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Andair Fuel Valves

N804RV

N804RV

Well Known Member
Friend
Ever seen a FLYING aircraft with an Andair fuel valve that was missing the funky little screws that hold the elbow fittings in place? I have! All 4 screws on both fittings NOT INSTALLED!

I'm amazed that my friend was able to purchase this aircraft, fly it home, then fly it several times more as I was helping him work off some of the nit-noid avionics/electrical gripes he inherited without experiencing a fuel leak.

Then today, we smelled a little fuel in the cockpit enroute from our lunch stop to another airport to pick up some gear. Not bad, but enough to say, "hmm, we're gonna have to check that out at the next landing." I put a wrench on the fitting and the elbow popped right out and started gushing fuel from the wing tank!

I was literally sick to my stomach thinking about having been flying this aircraft. And, oh yeah we had electrical gremlins on this flight as well.

The only thing I can think of is that the elderly gentleman who sold the aircraft had the elbows off for some reason and just forgot to put the screws in. There's enough "stiction" on those valves with new o-rings that they probably seemed fine and if your old eyes don't have those readers on, you might miss that?!!!......IMG_1093.jpeg
 
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That is pretty terrifying. And these are hard to inspect in a lot of aircraft. I can see how this might happen, but still, wow!
 
N804RV said:
Ever seen a FLYING aircraft with an Andair fuel valve that was missing the funky little screws that hold the elbow fittings in place? I have! All 4 screws on both fittings NOT INSTALLED!

I'm amazed that my friend was able to purchase this aircraft, fly it home, then fly it several times more as I was helping him work off some of the nit-noid avionics/electrical gripes he inherited without experiencing a fuel leak.

Then today, we smelled a little fuel in the cockpit enroute from our lunch stop to another airport to pick up some gear. Not bad, but enough to say, "hmm, we're gonna have to check that out at the next landing." I put a wrench on the fitting and the elbow popped right out and started gushing fuel from the wing tank!

I was literally sick to my stomach thinking about having been flying this aircraft. And, oh yeah we had electrical gremlins on this flight as well.

The only thing I can think of is that the elderly gentleman who sold the aircraft had the elbows off for some reason and just forgot to put the screws in. There's enough "stiction" on those valves with new o-rings that they probably seemed fine and if your old eyes don't have those readers on, you might miss that?!!!......
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That was more than lucky, and we have debated in this forum if we need to use Loctite or stagged (pined) to secure the screws. Good time to buy a lottery ticket!

BTW mine (Duplex) came with the fittings not installed so possible they were never put in. Although he had to have tightened the AN6 flare fittings and did not pop off unless he pushed it back in or removed the screws after tightening the flare which is not an easy task to do in place.

Did it get a presale inspection? Was there any blue staining? Time for its first thorough condition inspection it seems.
 
You can see the screw staking marks right next to the screw countersink. I would bet that the screws were installed at the factory and the previous owner removed the elbows for some reason and failed to reinstall them.
 
9GT said:
You can see the screw staking marks right next to the screw countersink. I would bet that the screws were installed at the factory and the previous owner removed the elbows for some reason and failed to reinstall them.
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My Andair valves (For a 14 then 10) had 90's ordered (like the Ops) and since each can be configured in 3 different orientations the screws were not in place (came in a bag) and staked with a punch mark to use as a guide in the outer rim (at the same clocked position as the Ops) when decided what was the correct orientation. The 90's were inserted in the valve just no screws in place. Maybe if it was a straight fitting Andair might factory stake (and insert the screws) them since orientation is not a factor for a straight fitting. See pics of sockets pre-staked from Andair.

My point was if the screws were removed how did he tighten the flare fitting without the elbow popping out? Removing the screws after tightening (and screws properly staked) and valve in position is not easy.

Screenshot 2025-08-11 115712.png
Screenshot 2025-08-11 121401.pngScreenshot 2025-08-11 121457.png
 
Those elbow do fit pretty snugly. I think that’s the only reason my friend went as long as he did without them leaking. The elbow for the left side is the one that popped out. The elbow for the right side did not pop out when I put a wrench on the AN fitting to see if it was loose.

When I completely removed the valve, the right elbow was still snug even though there were no screws in it.

Right now we’re focused on recovering the aircraft. It’s AOG for another (electrical) problem.

We literally had a compound emergency yesterday with gas fumes and smoke in the cockpit. It was terrifying. But this morning we have the new valve installed (out of my -8), and are gonna work on the wiring.
 
We got him back home safe today. We'll be looking it over very closely before anymore lunch flights are done, thats for sure!
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I want to add a little note to this thread. The little privately owned "airport" we made our precautionary landing at is charted and open to the public. However it is very unfriendly. Even as far as giving the aircraft owner some grief about paying for the RON, use of a hangar and landing fees. He just assumed the owner was going to stiff him and was very rude. He wouldn't let a friend on the field loan us the use of a hangar (parking the friends airplane outside on a pad that the friend also has the rights to) so we could work in the shade. We had to rent a hangar for 24 hours. Very rude man. I'm not going to mention any names. But, this really ticked me off and I'll be happy to tell anyone face to face.
 
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N804RV said:
We got him back home safe today. We'll be looking it over very closely before anymore lunch flights are done, thats for sure!
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I want to add a little note to this thread. The little privately owned "airport" we made our precautionary landing at is charted and open to the public. However it is very unfriendly. Even as far as giving the aircraft owner some grief about paying for the RON, use of a hangar and landing fees. He just assumed the owner was going to stiff him and was very rude. He wouldn't let a friend on the field loan us the use of a hangar (parking the friends airplane outside on a pad that the friend also has the rights to) so we could work in the shade. We had to rent a hangar for 24 hours. Very rude man. I'm not going to mention any names. But, this really ticked me off and I'll be happy to tell anyone face to face.
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I must admit that when I do MOCKUPS, I rarely install the screws, well maybe 1 just to hold the fitting in place. But since we arent working on flight ready planes, I'm just amazed at this. Scared the h&&& out of me----just imagine at altitude and the fitting decides to pop off. So----another part to put on the inspection check sheet--but it should already be on there.
 
N804RV said:
We got him back home safe today. We'll be looking it over very closely before anymore lunch flights are done, thats for sure!
--------------------

I want to add a little note to this thread. The little privately owned "airport" we made our precautionary landing at is charted and open to the public. However it is very unfriendly. Even as far as giving the aircraft owner some grief about paying for the RON, use of a hangar and landing fees. He just assumed the owner was going to stiff him and was very rude. He wouldn't let a friend on the field loan us the use of a hangar (parking the friends airplane outside on a pad that the friend also has the rights to) so we could work in the shade. We had to rent a hangar for 24 hours. Very rude man. I'm not going to mention any names. But, this really ticked me off and I'll be happy to tell anyone face to face.
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I suspect I know the airport. My wife and I were considering buying a home on that airport and the incredibly rude and nasty people we spoke with on the field had us saying, NOPE. No way.
 
N804RV said:
Ever seen a FLYING aircraft with an Andair fuel valve that was missing the funky little screws that hold the elbow fittings in place? I have! All 4 screws on both fittings NOT INSTALLED!

I'm amazed that my friend was able to purchase this aircraft, fly it home, then fly it several times more as I was helping him work off some of the nit-noid avionics/electrical gripes he inherited without experiencing a fuel leak.

Then today, we smelled a little fuel in the cockpit enroute from our lunch stop to another airport to pick up some gear. Not bad, but enough to say, "hmm, we're gonna have to check that out at the next landing." I put a wrench on the fitting and the elbow popped right out and started gushing fuel from the wing tank!

I was literally sick to my stomach thinking about having been flying this aircraft. And, oh yeah we had electrical gremlins on this flight as well.

The only thing I can think of is that the elderly gentleman who sold the aircraft had the elbows off for some reason and just forgot to put the screws in. There's enough "stiction" on those valves with new o-rings that they probably seemed fine and if your old eyes don't have those readers on, you might miss that?!!!......View attachment 94707
Click to expand...
I've got those 6 port Andair valves in both of my RV-6's and to me it is VERY clear the need for those screws. With Locktite and staking. Seeing these pictures is like REALLY?????
How was it missed? And what LUCK it didn't come apart earlier.
But my luck varies FIXIT
 
I purchased a new valve from another VAF member. A few months later when I was installing it I noticed these screws were missing on both of the elbows. My guess is the seller forgot to toss in the packet of screws with the valve. I emailed Andair and they were nice enough to send me the screws.
 
We've been so busy fixing the big gripes that we put off fixing the gripes that didn't seem so urgent before. My friend called me last night and ask if we could do something about fact that his oil pressure indication occasionally dropped into the red periodically when pulling the throttle off for touch and goes. It only happened after the engine warmed up, and then only sometimes. Other times it stayed in the green or top of the yellow. He said another friend suggested it might be a problem with the sensor wiring. That seemed pretty likely to me also, so we went looking today.

We pulled the cowling off and I went over and looked at the connector on the sensor mounted to the firewall with the Van's type manifold for oil and fuel pressure. That looked good so I followed the wires back. The ground wires from the oil and fuel pressure sensors were crimped together on one ring terminal and grounded via a terminal strip mounted on the firewall. The ground wire for the fuel pressure sensor was well crimped, but the one for oil pressure came out with just a little tug. Gee, who'd a thunk! Another case for using mil spec ring terminals and good quality crimpers.

On a related note: I received the Andair fuel valve to replace the one I took out of my RV-8 build to get his -7A home on Monday. It came with the screws in the bag and the warning to make sure they were installed and either staked (British "stagged") or put in with Lock-tite. I'm gonna ask Andair if they'll send us some screws for the valve we removed and he'll have it for a spare, or maybe he can sell it and at least get some money back.
 
N804RV said:
We've been so busy fixing the big gripes that we put off fixing the gripes that didn't seem so urgent before. My friend called me last night and ask if we could do something about fact that his oil pressure indication occasionally dropped into the red periodically when pulling the throttle off for touch and goes. It only happened after the engine warmed up, and then only sometimes. Other times it stayed in the green or top of the yellow. He said another friend suggested it might be a problem with the sensor wiring. That seemed pretty likely to me also, so we went looking today.

I'm gonna ask Andair if they'll send us some screws for the valve we removed and he'll have it for a spare, or maybe he can sell it and at least get some money back.
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Andair will send you the screws as a comp. They are very good to work with. Also, extra O-rings in case you want to swap these at a later date. (They will charge you for these)

To answer your first question if using Garmin, you can set in the Advanced Configuration Menu to not get a CAS alarm when pulling the throttle back when the OT is already warmed up. (Warmed up oil easier to show lower OT's) You are getting a CAS alarm when the O.P. drops in the red?
 
N804RV said:
On a related note: I received the Andair fuel valve to replace the one I took out of my RV-8 build to get his -7A home on Monday. It came with the screws in the bag and the warning to make sure they were installed and either staked (British "stagged") or put in with Lock-tite. I'm gonna ask Andair if they'll send us some screws for the valve we removed and he'll have it for a spare, or maybe he can sell it and at least get some money back.
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Yes, screws in a bag with warning signs normal........
 
I wanted to document the documentation Andair provides with their valves. As stated earlier they do install screws and pin them for straight fittings and for elbows red tag them and pin the outer ring for you to screw in and pin then add screws later. See pics of a spare duplex valve I have in stock. (After wait times of almost a year during Covid I wanted to insure I had something if needed on my shelf)

It's hard to believe after this type of red tagging by Andair someone could forget to add the screws. I would not be flying this airframe until every nut and bolt were checked and double checked.
Screenshot 2025-08-16 012614.pngScreenshot 2025-08-16 012544.png
 
dmattmul said:
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It's hard to believe after this type of red tagging by Andair someone could forget to add the screws. I would not be flying this airframe until every nut and bolt were checked and double checked.
View attachment 95115View attachment 95116
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For the record, we are in the process of completely going over the aircraft. We've had 4 different experienced builders (3 of which are A&P and one avionics/electrical tech) So far it seems to me to be structurally correct. Wiring is not really any worse than many of the 60 year old certified trainers still flying. We replaced some wiring and connectors and done a little cosmetic work. But, its like the airplane was built by 2 different people, one a pretty good wrench and the other not so much.
 
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