My 10 general questions

[RNB]

Hello.

I'd previously sat in a 10 but found it cramped. Toured the factory, sat in a 14, surprised how good it felt. Set up a test ride with Zach (OMG it was fun) and am now convinced the 10 is really the right way to go. As I was obsessing just over the 14, am now playing catch-up on the 10. I have a few questions.

IO540 engine: I see some rebuilt and perhaps new for sale online, prices seem higher.I've also heard good things about some engine builders like Barrett. I'd like to hear more about the pros and cons of each option. I will continue reading, but links welcome. Any other engine suppliers and builders to follow?

Monitoring: Zach's test plane had PFD monitoring of flap position and door latches. I forget what manufacturer the panel was from but have never seen these things in a G3X certified. Are there build consideration with avionics to have these things displayed? Is it possible with Garmin G3x?

I saw a video with a window cut out, vent hole kind of thing. Where can I learn more about this? Seems like poor mans HVAC.

As a big guy, am I safe to assume that niceties such interior panels and ceiling vents will cut back on my space?

I've flown well in my C172 without HVAC, is it safe to assume I will be okay without in a 10? Most of the time I shut the doors pre taxi.

At what points along the build are critical decisions made?

For the panel and between seats, what things will maximize my knee and leg room? Can I move anything to create more room?

My legs limited flight control movement at the last 10% or so of the ailerons, but this was not an issue in flight that demonstrated steep turns.

My big picture plan: stick with AP school start in August. Order flight control kit and some tools. Build and rebuild kits (I have the other two) and progress in school until I think I can handle proper riveting. Clean up a shed for shop space, concrete floors, finish walls, electrify, insulate (spray?), drywall vs other, paint, then get the first kit as all of that comes together. Develop a build flow logarithm.

Consider buying a modern Garmin panel equipped 10 if available. Why? Save time and frustration and as an AP I can still do the condition inspection. Why Garmin? For safety and familiarity as my 172 has G3x, SP, 750xi.

I can find a handful of 10 owners within a couple miles of me. As a build plan progresses, reach out to them to build rapport and seek guidance.

 

[n981ms]

Hello.

I'd previously sat in a 10 but found it cramped. Toured the factory, sat in a 14, surprised how good it felt. Set up a test ride with Zach (OMG it was fun) and am now convinced the 10 is really the right way to go. As I was obsessing just over the 14, am now playing catch-up on the 10. I have a few questions.

IO540 engine: I see some rebuilt and perhaps new for sale online, prices seem higher.I've also heard good things about some engine builders like Barrett. I'd like to hear more about the pros and cons of each option. I will continue reading, but links welcome. Any other engine suppliers and builders to follow?

Monitoring: Zach's test plane had PFD monitoring of flap position and door latches. I forget what manufacturer the panel was from but have never seen these things in a G3X certified. Are there build consideration with avionics to have these things displayed? Is it possible with Garmin G3x?

I saw a video with a window cut out, vent hole kind of thing. Where can I learn more about this? Seems like poor mans HVAC.

As a big guy, am I safe to assume that niceties such interior panels and ceiling vents will cut back on my space?

I've flown well in my C172 without HVAC, is it safe to assume I will be okay without in a 10? Most of the time I shut the doors pre taxi.

At what points along the build are critical decisions made?

For the panel and between seats, what things will maximize my knee and leg room? Can I move anything to create more room?

My legs limited flight control movement at the last 10% or so of the ailerons, but this was not an issue in flight that demonstrated steep turns.

My big picture plan: stick with AP school start in August. Order flight control kit and some tools. Build and rebuild kits (I have the other two) and progress in school until I think I can handle proper riveting. Clean up a shed for shop space, concrete floors, finish walls, electrify, insulate (spray?), drywall vs other, paint, then get the first kit as all of that comes together. Develop a build flow logarithm.

Consider buying a modern Garmin panel equipped 10 if available. Why? Save time and frustration and as an AP I can still do the condition inspection. Why Garmin? For safety and familiarity as my 172 has G3x, SP, 750xi.

I can find a handful of 10 owners within a couple miles of me. As a build plan progresses, reach out to them to build rapport and seek guidance.

I am an RV 10 owner. I am not an RV-10 builder. I have built a Kitfox and a Zenith 750 group build).
1. If you fit in a 172, you should not have any problem fitting in an RV 10.
2. I have a Lycoming clone. The company that built it has changed ownership. I kind of wish I had a genuine Lycoming IO-540. I would have the benefit of newly discovered problem notification in the form of ADs and SBs.
3. I do not know about the: G3 X. I am very happy with my Advanced Flight Systems and it does display as you mentioned.
4. The stock vents work fine in south Georgia. No cut outs in the window for me.
5. Panels as you mention do not seem to take up appreciable space.
6. Some want the AC. I do not want the extra weight. I do not need it at altitude for sure.
7. Not a builder.
8. Stock RV-10 has pretty good room even for big guys. Adding a center console will cut into that room.
9. Plenty of room in the RV-10
10. If you want to be an A and P do it, but you do not need A and P school to build an RV or any "amateur built" kit.
11. Buy one for sure they are awesome.

 

[Raiz]

Here's a few suggestions on some of your questions. Great choice and good luck!

Monitoring: Zach's test plane had PFD monitoring of flap position and door latches. I forget what manufacturer the panel was from but have never seen these things in a G3X certified. Are there build consideration with avionics to have these things displayed? Is it possible with Garmin G3x?

Yes, you can do this with a G3X

As a big guy, am I safe to assume that niceties such interior panels and ceiling vents will cut back on my space?

Ceiling vents not really so much, as they'll be in a console that runs along the centre of the aircraft, kind of above and to the side of where your head will be (unless you are very tall). Interior panels don't really cut into your space in any way that matters, but a center console reduces your ability to move your leg out of the way of the stick.

I've flown well in my C172 without HVAC, is it safe to assume I will be okay without in a 10? Most of the time I shut the doors pre taxi.

Depends where you live/fly. I'd say the windows on the -10 are bigger than on a 172 and not shaded by the high wing. Best to ask -10 owners based near you.

At what points along the build are critical decisions made?

Few decisions at empennage stage - rudder trim, VOR antenna, a/c and overhead vents (but they can still be fitted later). Few at wing stage - lights, autopilot servo, AoA (but all can be done later). Lots of things at Fuselage stage.

For the panel and between seats, what things will maximize my knee and leg room? Can I move anything to create more room?

Not much you can change to make more room. You can avoid taking away space if you stick to the stock Vans panel and don't fit a center console.

 

[RNB]

If buying, who are reliable prebuy inspectors? Folks that found stuff and made deals go south.
I know Vic. How about Nick?
Who else?

 

[Auburntsts]

Engines—generally a rebuilt is less expensive than new. Probably gonna be a considerable lead time on a new motor. There are no inexpensive options anymore. I have a Barrett zero-timed rebuild in my 10 and you can’t go wrong with them IMO.

G3X—it can be configured with the appropriate sensors to display just about anything.

Outsourcing the panel—budget between $40K to $60K for it depending on what you go with.

Windows—don’t add a vent. I have an overhead console with vents but it’s marginal on the ground as I only installed 1 NACA scoop to feed it. Instead add a strap to the door that you can secure so it only open up 6-inches or so.

The only interior option that you can do is make sure the rudder pedals are installed in the forward position. Interior panels and whatnot will not effect much as far as issuable space.

Really there are no critical decision points. However there things that if done at point A are easier than point B. For example if installing components in the tailcone it’s generally easier to do so before attaching the tailcone to the fuse.

 

[D-Dubya]

I'll throw in my two cents on your Big Picture Plan...

If your goal is to become an A&P, have at it. If you're just doing it to learn how to build an RV, it isn't necessary. There are plenty of good weekend schools conducted by EAA and others that will give you the skills, knowledge and confidence to get started.

There are many who have built RV's in less than ideal work spaces. But the more comfortable and better equipped your work space is, the more inclined you'll be to go work on the plane. If the shop has to heat up for an hour before you can work on the plane, you may miss out on some of those short work sessions (e.g., after work, before supper, in between kids' activities). It doesn't need to be a showplace, but good lighting is high on my list. Insulating and drywall help the HVAC system and also cut down on the noise that neighbors may hear. Having reel type air hoses and electrical cords is nice, but you can add those as you go. And look at building some of those EAA workbenches. Whoever designed those and put the plans out there for all of us to use deserves an award. I still use mine, and it's been almost 25 years since I built them.

If you do a search here, you'll find lots of advice on setting up your shop space. Just get started and see what works for you as your project progresses.

 

[BobTurner]

Okay, my random thoughts:
Build because you want to build, not to save money (despite the current high prices being ssked for used RV10s) Building takes a lot of time, you want it to be enjoyable. Many who don’t enjoy building never finish.
Virtually all EFIS units have the capability to display flap and door positions. The door open hardware now cones with the kit, for flaps buy an inexpensive sensor. Garmin makes some good hardware, but so do Dynon and GRT. This is a very personal decision. (Disclosure: I have GRT, would do it again). Garmin is expensive. AC will turn your 4 seat plane into a three seat plane. The -10 climbs very well, to cooler air. You may want to think about extended range tanks. All depends on whether you want to run best power, or dial back a bit to LOP.

 

[Pdp7427]

Okay, my random thoughts:
Build because you want to build, not to save money (despite the current high prices being ssked for used RV10s) Building takes a lot of time, you want it to be enjoyable. Many who don’t enjoy building never finish.
Virtually all EFIS units have the capability to display flap and door positions. The door open hardware now cones with the kit, for flaps buy an inexpensive sensor. Garmin makes some good hardware, but so do Dynon and GRT. This is a very personal decision. (Disclosure: I have GRT, would do it again). Garmin is expensive. AC will turn your 4 seat plane into a three seat plane. The -10 climbs very well, to cooler air. You may want to think about extended range tanks. All depends on whether you want to run best power, or dial back a bit to LOP.

Current flap motor has position wires built in.

 

[howardtlcc]

Skip the A/P school and do the two week tail build at Synergy. Engage with your local EAA chapter to find folks who will help when you are stuck and not sure how to do something.

The time you spend in A/P school could be spent building. I bet most builders can rivet way better than the average A/P.

 

[charlesmc]

I'm currently building a 10. I have spent basically 5-7 hours almost every Saturday and Sunday for the last two years building in an unheated/uncooled hangar and we are just about to get to the fiberglass work on the fuselage. And that is with an equally dedicated partner which means that we are essentially halving the work that each of us needs to do (or doubling the build rate). We still have fiberglass, avionics, and FWF to go - probably another 1.5 to 2 years on the build.

I'm simultaneously enjoying building the plane and at the same time very ready for the plane to be done so I can have some free time back.

We started by building the tail and tail cone at Synergy Air South. This is a GREAT way to jump start your build, pick up really important skills and techniques, and to really understand what you are getting into. You don't need to go to A&P school to learn how to rivet. You're going to install hundreds of rivets in the tail and tail cone during the two weeks with Synergy using manual or pneumatic squeezers (as much as possible) and using a rivet gun (only when you need to because this can be a more variable process).

We also had a really good technical advisor that was usually working on the weekends in a nearby hangar that we could ask for advice.

It is a long and complex process. Everyone says it's worth it, but just understand what you are getting into. The RV-10 is the most complex plane in the Van's fleet from a construction standpoint.