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Oil Filter Testing

rv8ch said:
I think testing a new filter will not be dramatically different from a properly cleaned one.
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Allow me to differ... the S15 pictured here has 572:54 flight hours, has been removed and cleaned at oil changes every 50 hours. The cleaning was first performed using brake cleaner and air, later switched to an ultrasonic cleaner as some crud became difficult if not impossible to clean off. Clearly there are some residues or corrosion left, and this probably impedes the filter's capacity.
 

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Dan 57 said:
Allow me to differ... the S15 pictured here has 572:54 flight hours, has been removed and cleaned at oil changes every 50 hours. The cleaning was first performed using brake cleaner and air, later switched to an ultrasonic cleaner as some crud became difficult if not impossible to clean off. Clearly there are some residues or corrosion left, and this probably impedes the filter's capacity.
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Mine don't look like that but I probably should check under a microscope.
 
Just an opinion—— I understand the concern about contaminating the machine, but I’d rather have real world results. Meaning, how do these filters work in the field after being used X number of times? I do clean them throughly with solvents, and compressed air. How will we know if that is enough?

Vic
 
Dan 57 said:
Allow me to differ... the S15 pictured here has 572:54 flight hours, has been removed and cleaned at oil changes every 50 hours. The cleaning was first performed using brake cleaner and air, later switched to an ultrasonic cleaner as some crud became difficult if not impossible to clean off. Clearly there are some residues or corrosion left, and this probably impedes the filter's capacity.
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What equipment & liquid(s) are you using for the ultrasonic cleaning? I like this idea because I inevitably make a mess when using brake cleaner and air. And I haven’t yet had the guts to put it in the dishwasher…
 
Dugaru said:
What equipment & liquid(s) are you using for the ultrasonic cleaning? I like this idea because I inevitably make a mess when using brake cleaner and air. And I haven’t yet had the guts to put it in the dishwasher…
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Oh, go ahead. It's your dish washer, too. You at least own half of it. Think of the Science opportunity here: you can pressure-test your marriage at the same time. I bet Kitplanes has never done an article on The Effects of Experimental Aviation on Domestic Stability. Could be groundbreaking. 🍿
 
I'm not so sure an ubercleaning with ultrasonic cleaners and such would be real world either. Guessing a lot get rinsed with some solvent/cleaner, dried and reinstalled.
 
strahler13 said:
I'm not so sure an ubercleaning with ultrasonic cleaners and such would be real world either. Guessing a lot get rinsed with some solvent/cleaner, dried and reinstalled.
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Probably true, but cheap ultrasonic cleaners are about $50 or less these days. I bought mine at Aldi or Lidl for about $30.
 
Perhaps some context.

Fundamentally, the ISO 4548-12 test introduces a standardized test media at a standard rate, and measures contaminant capacity of a filter (in grams of material), and its particulate removal characteristics (percentage captured of every particle size from 3µm to around 50µm), while monitoring differential pressure across the element. The test cycle is currently proposed to end at 10 psi drop across the element (69 kPad).

In the context of used vs new screen filters, the overall effect of prior contamination is predictable. The measured contaminant capacity will go down, as prior deposits will shorten the time to reach 10 psid. Put another way, there is some degree of element blockage before the test starts. That's the wildcard; we can't know the exact degree of blockage following operator cleaning. There are clearly differences between individual cleaning methods, as well as operating conditions....oil type/temperature and blow-by carbon being examples.

I have Vic's elements in hand. They don't look anything like Dan57's photos above, and Mickey says his also look different. Yet all are experienced operators.

Let's stick with new elements as the baseline. It removes the above variables, and there's no big downside, as the blockage rate will be pretty obvious from the test results. Future operators can safely assume they have less available capacity due to prior deposits.
 
jaradtke said:
This is starting to take on project creep…
They are to many variables that could be tested. We need to pick a parameter and stick with it..
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DanH said:
Let's stick with new elements as the baseline. It removes the above variables, and there's no big downside, as the blockage rate will be pretty obvious from the test results. Future operators can safely assume they have less available capacity due to prior deposits.
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Agreed. I'm thinking that there will be enough obvious difference between them that the new/cleaned question may very well become moot.
 
rv8ch said:
Probably true, but cheap ultrasonic cleaners are about $50 or less these days. I bought mine at Aldi or Lidl for about $30.
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Mickey and Dan: did you find that using the ultrasonic cleaner made a big difference in how much cleaner the element got? Probably easier way to clean it at any rate. What size basin are you using? Is the 2L large enough? I have found some in the $80+us range. :unsure:
 
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Despite agreeing that a reusable filter would be cleaned and reused from that cleaned state, I agree that all of this testing should be with a brand new filter if we can. Given the wide-reaching implications of the outcome of this test (i'm sure every amateur-built owner will see it or hear of it), we don't want anything that someone could claim taints the results.

That said, looking at the inside of an S-15 housing you'll see that it's a very smooth aluminum bucket. It should be possible to clean that to "as good as new if not better" with an ultrasonic cleaner. I can see how the tester would be concerned about trapped particles in the cleanable filter, but I suspect if you asked them they would have no issues with the housing itself.
 
excuse the thread drift DanH, really not the idea ;)

Roadjunkie1 said:
did you find that using the ultrasonic cleaner made a big difference in how much cleaner the element got?
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Yes, but it looks like at this stage a 1hr session is barely enough. I started using the ultrasonic cleaner when I realised having difficulties in getting the filter cleaned using brake cleaner and air. Using the EMAG 300 metal detergent and what we call distilled water.
 

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Roadjunkie1 said:
Mickey and Dan: did you find that using the ultrasonic cleaner made a big difference in how much cleaner the element got? Probably easier way to clean it at any rate. What size basin are you using? Is the 2L large enough? I have found some in the $80+us range. :unsure:
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I didn't see a huge difference when looking at the filter, but I saw more stuff in the cleaning fluid. I used diesel. I'm going to buy a little microscope so I can see if mine had the additional buildup that Dan showed in his photos.


I'm currently using the extremely cheap ultrasonic cleaners I got from aldi, which are about the right size for a pair of sunglasses.

www.aldi-suisse.ch

Meine ALDI SUISSE Produktempfehlung: Ultraschall-Reinigungsgerät, Gross

Ab 24.07.2023 gibt es folgendes Angebot bei ALDI SUISSE. Alle Informationen gibt es unter: https://to.aldi.in/46obRhD Viel Spass beim Durchklicken!
www.aldi-suisse.ch www.aldi-suisse.ch

I'm going to buy a slightly bigger one - probably 2 liters. I've got this one in my shopping cart, but have not yet pulled the trigger.

 
I've been running the S-15 for about 7 or 8 oil changes now, and it's been a nagging question in the back of my head about the efficacy of that filter and how I'm cleaning it. I'm certainly glad of this effort to quantify the filtration efficiency and where it stands with respect to other filters, and Dan's effort to be the ring-master.

I will likely change my operations as a result of this study, either by going back to paper filters or changing my cleaning procedures. Either way the knowledge is a positive advancement.
 
rv8ch said:
I didn't see a huge difference when looking at the filter, but I saw more stuff in the cleaning fluid. I used diesel. I'm going to buy a little microscope so I can see if mine had the additional buildup that Dan showed in his photos.


I'm currently using the extremely cheap ultrasonic cleaners I got from aldi, which are about the right size for a pair of sunglasses.

www.aldi-suisse.ch

Meine ALDI SUISSE Produktempfehlung: Ultraschall-Reinigungsgerät, Gross

Ab 24.07.2023 gibt es folgendes Angebot bei ALDI SUISSE. Alle Informationen gibt es unter: https://to.aldi.in/46obRhD Viel Spass beim Durchklicken!
www.aldi-suisse.ch www.aldi-suisse.ch

I'm going to buy a slightly bigger one - probably 2 liters. I've got this one in my shopping cart, but have not yet pulled the trigger.

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How's this 2L one look like to you? Will the filter element and other things you clean fit in this one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175968964855?itmmeta=01HPYKYW06E59WY97EX4ED7GA8&hash=item28f89150f7:g:D0UAAOSwTaZlZA7B&itmprp=enc:AQAIAAAA8JA29/LRH+NH2H2GwdSHxTBF+ULDcaeZTMJNo4lmdOIUuUO5hcWcAanqAwUJ74LAjdSRTdmN/B2EWIuJWKkaQ0c82cDENc+ksMOWBWMstSV5gfVshVqffloJUdBLaw05zfiNcvDNgjSCMNzwKxFJIdhpF/6rfhUBNlkzIkzkm0OXXajA65fJ6UOn2a6TdtQs5dsXyei7cE4hhRhH5zzszRqYHovQSzCkogUbRp4TjsZnr4nZMO8Wr6Hxvziv4Bi5cSJEr7NC+P6ikpzEauuK9vb0jDXNgCYHD0Sq93AQ6Ofu4msS5j6eOYyEHyXQCZlRJA==|tkp:Bk9SR5zA-9O3Yw
 
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hoyden said:
I have one like this I bought a few years ago to clean bicycle chains. A couple weeks ago I used it to clean my S-15. It seems to do the job with Simple Green.
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If you bought it a few years ago and it's still ticking, PLUS the filter fits, then even though I don't have one of those filters yet, I'm ordering it for other things for now. Thanks
 
I know, getting off track for this tread.

My wife would kill me if the filter ever made it into the dish washer, so I did the next best thing. Cut open a dish puck, put about a quarter of it in a mason jar with boiling water and added the element. Shook it up and let it sit overnight submerged. The next morning the water looked dirty and the element came out clean. Hot water rinse and a dry with a heat gun it looks new. On my 2nd year and 6th cleaning next weekend and see no reason to change. I have been watching the material to see if there is any impact from the detergent and none so far. I did the recommended clean on the first wash and it still looked like crap. My dad turned me on to the detergent method. He used it to clean up his kitchen stove grates.
 
Finally got around to getting my K&P filter from the hangar and bought a cheap "magnifier" for my iphone. I discovered it's a bit harder to take photos of something that's got depth than I had thought. In any case, I can't find any crud in the filter after the sessions with the ultrasonic cleaner. Next oil change I'll take more before and after pictures.

IMG_1036.JPGIMG_1029.JPGIMG_1026.JPG
 
Cth6 said:
The next morning the water looked dirty and the element came out clean. Hot water rinse and a dry with a heat gun it looks new.
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Did you use a heat gun or did you mean you dried it with an air gun (air hose) maybe? My heat gun doesn't have that much air pressure to blow out anything before the heat quickly dried up anything left over and caked it into the filter.
 
rv8ch said:
Finally got around to getting my K&P filter from the hangar and bought a cheap "magnifier" for my iphone. I discovered it's a bit harder to take photos of something that's got depth than I had thought. In any case, I can't find any crud in the filter after the sessions with the ultrasonic cleaner. Next oil change I'll take more before and after pictures.

View attachment 56900View attachment 56901View attachment 56902
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Mickey, IIRC you have 2 of them S15 which you swap at every oil change... mind telling us of many flight hours on the one you're publishing pictures of?
Just as a reminder, the pictures I posted above are on that filter alone, and that has been used for close to 573 hours...
 
Dan 57 said:
Mickey, IIRC you have 2 of them S15 which you swap at every oil change... mind telling us of many flight hours on the one you're publishing pictures of?
Just as a reminder, the pictures I posted above are on that filter alone, and that has been used for close to 573 hours...
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Yes, correct, I have two filters that I swap out when changing. I'd have to check my logbooks and I'm too lazy to do that right now, still working on the first coffee, but that filter has less than 100 hours for sure, and probably closer to 60.
 
Pilot135pd said:
Did you use a heat gun or did you mean you dried it with an air gun (air hose) maybe? My heat gun doesn't have that much air pressure to blow out anything before the heat quickly dried up anything left over and caked it into the filter
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I do shake it a few times to get the bulk of water off. I have a water purification system that gets rid of most of the hard minerals. But, yes I use a heat gun on low to speed up the drying process. I have not noticed any ill effects.

With the small amount of water left on it, drying naturally or with a heat gun will have the same outcome. If there is any minerals they will stay on the membrane regardless of how fast the media is dried.
 
Cth6 said:
If there is any minerals they will stay on the membrane regardless of how fast the media is dried.
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Have you tried a air gun? I would think that air under pressure will both dry it and also blow out any impurities still there after you shake it dry.
 
Progress Report...

First, again allow me to say this outfit is pretty darned amazing. We have 100% pledge fulfillment...every person and company who promised a contribution came through. We had many additional offers too, all much appreciated. Final quote was $6040 in lab costs. I'll track all expenditures and report in due course.

The checks have been deposited, and the nice lady at the lab has my credit card number. Unless something changes, I'll be visiting there late next week, with all the filters under my arm. Please be patient. I don't know when they will actually run them.

Speaking of filters, please thank Jon Friedemann and Phil Sprang for their contributions of virgin screen filters, an S-15 and a Challenger respectively. Guys, I'll get 'em back to you when we're done.

Applause time...the contributor list:

Barrett Precision Engines - Rhonda Barrett
CamGuard - Eric Anderson
Bill Lane
Mark Van De Bogert
Chris French
Marietta Goodloe
Marriner Smith
Danny Keel
Glenn Martin
Phillip Sprang
Jeff Point
Scott Hersha
Larry New
Luis Orozco
Nancy Burkholder
Mike McKenna
John Bixby
Jeff Radtke
Marvin McGraw
Steve Smith
Mike DeMarino
Caleb Tennis
Jerry Morris
Greg Niehues
Rolf Unternaehrer
Scott Card
David Setser
Greg English
Gary Sobek
Steve Hamer
Peter Baker
Dwight Mattmuller
Warren Moretti
Jim Wampler
Mickey Coggins
Rob Prior
Richard Connell
Kyle Rodrigues------
Al Dyck
Arthur Fabre
Doug Geib
Bill Boyd
Neil Clay

Filters:
Jon Freidemann
Phil Sprang
 
Don't worry about me. I'm curious like all the rest.

Do send thanks to Rhonda (Barrett Precision Engines) and Eric Anderson (CamGuard and Aircraft Specialty Services). They too are curious...and picked up half the lab bill.
 
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