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Converting automotive stater to lycoming mounting pad

S

semiller1184

Member
Has anyone ever converted a automotive starter to a lycoming mounting pad? it looks like a early 2000's truck starter would fit, but it is clocked wrong. Curious what others have done.
 
I installed a Chevy Summit Racing geared starter on my IO360 with nothing more than a flat plate bolted to the Lycoming case.
 
I'm all for experimentation, figuring out ways to do things better, less costly, etc. but this is a bit beyond the pale for me.

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should... (popcorn)

mad-max-fury-road-27-main.jpg
 
bjdecker said:
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should
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I guess it depends if you think that there is a fundamental difference between an individual sourcing a geared Japanese automotive starter and building an adapter plate for their Lycoming, or paying someone like B&C to source a geared Japanese automotive starter and building an adapter plate for a Lycoming.

I don’t see a difference.
 
In 1998 before the first flight of my homebuilt, I needed to replace the enormously heavy Prestolite starter than came with the used Lycoming engine I was using.

I saw someone advertising a cast aluminum mount that allowed the use of a ND starter off of a Toyota on a Lycoming.

I pulled this $25 used ND starter from a wrecked Toyota at the salvage yard, and it has been reliably starting my engine for 26 years.

ND Toyota Starter.png
 
Anyone else have any info on where to get the bracket or plate design to use an auto starter....
 
Jjackh10 said:
If you can fit a 70's muscle car with all-terrain's and stacked superchargers on a big block you absolutely should!
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And have an early Mel Gibson drive it around in a post-apocalyptic, dystopian, backwater in Australia...by all means...

[rant: on]

Or do it to an RV and then complain in a public forum about how many times it failed on takeoff, in IMC, on a hot day, on a cold day, how it makes a weird noise, it burns 20GPH, it burns 5GPH, the fuel/oil/manifold pressures are too high, or it feels too slow...

Oh, wait, then tell stories about how you made these modifications to your RV-9 and how you regularly cruise at 250knots IAS at 17Kft burning 3gph...

[rant: off]
 
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gasman said:
Anyone else have any info on where to get the bracket or plate design to use an auto starter....
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I apologize for my bit of thread drift. I don't know where to purchase a plate. But looking at the picture in Longeze's post it doesn't look to hard to fabricate. Some 1/4" plate, a drill press, a hole saw, and some very careful measuring, should net you one in an afternoon.
 
bjdecker said:
I'm all for experimentation, figuring out ways to do things better, less costly, etc. but this is a bit beyond the pale for me.

Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should... (popcorn)

View attachment 63528
Click to expand...
A starter is not required for safe flight. An auto starter does not have the impact on safely completing your mission as an auto alternator has. Auto starters go through way more cycles than your Lycoming starter and would be readily available in almost any town in the country IF there was a failure. And pay less than $200 to get on your way.

For the non-experimenters on this site, AC Spruce can have you a new starter delivered next day AM for $1778.18
 
gasman said:
A starter is not required for safe flight. An auto starter does not have the impact on safely completing your mission as an auto alternator has. Auto starters go through way more cycles than your Lycoming starter and would be readily available in almost any town in the country IF there was a failure. And pay less than $200 to get on your way.

For the non-experimenters on this site, AC Spruce can have you a new starter delivered next day AM for $1778.18
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Correct - you don't need a starter for safe flight.

However, your chances of successfully starting an engine with a starter designed to fit on the case casting are significantly higher than something you hack together with spare steel/aluminum plate. (no disrespect to Steve -- he's a solid engineer that spent a bunch of time analyzing the problem and then developing his solution).

Aside from the inconvenience of not being able to start, consider the other odd in flight failure modes -- perhaps you pull a few too many G's and the starter pinion engages the ring gear, what then?

Slightly off topic - some folks also leave out that little steel bracket that ties the alternator to the starter...funny that, I wonder why that was there (sarcasm).

But, to each his own; this is the beautiful hazzard of Experimental-Amateur Built aviation.
 
I know people that have been using the auto starters with adapters for decades with no known issues. My concern is primarily the alternator which unfortunately has become a very questionable item. When my boat anchor FAA approved alt quits it will be replaced by automotive.
 
jrs14855 said:
I know people that have been using the auto starters with adapters for decades with no known issues. My concern is primarily the alternator which unfortunately has become a very questionable item. When my boat anchor FAA approved alt quits it will be replaced by automotive.
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Mine came with a 60 amp fork lift one when I bought it. Took it to an alt shop to have diodes redone due to whine, rebuild 165, brand new.....180
 
Jjackh10 said:
I apologize for my bit of thread drift. I don't know where to purchase a plate. But looking at the picture in Longeze's post it doesn't look to hard to fabricate. Some 1/4" plate, a drill press, a hole saw, and some very careful measuring, should net you one in an afternoon.
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The article that Gary linked above in post #3 contains design information for a bracket made out of 3/16" 4130 steel that I believe works with the ND starter that I am using.

Steve
 
The pictures of my Hiperbipe Summit starter are buried in an old hard drive, but until I locate them, all I did was bolt a flat plate of 3/8 aluminum to the 4 bolt pad of the Lyc starter location. This plate was a surrogate for the 2 bolt starter mount pad found on the ubiquitous small block Chevy. I drilled and tapped this plate and the Chevy starter bolted on with zero modifications just like it would on a 1970 Camaro. Gave me excellent performance and zero problems for the 10 years I had the airplane. It's still going strong 10 years later.
 
Toobuilder said:
The pictures of my Hiperbipe Summit starter are buried in an old hard drive, but until I locate them, all I did was bolt a flat plate of 3/8 aluminum to the 4 bolt pad of the Lyc starter location. This plate was a surrogate for the 2 bolt starter mount pad found on the ubiquitous small block Chevy. I drilled and tapped this plate and the Chevy starter bolted on with zero modifications just like it would on a 1970 Camaro. Gave me excellent performance and zero problems for the 10 years I had the airplane. It's still going strong 10 years later.
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Gotta love the small block chevy starter. It's been around almost as long as the Lyc's y'all are flying and arguably more reliable lol. Pretty sure the modern LS engines still use it. I had a starter on 6.2l chevy diesel go bad. The small block starter was over $100 cheaper at the time. It would reliably start that diesel for 3-4 months before giving up. I have no doubt it will start a low compression airplane engine for many years.
 
As I recall Lycomings have two different number of teeth on the ring gear. For those thinking about these automotive alternatives, which ring gear are they compatible with?
 
back in the day, mark landoll made a bracket for a 280z starter for the lycoming. worked great, im still using it. since mark is no longer with us does anybody know if he sold or passed his designs to anybody. it is a very simple steel bracket. if anybody has the rights to the design it might be worth putting back into production.
 
bjdecker said:
Oh, wait, then tell stories about how you made these modifications to your RV-9 and how you regularly cruise at 250knots IAS at 17Kft burning 3gph...
Click to expand...
I thought I was the only one aware of such mods. How did you get those extra 2 knots, I can only get up to 248. Gap seals?
 
n82rb said:
back in the day, mark landoll made a bracket for a 280z starter for the lycoming. worked great, im still using it. since mark is no longer with us does anybody know if he sold or passed his designs to anybody. it is a very simple steel bracket. if anybody has the rights to the design it might be worth putting back into production.
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That is a 9 tooth starter. You should use an 11 tooth with the 149 ring.
Or just buy this.....
 

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