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Long Term Storage of Hartzel Prop and Consequences
- Thread starter mfleming
- Start date
Maybe the answer is if you by an engine and prop to wait and ship them together. Maybe for some reason this would help to speed up engine production and I still don't understand giving a deposit years in advance for something that they can still raise the price on at their discretion.
Good point.
Mayo has an expiration date and you have a feel for how much your family consumes, easy peasy. Hartzell props don't have an expiration date listed on the order form and most don't know when it will be consumed. I would bet that the vast majority have no clue when they are offered the discounted prop pricing that if it's stored for a period, there may be an issue. Only way I found out is on this forum.
How about Hartzell / Vans putting the notice in red on the order form "IF YOU WILL NOT USE THIS PROPELLER IN 1-x?? YEARS, YOU MAY NEED TO SPEND $2000 TO HAVE IT RESEALED"
I do understand how much mayonnaise I will consume and the gallon of Mayo goes pretty quick!
Mayo has an expiration date and you have a feel for how much your family consumes, easy peasy. Hartzell props don't have an expiration date listed on the order form and most don't know when it will be consumed. I would bet that the vast majority have no clue when they are offered the discounted prop pricing that if it's stored for a period, there may be an issue. Only way I found out is on this forum.
How about Hartzell / Vans putting the notice in red on the order form "IF YOU WILL NOT USE THIS PROPELLER IN 1-x?? YEARS, YOU MAY NEED TO SPEND $2000 TO HAVE IT RESEALED"
I do understand how much mayonnaise I will consume and the gallon of Mayo goes pretty quick!
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Unfortunately, I think a lot of folks don’t understand what it is to be the manufacturer of the aircraft that is under construction.
The ease of building which Vans has added into their kits has perhaps created “assemblers” and as a result has inadvertently attracted clients that are not mentally prepared to be a manufacturer and all the responsibility that comes with it.
Part of that responsibility is understanding the 3rd party major components. The operation, storage, parts, manuals and bulletins are all available. It is something that a manufacturer should have knowledge. Assemblers are not as sophisticated and as such are ignorant to the requirements.
Sorry if it sounds harsh.
The ease of building which Vans has added into their kits has perhaps created “assemblers” and as a result has inadvertently attracted clients that are not mentally prepared to be a manufacturer and all the responsibility that comes with it.
Part of that responsibility is understanding the 3rd party major components. The operation, storage, parts, manuals and bulletins are all available. It is something that a manufacturer should have knowledge. Assemblers are not as sophisticated and as such are ignorant to the requirements.
Sorry if it sounds harsh.
I was about to pull the trigger on an engine/prop combo to get the $1,000 discount when I stumbled across this thread. Will storing the prop in a climate controlled facility prevent the issues being experience? Would like to take advantage of the discount...but certainly not worth it if I'm going to have it resealed!
Storing in climate controlled environment will not prevent the repacking issue. Vans and Harzell really need to step up and put this info in the ordering forms/information.
It's costing me about $2000 currently so I lost $1000 by taking the Vans "deal".
Glad you found this thread.
It's costing me about $2000 currently so I lost $1000 by taking the Vans "deal".
Glad you found this thread.
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My prop is coming back today after reseal/repack. $1500. Prop was bought in 2016 and never installed. Lesson learned too late - don’t buy a prop until well into the build cycle. I am almost ready to,fly, so I will get some use out of it this time.
Just curious, did they see anything in the prop that gave them concern? What kind of grease was it?
Or at least give guidance of what accelerates grease separation and seals drying out. Seems the grease separation is the larger of the 2 issues. Does the "environmental packaging" help the grease separation? Again, data would be helpful.
I’m thinking the primary issue is the grease separating. If you have a prop in storage why not periodically, say once a year, pump a tube of the NYCO GN3058 grease through it?
The OP said his prop started slinging grease after 100 hours. Again it makes sense to pump more NYCO GN3058 through it before it starts slinging the grease.
Cycling the grease out to mitigate a potential problem seems more logical than mailing off a a perfectly good prop for ‘recreational maintenance’.
The OP said his prop started slinging grease after 100 hours. Again it makes sense to pump more NYCO GN3058 through it before it starts slinging the grease.
Cycling the grease out to mitigate a potential problem seems more logical than mailing off a a perfectly good prop for ‘recreational maintenance’.
Review all the posts on this and you'll see that the type of grease - NYCO, Aeroshell 5 or 6 doesn't matter - builders with all three have the same issue. The environment also doesn't seem to make a difference. Harzell's engineer is on VAF confirming all of this. Questions on "environmental packaging", packaging dry, Storing up, down, horizontal, vertical, rotating, air conditioning, etc. have all been discussed with dead ends.
Sure with Vans and Hartzell would disclose this on the ordering forms.
Sure with Vans and Hartzell would disclose this on the ordering forms.
Because many owners, prop shops and even Hartzell engineers have explained countless times that there is no way to completely change, purge or refresh the grease in these props without disassembling them.
The thing is - the hub Is not “full” of grease, so pumping a boat-load of grease into it to flush the old stuff out is not a solution, it just creates other problems.
As the OP and having gone through the whole process….buying the prop 2 years before flight, storing it in, at times, very warm garage and suffering the consequences… my advice is to NOT buy the prop until needed. BUT, if you do have the prop for an extended amount of time, keeping it cool may be worth the effort.I guess if you just put the prop in your walk-in freezer the grease will stay put until you are ready to fly. You do have a walk-in freezer in your house, right?
Hartzell will double the warranty time (from 2 to 4 yrs.) if the prop is packaged (Packaging requirements are pretty simple and could be fairly easily duplicated at home) and stored in "preferred conditions", attached which also seem very easy to do. It appears the recommendation for temperature fluctuations is incorrect as +/- 50 F is not +/- 10 C should be avoided. I think the +/- 10 C (+/- 18 F) is probably what they want. Note Hartzell most likely will not give the 4 years if you do your own packaging but getting data to understand how they can double the time would be meaningful. BTW, I have repackaged my prop adding desiccant bags and shrink wrap storing it in a climate-controlled environment, can't hurt. When the time comes to use it, I will install and see if it spits grease. If it does will pick a time that I am not using the prop and get it resealed. Prop shops around here can do it in a matter of days.
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If you have a pre 2020 hub. You can:
A: Do nothing
B: Do something like try to purge it out
C: Spend a bunch of money
the OP flew it for 100 hours before it started leaking.
Post#8 had the nyco grease separating and post #23 had a leak that “spit grease for 15 hrs. Then slowed spitting and stopped”
If you don’t have money to burn. You don’t need to be anywhere near an aircraft. Light ‘em if you got 'em.
Nope. It was just the DAR requiring it before he would do the visit. The net effect is positive - apparently, the prop shop did some kind of hub mod. I’ll find out what that was when I pick it up today. The prop shop did tell me that the grease used 11 years ago solidifies with time.
Called Hartzell today. Asked about 4 year long term box and what the extra cost would be. The lady that I spoke with put me on hold and checked around to answer my question. "It is not something we offer, and after two years it would need to serviced anyway" I did query why the long term storage was mentioned in the service instructions. She did not have an answer.
My prop has been sitting in my climate controlled shop (15c, 59f) for 3yrs. Stored orientated as recommended by Hartzell. Here’s my question, What is the worst that can happen if I decide to forego the reseal and associated costs and fly it later this year? Likely closer to 4 yrs before in service. I just mounted it yesterday with the bolts only snugged up, so I can carry on with my spinner etc.
Side note, you’ll need a wrench something like this, when you go to torque the bolts (60-70 ft/lbs) on a C2YR-1BFP 74” prop. Standard for the RV14A with io390. I tried my crows foot but it didn’t fully engage the nut. YMMV
I’m not sure I’m qualified to say what the worst that can happen. Hartzel told me that after sitting too long, two things can happen: the seals can take a set, the grease can separate. Both lead to leaking. As stated in my OP, it was just less than 100 hours before mine started leaking. Mine started as a small streak of grease and slowly got worse.
In the past, I have used Sensenich Propeller Services (they service many brands of props) in Gainesville, GA.Well
I ordered my prop in early 2020 thinking I'd be flying shortly (hah!). Probably got another year to go. It's been in a climate-controlled shop in the shipping box since then.
Anyone have recommendations for a prop shop around Atlanta, Savannah, Charleston, Jacksonville area...? If it's true the grease separates like that, I guess I'll ship in in after I get the spinner fitted. Or should I wait till it comes back to do that?
I'm aiming to move to the airport this fall.
My WW 378HRT sat in the box for a year then almost 4 years on the engine, never rotated, ambient temps, and close to water, what could go wrong ? Almost 30 hrs and seems grease free. I don’t think there is a worst case scenario other than the hassle of removing it and sending it back which you would need to do anyway for a reseal but loose it for a week or two. I have a spare prop I have cellophane wrapped and placed desiccants bags inside to make me feel better.
Thanks Michael. I’m waiting on a quote from the prop shop. Decisions decisions…
One thing that really caught my attention, while installing my prop, is there is just one o ring that seals the prop/ hub to the crank and oil from governor. No redundancy there. I gave it a good check over and lubed it well before install.
To help me evaluate the risk of doing nothing, has anybody been successful using a new prop that’s been sitting for a while? The prop for my RV-10 was delivered in mid-2022 and has been in a dry shop between 60-85 degrees. Unless there’s a high chance it will have problems, I’d just as soon try it. It would be inconvenient to have to send it out unplanned but it doesn’t sound like that’s a showstopper unless I’m missing something. I think I’m abt 6 months away from being done.
-Bob
-Bob
Bought my Hartzell in Dec2011. Stored in my garage until first flite May 2017. So 5 1/2 years untouched. Greased it by forcing out the old grease every CI. Had it overhauled at the 6 year mark with 900 hours on it per their recommendation. Now at 1250 hours. Wouldn’t do it any other way.
Did the prop shop talk to you about how much grease was in the hub? My understanding is that putting that much grease in the prop is not recommended.
