'm just a bit strange.
Cheers DaveH
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I'm like that too. I look at all the deburring as quiet time, peace and calming.
I have a routine and also I've made some personal tools to make the process easier, especially the rib flanges.

Even the punched skins I would run a calibrated finger over all the holes and find an occasional burr, you can just do a few light circular swipes with a maroon scotch brite piece to rectify.

But then again, I also Alodine all the individual parts and finish with a 2-part epoxy prime. Someone's gonna get this aircraft someday when I'm finished flying it.
 
cgarts1 said:
I wonder what the chances are that the boys over in the Phillipines building the quick build kits are "going the extra mile" ignoring the instructions in the pursuit of the "perfect build"? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I'm also curious about the answer to this question. Does anyone know if the QB builders do any hole prep before dimpling "final size" holes?
 
Dimple some unprepped punched holes and take a look under high magnification. Then do your match drill, ream, debur, polish, alodine, buff and wax, then dimple and look again...

See any difference? Will it affect the long term life of the part?

Like has been said before, a lot of builds are a journey, not an end. QB are clearly produced with the end in mind.

IMHO, I think you'll find that these QB kits will fly as long as any other. And no, I don't believe they do all the prep prescribed in the Section 5 (you can find places where the instructions say something like "in this situation, a quick swipe with a scotch brite pad will suffice for deburring").

Conclusions are left to the individual ;)
 
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