Cutting and Buffing Comparo

[rockitdoc]

I started cutting and buffing my paint this week and hadn't really settled on the process to use even after reading some of the excellent posts on here.

So, I did an experiment today. I wanted to compare two rubbing compounds
1) 3M Perfect-It 36060 and
2) Meguiar's 100

The photo below shows the result after first wet sanding with 1500 Trizact then 3000 Trizact



It's hard to see in the photo, but with just one pass of the buffer, the Meguiar's is slightly clearer. It feels significantly grittier than the 3M, also. Makes sense it would cut faster. So, Meguiar's gets the prize. The 3M would get to the same result, but it would take more passes, and time.

Then, I decided to see if cutting with 5000 Trizact made much difference over just 3000 Trizact. The photo below shows the result.



The 5000 Trizact makes a big difference. That reflection is my new LED work light from Home Depot. Worth every penny! All the scratches and defects are really obvious with this light. I will use them for the rest of my painting as all my mistakes regarding orange peel and runs came from inadequate light.

So, I have decided my process for finishing my paint will be:

1) First cut with 1500 Trizact wet
2) Second and third cuts with 3000 and 5000 Trizact wet
3) Meguiar's 100
4) Meguiar's 210
5) Meguiar's 310
6) Gtechniq Crystal Light
7) Gtechniq EXO

 

[BH1166]

If it makes ya happy go for it. Looks like a lot of effort

 

[rockitdoc]

If it makes ya happy go for it. Looks like a lot of effort

That it is. But, man, this is my hand made, custom, one off hot rod that goes 200mph! It’s gonna look the part. Besides, it’s really satisfying to get the mirror finish so my sweetie won’t need a compact mirror. Also, as slippery as this beast will be , I figure at least a 2kt TAS increase.

 

[wirejock]

Polish

That it is. But, man, this is my hand made, custom, one off hot rod that goes 200mph! It’s gonna look the part. Besides, it’s really satisfying to get the mirror finish so my sweetie won’t need a compact mirror. Also, as slippery as this beast will be , I figure at least a 2kt TAS increase.

I like Meguires products too.
Sweetie? Did I miss something, someone?

 

[rockitdoc]

I like Meguires products too.
Sweetie? Did I miss something, someone?

Wishful thinking. There has to be hope, right?

 

[BillL]

After the wet sand (I like the 5000 trizac) the compound (cutting) is just one step, it has to be followed with a finer polish. The compound is not made to yield a final high class finish. See the 3M videos on YT.

Full disclosure: I have been doing this for decades using perfect-It 3 stages but 3M has likely advanced - I have not.

 

[rockitdoc]

After the wet sand (I like the 5000 trizac) the compound (cutting) is just one step, it has to be followed with a finer polish. The compound is not made to yield a final high class finish. See the 3M videos on YT.

Full disclosure: I have been doing this for decades using perfect-It 3 stages but 3M has likely advanced - I have not.

I did, too. Until my comparo today. I’m now a Meguiar convert.

 

[DanH]

Scott, what Bill was talking about is a final step sometimes called a swirl remover...because if not used, paint can look pretty bad under the lights at night. Dark colors will show them in full daylight.

 

[PCHunt]

You guys don't wanna know how my plane was painted............

 

[Gnvflyer]

Work light for painting

"That reflection is my new LED work light from Home Depot. Worth every penny! All the scratches and defects are really obvious with this light. I will use them for the rest of my painting as all my mistakes regarding orange peel and runs came from inadequate light."


Which light are you using?

 

[Kyle Boatright]

"That reflection is my new LED work light from Home Depot. Worth every penny! All the scratches and defects are really obvious with this light.

This light sounds like a nightmare. Why in the world would anyone want that. ;-)

 

[PaulvS]

You guys don't wanna know how my plane was painted............

Well, some paint theirs with a credit card, but I'm guessing maybe not...

 

[DanH]

Any 'ole lighting will do, as long as you can move around to see the reflection. This is ordinary 8 ft tube lighting. Light orange peel, no orange peel.
.

 

[rockitdoc]

"That reflection is my new LED work light from Home Depot. Worth every penny! All the scratches and defects are really obvious with this light. I will use them for the rest of my painting as all my mistakes regarding orange peel and runs came from inadequate light."


Which light are you using?

HD is selling them right now. 6’ pole, four adjustable lights. $69.

 

[Kyle Boatright]

HD is selling them right now. 6’ pole, four adjustable lights. $69.

Link? Couldn't find it.

 

[rockitdoc]

This light sounds like a nightmare. Why in the world would anyone want that. ;-)

If you want ‘show plane’ paint, florescents are best for seeing the P1500 and P3000 scratches. The LEDs give extra reflections in case needed. If you get everything cut and buffed so scratches don’t show under these conditions, when out in the sun, the paint looks like liquid. Perfect.

My attitude is if I’m going to spend 3000+ hrs building a plane worth north of $150Gs, spending 250 hrs to get it looking as good as possible is worth it IMHO. It’s also REALLY slippery. A very good thing. Bugs just wipe off, or don’t stick at all.

 

[rockitdoc]

Link? Couldn't find it.

Couldn't find it online. Here they are:

 

[lr172]

I started cutting and buffing my paint this week and hadn't really settled on the process to use even after reading some of the excellent posts on here.

So, I did an experiment today. I wanted to compare two rubbing compounds
1) 3M Perfect-It 36060 and
2) Meguiar's 100

The photo below shows the result after first wet sanding with 1500 Trizact then 3000 Trizact

View attachment 50954

It's hard to see in the photo, but with just one pass of the buffer, the Meguiar's is slightly clearer. It feels significantly grittier than the 3M, also. Makes sense it would cut faster. So, Meguiar's gets the prize. The 3M would get to the same result, but it would take more passes, and time.

Then, I decided to see if cutting with 5000 Trizact made much difference over just 3000 Trizact. The photo below shows the result.

View attachment 50953

The 5000 Trizact makes a big difference. That reflection is my new LED work light from Home Depot. Worth every penny! All the scratches and defects are really obvious with this light. I will use them for the rest of my painting as all my mistakes regarding orange peel and runs came from inadequate light.

So, I have decided my process for finishing my paint will be:

1) First cut with 1500 Trizact wet
2) Second and third cuts with 3000 and 5000 Trizact wet
3) Meguiar's 100
4) Meguiar's 210
5) Meguiar's 310
6) Gtechniq Crystal Light
7) Gtechniq EXO

That is an unfair comparison for the 3M product. It is part of a 3 part system and not designed to provide a prefect reflection. That requires the next two finer levels of compound. The 3M is designed to deal with 1200 grit sanding scratches and other flaws, not a one step tool for perfect gloss. It leaves a visible haze on the finish. This fully goes away with the next level compound. It is designed for shops that cannot afford to wet sand up through the finer grits. some other products include fillers or silicone to hide defects and provide what appears to be a better gloss, but it doesn't last. Never used meguiars, only 3M, so cant comment. I have done some cars with the 3M perfect it system and could clearly read a watch in the reflection.

 

[rockitdoc]

That is an unfair comparison for the 3M product. It is part of a 3 part system and not designed to provide a prefect reflection. That requires the next two finer levels of compound. The 3M is designed to deal with 1200 grit sanding scratches and other flaws, not a one step tool for perfect gloss. It leaves a visible haze on the finish. This fully goes away with the next level compound. It is designed for shops that cannot afford to wet sand up through the finer grits. some other products include fillers or silicone to hide defects and provide what appears to be a better gloss, but it doesn't last. Never used meguiars, only 3M, so cant comment. I have done some cars with the 3M perfect it system and could clearly read a watch in the reflection.

My intent was to just compare the rubbing compounds, not the entire system. The idea being to see how fast just the first step cut the P1500 and P3000 scratches. The thesis being if the first step cut the scratches faster, time would be saved. I think the test was fair in this regard. Not saying there is anything wrong with the 3M system; as I said, I have used the Perfect-It three part system for 30 years on cars and motorcycles. But, if removing P3000 scratches with one pass is the goal, Meguiar's won the contest yesterday. Meguiar's is also a three step process with M100 (or 105), 205 and 305. But, only one pass with each product was needed to get a mirror. This saved me a bunch of time after the P1500 and P3000 wet Trizact. FWIW, if I had an inventory of 3M Perfect-It compounds, I wouldn't change to Meguiar's. The difference isn't worth throwing good compounds away.

 

[rockitdoc]

OK. You got me thinking. I know. Dangerous.
But, lr172 has a point. The two products (3M and Meguiar's) are systems. This might mean that Meguiar's is faster on the first cut with the compound, but not faster overall, since 3M might catch up, speed wise, on the second and third cuts.

So, I did the experiment again. This time using all three parts of each system.

The results were a tie. Dead heat. Here's what I did:

1) Both are compared on the same panel with the same orange peel and boogers in the paint. This was before I had set up my gun correctly for the SW AcryGlo (duh). And, I shot the HS outside where lots of **** got in. So, this little experiment also shows how no matter how crappy a painter, the job can be salvaged.

Here's the before:



2) I wet sanded each panel by hand (this is really important; to discuss later) with P1500 using a square pattern; also really important.
3) I sanded each with wet Trizact 3000 next to get rid of the 1500 scratches. The square pattern is important so you can tell if the 3000 has eliminate all of the 1500 scratches. If you use circular motion on the 1500, it's difficult to tell if the 3000 has done its job.
4) I sanded with wet Trizact 5000 to rid the surface of the 3000 scratches.
I am using a 3M orbital dual action air driven buffer/polisher set on the slowest setting.

Here's the 3M panel after all three of the products below were used. I am using a Porter Cable rotary polisher set on 2.5 speed. It has a slow start feature which I really like. I have the 3M quick release hub installed which makes switching pads quick and easy. I use the 3M 8" foam pads (white for compound, black for polish and blue for ultra polish). Milwaukee, Dewalt and Makita also make good polishers. One pass of the polisher for each product.





Here is the Meguiar's panel and the products used:






The difference can't be seen in person any better than the photos show. So, pick your poison. Cost of a quart of each of the 3M products is $50-ish. Meguiar's $25-ish. So.......?

I mentioned that the P1500 was applied by hand, wet. Yesterday, I did the starboard side of the HS with a Trizact P1500 pad wet on my DA. A mistake. Tiny 1500 swirls were caused by the DA application. Maybe it's not supposed to be used wet. Not sure why this would matter and if used dry, the result might be worse. Anyway, it's really tough to determine if the P3000 has been effective at ridding the surface of the 1500 scratches. So, from not on, I'm using P1500 wet by hand in a rectangular pattern to cut the peel and boogers. Then, DA 3000 and 5000, then compounding.

I hope this helps.

 

[lr172]

OK. You got me thinking. I know. Dangerous.
But, lr172 has a point. The two products (3M and Meguiar's) are systems. This might mean that Meguiar's is faster on the first cut with the compound, but not faster overall, since 3M might catch up, speed wise, on the second and third cuts.

So, I did the experiment again. This time using all three parts of each system.

The results were a tie. Dead heat. Here's what I did:

1) Both are compared on the same panel with the same orange peel and boogers in the paint. This was before I had set up my gun correctly for the SW AcryGlo (duh). And, I shot the HS outside where lots of **** got in. So, this little experiment also shows how no matter how crappy a painter, the job can be salvaged.

Here's the before:

View attachment 50980

2) I wet sanded each panel by hand (this is really important; to discuss later) with P1500 using a square pattern; also really important.
3) I sanded each with wet Trizact 3000 next to get rid of the 1500 scratches. The square pattern is important so you can tell if the 3000 has eliminate all of the 1500 scratches. If you use circular motion on the 1500, it's difficult to tell if the 3000 has done its job.
4) I sanded with wet Trizact 5000 to rid the surface of the 3000 scratches.
I am using a 3M orbital dual action air driven buffer/polisher set on the slowest setting.

Here's the 3M panel after all three of the products below were used. I am using a Porter Cable rotary polisher set on 2.5 speed. It has a slow start feature which I really like. I have the 3M quick release hub installed which makes switching pads quick and easy. I use the 3M 8" foam pads (white for compound, black for polish and blue for ultra polish). Milwaukee, Dewalt and Makita also make good polishers. One pass of the polisher for each product.

View attachment 50979

View attachment 50981

Here is the Meguiar's panel and the products used:

View attachment 50982

View attachment 50983


The difference can't be seen in person any better than the photos show. So, pick your poison. Cost of a quart of each of the 3M products is $50-ish. Meguiar's $25-ish. So.......?

I mentioned that the P1500 was applied by hand, wet. Yesterday, I did the starboard side of the HS with a Trizact P1500 pad wet on my DA. A mistake. Tiny 1500 swirls were caused by the DA application. Maybe it's not supposed to be used wet. Not sure why this would matter and if used dry, the result might be worse. Anyway, it's really tough to determine if the P3000 has been effective at ridding the surface of the 1500 scratches. So, from not on, I'm using P1500 wet by hand in a rectangular pattern to cut the peel and boogers. Then, DA 3000 and 5000, then compounding.

I hope this helps.

That is more in line with what I would have expected. I have been using 1200 by hand and then trizact 1500 on the DA or by hand where it doesn't work well or a small area and get good results. I say good, because I am not looking for ANYTHING near the level of perfection that you are. In direct sunlight, it looks nice with no visible swirl marks and creates a very nice 5 foot paint job. I am sure that if I threw thousands of lumens of LED light at it, I would see what you do. Good to learn that 3000 grit is a worthwhile step when going for show quality.

lets remember that the 3m product is mostly engineered for production shops that simply do not go beyond 1200 or 1500 grit. I suspect that if you stopped at 1200 or 1500, the 3M would be just as fast on the first cut as the maguire. I do have to usually make two passes with the 3m on the first cut, but guessing the other one may also require that if not going to 5000 grit.