Baggage door re-work

[Gino230]

My RV8 (bought not built) has about 1/16' gap on the aft side of the forward baggage door. It doesn't sit fully flush. The forward part looks good. I've read a few threads about how some builders strapped the door down, then finished riveting the interior portions of the door. I'm wondering if it's worth it to re-work the door in this way to help it sit flush.

Guessing I'd have to remove alot of parts in order to do this, and I'm guessing this would be considered an advanced type of project for a new owner? Has anyone re-worked the door on an older build? This airplane will never be a show plane (most likely anyway), it's a great flyer though and I'm having a blast tinkering with little things to make it mine.

 

[Mikeyb]

HELP--#%*$ Baggage Door

Ok guys, about to admit the baggage door has beaten me :(. This is the second door I've built and it is only marginally better than the first. I've read every thread on the board regarding the door and just can't find a magic potion. The fit is quite good everywhere except in the tight curve...

vansairforce.net

To me the baggage door was one of the most frustrating parts of the build. The ribs as delivered don’t match the shape of the fuselage.
Other than going through the processes described above I did find on dubious hack from some VAFers build log.
It might fit better if you leave some of the rivets out of the inner skin at the top. The argument is it isn’t really structural with the door closed.

 

[ERJDriver]

Can you not adjust where the pin goes in to lock it down on the aft side?

 

[Gino230]

Can you not adjust where the pin goes in to lock it down on the aft side?

That might cut the gap in half- as when I press on it, it does suck it down closer but not flush. The problem is like Mike states above, the ribs probably don't match the curve of the fuselage so the door is a slightly different shape. Trying to figure out a way to re-work it so it doesn't yell at me every time I walk by it in the hangar.

Edit: I'm wondering if some combination of drilling out a few rivets on the top of the inner skin, and adjusting the latch pin block might satisfy me for now.....

 

[rv8ch]

Guessing I'd have to remove alot of parts in order to do this, and I'm guessing this would be considered an advanced type of project for a new owner? Has anyone re-worked the door on an older build?

Hi Gino, Yes, it is considered "advanced" but if you read all the hints and tips available on VAF and some builder websites, I'm sure you can do it. I'd strongly urge you to get with an experienced builder for some help, however. There are little things that might not be obvious if it's your first time doing some riveting and proseal. Yes, I think some proseal or another structural adhesive will help a lot.

The newer RV-8 kits might even have all pre-punched parts which will probably fit great without a lot of work - mine was not pre-punched, but after carefully reading lots of tips, I think it turned out pretty good.

What's not clear is can you buy just the outer skin? Mine was part of the F821PP if I recall correctly. The fact that I recall that part number is an indicator of how much time the F821PP takes - but the baggage door was not that bad.

What's also nice is that you can work on this iteratively without taking your RV-8 out of service - removing the baggage door will only take a minute or so, assuming it was installed as per the plans. I would not try to re-use any of the existing parts.

 

[Gino230]

Hi Gino, Yes, it is considered "advanced" but if you read all the hints and tips available on VAF and some builder websites, I'm sure you can do it. I'd strongly urge you to get with an experienced builder for some help, however. There are little things that might not be obvious if it's your first time doing some riveting and proseal. Yes, I think some proseal or another structural adhesive will help a lot.

The newer RV-8 kits might even have all pre-punched parts which will probably fit great without a lot of work - mine was not pre-punched, but after carefully reading lots of tips, I think it turned out pretty good.

What's not clear is can you buy just the outer skin? Mine was part of the F821PP if I recall correctly. The fact that I recall that part number is an indicator of how much time the F821PP takes - but the baggage door was not that bad.

What's also nice is that you can work on this iteratively without taking your RV-8 out of service - removing the baggage door will only take a minute or so, assuming it was installed as per the plans. I would not try to re-use any of the existing parts.

This was going to be my next question, should I just order the parts or try and re work the existing ones. This project is a little farther down the list, in my drive for perfection, I was thinking of having the airplane painted. Right now it has a decent builder quality single color paint job, but it won't win any awards. To me it makes no sense to spend $30K on a paint job when you have a baggage door that doesn't fit, imperfect canopy skirt, etc. so all of those would have to be made right for me to invest the $$ in paint.

Problem being, every time I go to the hangar, I decide to go fly it instead of ripping it apart.

Sounds like I could order the parts for this and work on it "on the side". Right now I have the seat back for the aft seat that needs a repair, that is probably as easy as it gets so I'll start learning to rivet on that one.

Appreciate the replies. Cheers!

 

[sf3543]

My RV8 (bought not built) has about 1/16' gap on the aft side of the forward baggage door. It doesn't sit fully flush. The forward part looks good. I've read a few threads about how some builders strapped the door down, then finished riveting the interior portions of the door. I'm wondering if it's worth it to re-work the door in this way to help it sit flush.

Guessing I'd have to remove alot of parts in order to do this, and I'm guessing this would be considered an advanced type of project for a new owner? Has anyone re-worked the door on an older build? This airplane will never be a show plane (most likely anyway), it's a great flyer though and I'm having a blast tinkering with little things to make it mine. View attachment 98466View attachment 98467

It’s possible you could fix it using the parts you have…….maybe.
If your locking pins are holding the door out when closed you would have to redo that. if your door closes flush when unlocked but pushes out when engaging the lock, that could be your problem.
To start over with a new door also requires some finesse to get it to fit flush. Someone who has already done it would be a real asset to you. It does require being able to get inside to do the blind riveting from there while the door is fastened down. This means the rudder pedals and fwd baggage floors need to be removed as well as the front stick, seats and anything else in the way so you can get in there.
It’s a job!

 

[nzrv8]

I ordered new baggage door ribs from Van's in the last few months, and they fit a lot better than the ~2010 vintage ones that came with my kit. Might be worth ordering the parts for a new baggage door and starting over? Bonding the inner skin with proseal, and holding the door down with straps, then riveting the inner skin a week or so later worked for me.

 

[Ralph Inkster]

I would experiment first. Drill off the door inside panel, it should now be flexible & close flush unlatched, just hold it flush. You might find front edge interferes with the narrow skin attached to the firewall necessitating the front door edge being filed to fit.

If the door now fits satisfactory (again unlatched), now rework the rear latch block so it holds the door flush to the opening.

Now the experimental part, go to the hardware store & buy a can of expanding insulation foam. Spray a bead of foam on the inside of the door ribs & skin (avoid the locking mechanism!) and QUICKLY close the door & tape it shut before the foam starts to set. This should lock the door skin & ribs in the right shape. You can trim excess foam with a knife & re rivet the inside skin using NEWLY DRILLED rivet holes. (Do not use the old holes!)
All this could be done without removing the door from the plane.
Would be wise to tape plastic sheet over any areas you don’t want a foam mess.

 

[Mikeyb]

My experience from a kit delivered in 2019. I had read the VAF threads on the baggage door and that the door fit was was what the big kids looked at for build quality. I did the best I could at forming the ribs and by the time I had the outer skin on the frame and the blocks fit and working I had a B+. When I crawled inside the blasted thing and riveted the inner skin on it went to a C. The latch pins that slid in place nicely without any urging went to requiring pushing on the door and there is a slight gap at the back edge.

There is some possibility the problem isn’t only the door shape but the fact most of us didn’t roll the top skin before installation

Rolled Skin

Obviously not required, but if someone at your airport has a slip roll, it's easy to shape the forward skin. .

vansairforce.net

 

[brad walton]

Mine was pre prepunch. The problem was the door rib curvature was not the same as the adjacent fuselage curvature. After numerous attempts (tape, straps, foam, rivet inner door in place, etc.) I finally had success by reshaping the rib curvature with a hammer and dolly to match the corresponding fuselage curvature.

 

[N804RV]

The forward lower corner looks like it could just be tweak down a touch. That gap on the aft side looks like mine did before I finally got the aft latch block properly adjusted. The forward latch block was easy. The aft one I marked the position with the door in place and ratcheted down with a cargo strap. Once the block was screwed down in place I could not get the lock to engage. The way I solved it was to auger out the pin hole in the latch block with a dremel tool, just a tiny bit at a time, until I could just barely get it to lock. Not the most elegant solution. But, it works.

 

[chaskuss]

This was going to be my next question, should I just order the parts or try and re work the existing ones. This project is a little farther down the list, in my drive for perfection, I was thinking of having the airplane painted. Right now it has a decent builder quality single color paint job, but it won't win any awards. To me it makes no sense to spend $30K on a paint job when you have a baggage door that doesn't fit, imperfect canopy skirt, etc. so all of those would have to be made right for me to invest the $$ in paint.

Problem being, every time I go to the hangar, I decide to go fly it instead of ripping it apart.

Sounds like I could order the parts for this and work on it "on the side". Right now I have the seat back for the aft seat that needs a repair, that is probably as easy as it gets so I'll start learning to rivet on that one.

Appreciate the replies. Cheers!

Sounds like you don't really want to ground the 8 for repairs. Why not simply order all new parts for the door from Vans. You can work on it at your leisure, without grounding the plane. You can try fitting the replacement door, remove it and reinstall the ugly original temporarily so you can keep flying. Repeat as needed until happy with the new door.

 

[skyking902001]

Someone on this thread send me a private message requesting some pics of my build on the baggage door. However, I no longer have his member name or the link he was requesting the pics sent to. If whoever is still requesting pics, please let me know. I have a folder of pics and narrative on this subject. Thanks,
Steve

 

[Gino230]

HELP--#%*$ Baggage Door

Ok guys, about to admit the baggage door has beaten me :(. This is the second door I've built and it is only marginally better than the first. I've read every thread on the board regarding the door and just can't find a magic potion. The fit is quite good everywhere except in the tight curve...

vansairforce.net

To me the baggage door was one of the most frustrating parts of the build. The ribs as delivered don’t match the shape of the fuselage.
Other than going through the processes described above I did find on dubious hack from some VAFers build log.
It might fit better if you leave some of the rivets out of the inner skin at the top. The argument is it isn’t really structural with the door closed.

Just wanted to update- I took your advice on this. Drilled out the rivets pictured 2 at a time working my way inward and got a pretty good fit- then I fabbed up a new latch block. Not going to win any Lindys, but a massive improvement. Appreciate the advice. Now to do something about that lock- it just screams Home Depot to me, I am going to have to A. learn to use the lathe my buddy keeps in the hangar or B. learn to use CAD and turn my nephew loose with his 3d printer.

Before and After: