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Oil Filter Testing

DanH

Legacy Member
Mentor
It's the new year, so let's get 'er done...

Subject is oil filter testing.

Specifically, we're hiring a respected test lab to run ISO 4548-12 filter tests on a Champion 48108, a comparable Tempest 48108, a Wix 51515 (aka NAPA 1515), and a K&P S-15.

Previous discussion here: https://www.vansairforce.net/threads/reusable-oil-filter.207816/

I've obtained multiple quotes, and settled on a highly respected lab familiar to many engineers here on VAF.

ISO 4548 is an international standard. The test procedure determines the contaminant capacity of a filter, its particulate removal characteristics and differential pressure. The above filters all have a built-in bypass valve, so the tests run until the bypass opens, or until element collapse. When done, we'll know a lot about our filter choices.

This is a cooperative effort with multiple contributions. Total cost is $5285, plus the cost of the filters themselves. Barrett Precision Engines ( https://www.bpaengines.com/) and Aircraft Specialties Services (as CamGuard, https://aslcamguard.com/aviation/) have generously agreed to pick up more than half the tab. Both are very interested in oil filtration; Barrett engines have a reputation for longevity, and Aircraft Specialty Services manufactures and/or markets a wide line of quality aircraft engine parts. Our own Doug is in; although Barrett is an advertiser, currently CamGuard is not. However, given the generous support, their appearance here is welcomed, plus a crowd funding effort (more in a moment) is approved. Kitplanes magazine is also in, and will publish an article in due course. Marc understands the magazine won't have an exclusive, but none the less has offered author compensation sufficient to cover incidentals.

Which brings us back to VAF. Full results will be published here first, but to make it work, we need that crowd funding. Specifically, we need to raise $2285 in cash, minimum. Contribute as you please (and every nickel is welcome), but it would be relatively painless if we had 23 contributors at $100 each. I'll collect, and be responsible for paying SwRI. I assume you folks trust me. It's about the same as the beer fund for the Vans Social, where I've been the bag man for more than a decade.

Do not send money yet. For now, pledge your contribution via the "Conversations" feature. For those not yet familiar, just click the silvery prop spinner on the left (or my name), then click "Conversations" to send a note. When we hit $2300, I'll be back here to say stop, and (unless you wish to be anonymous), I'll publish a contributors list.

EDIT, 1/17/24: STOP. We're now fully subscribed. Well done gentlemen.

I've already ordered the Champion and Tempest filters from Aircraft Spruce, on the grounds that we'll be testing representatives from the open market. I'll buy a NAPA 1515 at the local store, same deal. We need a few extra dollars for a K&P S-15, or a generous contribution if someone has one they will not be using.

That's all for now.
 
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I'm really excited about this. Especially with the K&P in the mix. Lots of folk lore and individual preferences on various auto filter suppliers - be great to put some actual data behind all that. PM sent.
 
I’m in, but how do I do this “conversation” feature you recommend? I see the Conversation button on the envelope icon at the top, but do I “start a new conversation”? Seems to be the only option.
well, finally figured it out (I think). Clicked on your name icon. Looks like a new conversation, but apparently it’s right.
 
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I'm really excited about this. Especially with the K&P in the mix. Lots of folk lore and individual preferences on various auto filter suppliers - be great to put some actual data behind all that. PM sent.

That's the idea, for sure!

I’m in, but how do I do this “conversation” feature you recommend? I see the Conversation button on the envelope icon at the top, but do I “start a new conversation”? Seems to be the only option.

Click on my name, left side of this post.
 
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I feel like we're about to leave the Dark Ages; We'll finally understand the nature of matter and stop attributing things we don't understand to witchcraft and god's will...
 
Exorcism...one of my many services.

Ok gang, that was quick. We're now fully subscribed with total pledges of $2365.

More in a bit.
Would there be any value in adding an Amzoil filter? They have always claimed better filtration
 
Would there be any value in adding an Amzoil filter? They have always claimed better filtration

We can add filters, but they are an additional $1510 each. I picked the four current brands because they are the most popular among RV'ers. The particular models were chosen because they all have a bypass valve, with valve opening or element crush as logical test end points. We may safely assume the filtration element is the same in bypass and no bypass versions of the same basic model, for example, 48110 vs 48108 Champion and Tempest, or Wix/NAPA 51515 vs 51647.
 
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Exorcism...one of my many services.

Ok gang, that was quick. We're now fully subscribed with total pledges of $2365.

More in a bit.
Awesome! I can't wait to see the results. You picked the right lab!
 
A round of applause for our contributors please. In absolutely no particular order, we have...

Skid
Jetmart
Phil Sprang
RV6Flyer
Richard Connell
M McGraw
dmattmul
ctennis
scsmith
larrynew
ge9A
sprucemoose
Scott Hersha
Scott Card
rc dude
jaradtke
rv43135
RomeoMike
Luis Orozco
jbDC9
finack
RV8iator
shamer
hoyden
danny
rolf
gasman
rv8ch

Ok, gang, let's get it done. I'd prefer a check in the mail to:

Dan Horton
162 Dogwood Ridge Drive
Wetumpka, AL 36093

A few folks have asked about PayPal's Friends and Family. I've long declined to link a bank account to PayPal and eBay, so withdrawals are a pain. Typically small funds just sit there until I buy something. So please, use it only if you must, and kindly add 3% if you use a card. Account is my email, danhorton (you know what goes here) elmore.rr.com
 
Edit: I see the K&P S15 is a very similar unit and is already being tested so please disregard the rest of my post below!

I would be really interested to see how one of the Challenger CP48108C re-usable filters ($345) would compare (or one of the Challenger-like knock offs like the PC Racing PCS4C ($149)).

With Dan's agreement, I'd be will to put up $100 towards adding one the comparison. Would anyone else be interested to do the same? Looks like we'd need about 35 more people interested enough to cover the costs of adding both to the testing.
 

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I think
I would be really interested to see how one of the Challenger CP48108C re-usable filters ($345) would compare (or one of the Challenger-like knock offs like the PC Racing PCS4C ($149)).

With Dan's agreement, I'd be will to put up $100 towards adding one the comparison. Would anyone else be interested to do the same? Looks like we'd need about 35 more people interested enough to cover the costs of adding both to the testing.
View attachment 54302View attachment 54303
I think the K&P S15 is essentially the same as those. So in effect, already being tested. Unless someone can articulate a clear difference between the Challenger and the K&P, this seems redundant.
 
I think

I think the K&P S15 is essentially the same as those. So in effect, already being tested. Unless someone can articulate a clear difference between the Challenger and the K&P, this seems redundant.
Thanks for pointing this out! The eyes saw "K&P" but old the brain saw "K&N" and I just assumed it was another disposable filter type like WIx / Napa. Will change my post!
 
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We can add filters, but they are an additional $1510 each. I picked the four current brands because they are the most popular among RV'ers. The particular models were chosen because they all have a bypass valve, with valve opening or element crush as logical test end points. We may safely assume the filtration element is the same in bypass and no bypass versions of the same basic model, for example, 48110 vs 48108 Champion and Tempest, or Wix/NAPA 51515 vs 51647.
Wow that went quickly! If it can be done, and there are enough interested in testing the K&N HP1002 filter I would be happy to start with a $110 contribution. I have been using the K&N on both my O-320s and O-360 since purchasing a right angle filter adapter from Casper Labs. Bill recommended that filter as he said it was originally a certified filter (can't remember the original manufacturer). He said that when it was acquired by K&N they kept the original spec but not the certification. The can is thicker walled and has the nut and lock wire provision.

Just a suggestion with no pressure attached. I appreciate the effort in arranging and organizing this testing and look forward to seeing the results!
 
I was one of the ones that spoke up and pledged $100 early on - but by the time I logged in today and saw the thread the money was already raised. If someone wants to throw in another filter I'm still good for $100 contribution towards that. Crowdfunding for a good purpose!
 
I have no objection to adding another filter. The issue is finding agreement on which one. Rather than run up 75 posts here with suggestions, I've started a new thread in the Temporary forum dedicated to "The 5th Filter". Let's leave this thread "clean". After reaching consensus, we'll see about fund raising.
 
I think

I think the K&P S15 is essentially the same as those. So in effect, already being tested. Unless someone can articulate a clear difference between the Challenger and the K&P, this seems redundant.
I chatted with the owner of Challenger well over a year ago (she is the widow of the engineer who founded it), and she insisted that while the filters are made by K&P, she specs a smaller mesh size than the standard K&P’s….but didn’t tell me the difference Numerically.
 
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I chatted withnthe owner of Challenger well over a year ago (she is the widow of the engineer who found3d it), and she insisted that while the filters are made by K&P, she specs a smaller mesh size than the standard K&P’s….but didn’t tell me the difference Numerically.
Interesting word .. “mesh” .. if you examine the S15 you’ll see it’s a perforated filter element, not woven…

Also noteworthy, the popular replaceable version, PC Racing PCS4B (not K&P branded, but it sure looks theirs) is also woven material and different internal construction than the S15.
 
Interesting word .. “mesh” .. if you examine the S15 you’ll see it’s a perforated filter element, not woven…

Also noteworthy, the popular replaceable version, PC Racing PCS4B (not K&P branded, but it sure looks theirs) is also woven material and different internal construction than the S15.
You are correct, is it a perforated element (I have four of them to examine) - I just came up with the word “mesh” when typing quickly on my phone….
 
I’ve been running the challenger filters on all of my aircraft for years, and have had them on oil analysis from Blackstone. This past year I switched them all to Tempest filters so I could get some real life comparison data. I will report the data sometime this year when I’ve had enough oil changes.
vic
 
I chatted with the owner of Challenger well over a year ago (she is the widow of the engineer who founded it), and she insisted that while the filters are made by K&P, she specs a smaller mesh size than the standard K&P’s….but didn’t tell me the difference Numerically.
I'd like to see the Challenger CP48108 filter added to the list and will gladly contribute to the cause.
 
I’ve been running the challenger filters on all of my aircraft for years, and have had them on oil analysis from Blackstone.

Vic, are you sending an S-15 or a Challenger for the lab runs?

I chatted with the owner of Challenger well over a year ago (she is the widow of the engineer who founded it), and she insisted that while the filters are made by K&P, she specs a smaller mesh size than the standard K&P’s….but didn’t tell me the difference Numerically.

I recall. Don't think there was a confirmation. I don't know if the Challenger is a mesh.

I picked the S-15 rather than a Challenger becasue it appears the lower price has put a whole lot more of them on RVs.
 
I was one of the ones that spoke up and pledged $100 early on - but by the time I logged in today and saw the thread the money was already raised. If someone wants to throw in another filter I'm still good for $100 contribution towards that. Crowdfunding for a good purpose!
Drat, me too. While the filters I was interested in are already on the list, if we need further donations to add another I'm in for $100.
 
If you are curious how filters are made, here are two short videos from two different countries:


 
Vic, are you sending an S-15 or a Challenger for the lab runs?



I recall. Don't think there was a confirmation. I don't know if the Challenger is a mesh.

I picked the S-15 rather than a Challenger becasue it appears the lower price has put a whole lot more of them on RVs.
I have one of each if you want them. S15 and Challenger 48109. Will I get them back?
 
Certainly the cases. Elements, probably. The test program runs until the bypass opens or the element collapses.
 
Only six pledges remain outstanding from the first round of fundraising. If you've sent a check, but it has not cleared the bank, it's because I've not deposited it.

Over in the "5th Filter" thread, a significant majority say test the Challenger version of the K&P screen filter, claimed to be 22 micron vs 35. Settled. We'll need $755 to do it. Log your pledge with a message via 'Conversations" link and get a check in the mail. Let's get 'er done!
 
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Only six pledges remain outstanding from the first round of fundraising.

Over in the "5th Filter" thread, a significant majority say test the Challenger version of the K&P screen filter, claimed to be 22 micron vs 35. Settled. We'll need $755 to do it. Log your pledge with a message via 'Conversations" link and get a check in the mail. Let's get 'er done!
Can we make guesses here on the winner of the five that get tested?
 
Ok folks, ALL STOP...we are again fully subscribed after the addition of the Challenger filter. That makes it Champion, Tempest, Wix/NAPA 51515, K&P S-15, and Challenger.

There are a few pledges still outstanding, so if you're reading this and have not sent yours, it's time.

If you have sent your pledge but it has not cleared the bank, that's because I have not yet deposited anyone's check.

Obviously a lot of interest in filter fact. Thank you all for your generosity. Complete donor list when all pledges are in.
 
Ok gang, I'm taking the checks to the bank today, so expect the debit.

If you've sent a contribution and you're not on this list, please let me know ASAP. My records show only four recent pledges not yet arrived, with one being tracked in transit, one my fault for not replying on a timely basis, and two probably deep in the bowels of the USPS. I'll update with those contributors later.

Had a laugh the other day. Couldn't find a check from Jerry Morris which he had written on the 21st of last month. It landed in my mailbox last Friday looking like a length of SCAT tube. Yep, it's confirmed...sometimes the postal machines do spindle, fold, and mutilate.

For now, these good folks are your sponsors....

Barrett Precision Engines - Rhonda Barrett
CamGuard - Eric Anderson
Bill Lane
Mark Van De Bogert
Chris French
Marietta Goodloe
Marriner Smith
Danny Keel
Glenn Martin
Phillip Sprang
Jeff Point
Scott Hersha
Larry New
Luis Orozco
Nancy Burkholder
Mike McKenna
John Bixby
Jeff Radtke
Marvin McGraw
Steve Smith
Mike DeMarino
Caleb Tennis
Jerry Morris
Greg Niehues
Rolf Unternaehrer
Scott Card
David Setser
Greg English
Gary Sobek
Steve Hamer
Peter Baker
Dwight Mattmuller
Warren Moretti
Jim Wampler
Mickey Coggins
Rob Prior
Richard Connell
Kyle Rodrigues
 
Let's tap the brain trust...

Vic Syracuse contributed both a Challenger and an S-15. Both have been flown on his aircraft. My thinking was they are cleanable, reusable filters, so testing them after being used and cleaned by a highly qualified mechanic is reasonable in the context of filtration ability.

However, the lab director has concerns about contamination of his very expensive system. Quote:

The multipass test stand requires clean fluid and no surprises on what contaminants might be on it that could be transferred to the equipment. Flowing “backwards” from the normal flow pattern using a solvent such as isopropyl alcohol or heptane and even periods of sonicating in a solvent bath are recommended by the cleanable metal media filters I’ve seen. The manufacturers should have a recommended process. Once cleaned, I will have to review under a microscope to see if it’s clean enough to test.

So, we need to make a decision...either supply new filter elements, or get real serious about cleaning Vic's elements.

New elements would be the simple approach, at $109 and $150 respectively. We may have donors with new elements on the shelf.

Cleaning isn't crazy, perhaps with an ultrasonic bath (the "sonicating" above), and I don't mind doing it. We would get a good idea about the actual effectiveness of the cleaning method, because the lab would subsequently take a hard look. However, they may not find them acceptable, and we would be back to square one.

Which path forward?
 
Regardless of how well you clean, there will still be the question.
I can get that new S-15 out to you at your command.
 
Yes, replace the screens with new, but what about any potential FOD remaining within the housings? Whether from new housings having debris from manufacturing or used ones with whatever engine-created crud is in the nooks and crannies? Treating the housings with an ultrasonic bath might be a good idea.
 
Ok, the trend is quickly obvious. New it is.

Jon, yes, a new S-15 would be welcome. 162 Dogwood Ridge Dr, Wetumpka, AL 36093

First call....Anyone have a new Challenger element?

I will be able to get the elements returned. They will need cleaning at that point, given they should be holding several grams of ISO12103-1 test material ("A3 Medium") ranging from one to 175 microns.
 
Ok, the trend is quickly obvious. New it is.

Jon, yes, a new S-15 would be welcome. 162 Dogwood Ridge Dr, Wetumpka, AL 36093

First call....Anyone have a new Challenger element?

I will be able to get the elements returned. They will need cleaning at that point, given they should be holding several grams of ISO12103-1 test material ("A3 Medium") ranging from one to 175 microns.
I would think a real world test would involve the norm. The norm for a new cleanable filter would be once. The remainder for the oil changes would be with a cleaned element.
Sorry I am late.
 
I would think a real world test would involve the norm. The norm for a new cleanable filter would be once. The remainder for the oil changes would be with a cleaned element.
Sorry I am late.
Spot on. These are meant to be cleaned and re-used. Using brand new does not give a good sample for how these are meant to be used. Maybe a new unit should be compared to a used, but cleaned unit. Otherwise the testing will not represent actual usage in the field. I have a brand new K&P filter set-up that never had oil in it that I would be happy to loan out for testing as along as I can get it returned after testing.
 
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Ok, the trend is quickly obvious. New it is.

Jon, yes, a new S-15 would be welcome. 162 Dogwood Ridge Dr, Wetumpka, AL 36093

First call....Anyone have a new Challenger element?

I will be able to get the elements returned. They will need cleaning at that point, given they should be holding several grams of ISO12103-1 test material ("A3 Medium") ranging from one to 175 microns.
I am putting a check in the mail to help with any extra expenses. I have used the Tempest until the last two oil changes when I installed the S15. Thanks for doing this testing. I0360 A1A

Neil Clay
Flyyak
KEKY
 
I would think a real world test would involve the norm. The norm for a new cleanable filter would be once. The remainder for the oil changes would be with a cleaned element.
Sorry I am late.
If you clean them well, using an ultrasonic cleaner, they are really like new. At least mine are. I think testing a new filter will not be dramatically different from a properly cleaned one.
 
I have a brand new S15 in a box. But unfortunately the shipping and brokerage at the end of this would probably exceed the value of the filter.
 
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This is one of those cases where there is no absolute answer...which is why I asked for advice. As noted, I think testing a carefully cleaned screen filter represents reality. However, as Paul notes, we may end up with folks who forever claim we didn't clean it right, so it blocked much sooner, or (flip side) filtered better becasue the holes were smaller due to buildup, or (insert favorite argument here).

Neil, thanks. Might need to buy a Challenger element. David, thank you also. Let's give Jon a chance to respond.
 
We're comparing new with new, I'm on the side of a new filter.

If enough people want to, then clean/sonicate the new filter(s) and repeat the test - it might give valuable data for new versus cleaned, but of course at a price.
 
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