What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Cheapest IFR platform

Gotta ask since we are on the subject of cheap IFR:
Reconditioned ARC/Cessna units are dirt cheap compared to other reconditioned units and should be the cheapest route to get IFR legal. Yet I can't remember that I ever saw anyone actually use them in an experimental.
Are they that bad or hard to install?
 
Used Cessna/ARC radios -Ugh.

The market has probably priced Cessna/ARC avionics fairly. In their day they were not known for reliability or quality. One airplane I flew with 300 series radios had poor receiver selectivity and broadcast stations were routinely heard. On the other hand, a 210 I owned had 400 series radios and they were fine. The ADF in particular was very good. The autopilot/flight director, however, was unreliable and no one could fix it. I would buy used King gear before ARC. The key will be repairablilty. Talk to local radio shops about each model you are considering. Some radios are unpleasant to work on and hard to fix. Parts availability will be a problem. Perhaps you could buy a few extra junk radios for parts. If you go this route everything will depend on your relationships with the avionics repairman. I'm talking Christmas presents. In the end, you may spend enough on repairs to negate the cost savings up front and still not have the reliabiltiy of new radios. Best of luck. Steve.
 
Old Radios

Matt,

Stay away from ARC. 400s were so-so, 300s weren't even worth cussing. Then keep this concept in mind, and I call it a concept because I remember the hand-wringing but not the specifics, so ask your prospective supplier:

The FCC tightened up bandwidth specs for avionics transmitters a few years back, when boxes went from 720 to 760 channels. The consequences have been baked into new offerings long enough that we now take it for granted. The hangover effect is that an older, non-compliant unit may be o.k. for repair or replacement, thus they are still for sale, but new installations must comply with the new standard thus probably restricting your used choices to newer gear.

John Siebold
 
jbDC9 said:
Ummm, legal to do what? That a bit of a vague statement... Like Dennis said above, if it's a DME approach or a DME arc transition, you need DME or an IFR GPS, but to fly enroute Victor airways and to shoot VOR or LOC approaches, no DME required.
Click to expand...

Yea, that's exactly what I was referring to.
 
ARC is OK for transponders

Stephen Lindberg said:
The market has probably priced Cessna/ARC avionics fairly. On the other hand, a 210 I owned had 400 series radios and they were fine. The ADF in particular was very good. Steve.
Click to expand...
The transponders are fine and as you say the ADF was good, but who cares about ADF. With new com radios (ICOM and others) you can buy at reasonable prices, plus they are smaller and have more features, the older generation radios are not a good "value" for new installations. However I do think older used King, Collins, Nacro and ARC(400) transponders can be of value. Even the Narco all in one NAV head/receivers are OK if you are looking for VOR/LOC or VOR/LOC/GS (if they meet the freq tollerance?). G
 
Last edited:
EAA's answer about legal IFR

I asked EAA about legal IFR equipment and got a Word document answer in my email today. I don't see any way to upload a Word doc. Anybody know how?

The short version is that the only things that have to be TSO'd are the transponder, the encoder, and the GPS. The required equipment is listed (same list already posted) but none of the rest of it needs to be certified. And not just because it's going in a homebuilt.

In fact, due to the wording of the Operating Limitations for homebuilts, we accidently wound up with a requirement for a VOR receiver, even though certified planes can get by with only GPS. Not that it makes much difference, but if they phase out VOR/ILS some day, I guess we'd have a problem.
 
jonbakerok said:
I asked EAA about legal IFR equipment and got a Word document answer in my email today. I don't see any way to upload a Word doc. Anybody know how?

The short version is that the only things that have to be TSO'd are the transponder, the encoder, and the GPS. The required equipment is listed (same list already posted) but none of the rest of it needs to be certified. And not just because it's going in a homebuilt.

In fact, due to the wording of the Operating Limitations for homebuilts, we accidently wound up with a requirement for a VOR receiver, even though certified planes can get by with only GPS. Not that it makes much difference, but if they phase out VOR/ILS some day, I guess we'd have a problem.
Click to expand...


email me the doc and i will post in on my site and post a link here for every one.

[email protected]

thanks,
 
Cheapest IFR panel to get certified in?

I am at the point where I need to make decisions about my panel. I have been thinking VFR for many months just to get the bird up and flying. But I am really thinking about going ahead and investing in an IFR panel. Other builders have advised it'd be much easier and cheaper than a retro fit later on. So this thread is highly interesting to me - cheapest cost IFR panel. One big concern is can you get a CFII to train you and get you certified in your own airplane with a minimal IFR panel, or will you likely end up in a C-172 at the local flight school? My thoughts so far are: the new Dynon large screen EFIS sport pack with EIS, Vans altimeter and airspeed indicator, Trutrak ADI attitude indicator with slip ball and electronic DG (might go with the new TRUTRAK ADI PILOT but that's moe money!) - it has been suggested that I need to really consider at least a wing leveler AP for single pilot IFR in a Vans RV. I had been looking at the Garmin SL-40, but that is out the window. So Garmin SL-30 with a Garmin GI 106A CDI - there goes "cheap" out the window! Other item is my Garmin 196. Already own it so I'll stick with it. I will likely get the Garmin 320A transponder as well. I am not IFR certified, so I don't know for sure how viable my "minimal" panel will be for training and IFR flight. Comments?
 
IFR Training

My first question is: why the electric DG when the Dynon already has that feature? I'd spend that money on the A/P. Does your setup have a marker beacon receiver?

Anyway, to your question: You obviously need to speak to some local instructors to see who is willing to work with you. The biggest problem will probably be getting someone a) willing to instruct in a homebuilt and b) either familiar with EFISs or willing to get comfortable with yours (too bad you don't live in SE Michigan...).
Training in the aircraft you intend to fly has plenty of advantages and since you will only have only one (IFR) nav radio, you will learn the workload and limitations involved. The SL30 is a good one to have if you only have one!
I think you'll find an A/P invaluable, although you'll probably have to do at least one approach without it on the flight test.
If you ever plan to fly IFR in an airplane with a 'standard' panel, you will want to get some training and/or practice because it will be significantly different. That's not bad, just something you need to be comfortable with before launching into the soup.
You may want to also talk to a local Designated Examiner as well, so you can find out if there are any questions you need to address - like explaining your electrical system (i.e. E-Bus) for practicing emergencies.

Dennis Glaeser
CFII (Rochester Hills MI)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top