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Alternator failure, what alternator?

Majorpayne317641

Well Known Member
My alternator decided to die. I think it is the vans provided legacy alternator for the RV8 Io360 combo. I tried the Suzuki trick but even though the case looked almost identical the pulley is actually further forward. Well just to get things going I decided to replace the guts from the new alternator to the old alternator case. Now the alternator works!

But, I noticed the shaft is pretty worn and I’m wanting a really reliable replacement capable of IFR that won’t change the stand off distance or boss mount setup I have. I’m ok with aircraft alternators I just want it to work. Any suggestions? Thanks.
 
My alternator decided to die. I think it is the vans provided legacy alternator for the RV8 Io360 combo. I tried the Suzuki trick but even though the case looked almost identical the pulley is actually further forward. Well just to get things going I decided to replace the guts from the new alternator to the old alternator case. Now the alternator works!

But, I noticed the shaft is pretty worn and I’m wanting a really reliable replacement capable of IFR that won’t change the stand off distance or boss mount setup I have. I’m ok with aircraft alternators I just want it to work. Any suggestions? Thanks.

B&C alternator and bracket is what you want.

If you use the search function, you will find a lot of info on alternators.
 
Just installed

I just installed the bandc small belt drive alt. Had the spline drive before. The belt drive works like a champ. Saw 21 amps charge after start. Really good.

I am thinking about selling the spline drive setup….
 
To be honest the price isn’t anymore than plane power. I was at aircraft spruce looking at a few certified options and they were all around $1300. Where do you mount the voltage regulator? Do I have the same control over the field via simple cockpit on off switch?
 
What advantages are there to externally mounted VRs? Is the vans kit by Plane Power that bad that I should avoid? I think the alternator that broke was of the same variety but it doesn’t have stickers on it. It did last 1300hrs.
 
If you must mount the VR on the cockpit side of the firewall, use ~1/2” stand off insulators. The firewall gets hot (on both sides).

Better yet to mount it on the bulkhead aft of the firewall.

Carl

Agree-----inner bulkhead would be preferred. You will probably other electronics mounted there as well.
 
Failure mode / Root Cause

Sorry to hear about your alternator failure. By any chance have you determined why & how the alternator failed?

It would be a shame (waste of time & money) if you replaced the alternator and the new one failed again.
 
Sorry to hear about your alternator failure. By any chance have you determined why & how the alternator failed?

It would be a shame (waste of time & money) if you replaced the alternator and the new one failed again.

Not sure what they are called but the armature that contacts the pulley shaft seems to have pretty deep wear marks and the armature wasn’t completely contacting the shaft. I replaced that and the internal voltage regulator. The coils and coil leads looked fine. The bearing is smooth.
 
Not sure what they are called but the armature that contacts the pulley shaft seems to have pretty deep wear marks and the armature wasn’t completely contacting the shaft. I replaced that and the internal voltage regulator. The coils and coil leads looked fine. The bearing is smooth.

This? (see pic)

This is the regulator/brush carrier assembly -- the graphite brushes conduct field current to the rotor (armature). The brushes are pushed against copper alloy races on the spindle by springs under each brush. Sounds like the brushes wore out/failed and allowed the springs to "dig in" to the spindle.

This is a wear item that should be inspected and replaced as necessary.

Edit: Aircraft Spruce sells the brushes (2) - see https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/brushset07-00963.php
 

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Yes that, the shaft was worn pretty bad so I’m going to get a new alternator instead of taking a chance on this one. It does work and has worked fine for 3 hours now to get the plane ferried home.
 
Yes that, the shaft was worn pretty bad so I’m going to get a new alternator instead of taking a chance on this one. It does work and has worked fine for 3 hours now to get the plane ferried home.

The commutator or the rotor shaft? The rotor shaft should be the last thing to fail. Photo?
 
My alternator decided to die. I think it is the vans provided legacy alternator for the RV8 Io360 combo. I tried the Suzuki trick but even though the case looked almost identical the pulley is actually further forward. Well just to get things going I decided to replace the guts from the new alternator to the old alternator case. Now the alternator works!

But, I noticed the shaft is pretty worn and I’m wanting a really reliable replacement capable of IFR that won’t change the stand off distance or boss mount setup I have. I’m ok with aircraft alternators I just want it to work. Any suggestions? Thanks.

1980 honda civic is what you're looking for. Not a suzuki.

Otherwise get the b&c.
 
What advantages are there to externally mounted VRs? Is the vans kit by Plane Power that bad that I should avoid? I think the alternator that broke was of the same variety but it doesn’t have stickers on it. It did last 1300hrs.

Unscientifically and with no real evidence, I believe that an external regulator has greater longevity due to living in a cooler place (electronics don't like heat). Take that for what it is, one man's opinion. Auto alternators have been internally regulated for several decades and they seem to pretty easilly get 100K miles of service, with many going to 150K, so noting really wrong with IR when properly executed. These figures are for the actual OEM versions. Get a cheap overhaul with off shore regulators and the numbers are very different.

IF you do some searching here, it seems there are WELL more than a handfull of folks that have seen their PP alternators go south in a relatively short period of time (100-300 hours), some have even bought 2 or 3 of them before 500 hours. Never seem to hear that with the B&C versions. Cheap auto versions also have very few reports of early failures. Mine has 1000 hours now of trouble free service. Given what I have observed on this site, I would NOT buy a PP alt.
 
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Auto Alternators

Unscientifically and with no real evidence, I believe that an external regulator has greater longevity due to living in a cooler place (electronics don't like heat). Take that for what it is, one man's opinion. Auto alternators have been internally regulated for several decades and they seem to pretty easilly get 100K miles of service, ....snip... Given what I have observed on this site, I would NOT buy a PP alt.
I'll agree.. However- My RV ran the Mitsubishi IR brushes out- 1100 hours 8ish years. I think I got my $75 out of that Alternator... I'm rebuilding the brushes up with spare unit for now to fly temporarily. I like the looks of the B&C internal Reg unit. Maybe it will go another 2400 hours trouble free as this 180 HP Lycosaurus has done? :rolleyes:
 
My alternator decided to die. I think it is the vans provided legacy alternator for the RV8 Io360 combo. I tried the Suzuki trick but even though the case looked almost identical the pulley is actually further forward. Well just to get things going I decided to replace the guts from the new alternator to the old alternator case. Now the alternator works!

But, I noticed the shaft is pretty worn and I’m wanting a really reliable replacement capable of IFR that won’t change the stand off distance or boss mount setup I have. I’m ok with aircraft alternators I just want it to work. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Vans 60amp alternator "was" EA 14684 (drawing OP-10 F6) but now catalog is listed as plane power. New 14684N alternator can be purchased from auto parts suppliers.
 
Unscientifically and with no real evidence, I believe that an external regulator has greater longevity due to living in a cooler place (electronics don't like heat). Take that for what it is, one man's opinion. Auto alternators have been internally regulated for several decades and they seem to pretty easilly get 100K miles of service, with many going to 150K, so noting really wrong with IR when properly executed. These figures are for the actual OEM versions. Get a cheap overhaul with off shore regulators and the numbers are very different.

IF you do some searching here, it seems there are WELL more than a handful of folks that have seen their PP alternators go south in a relatively short period of time (100-300 hours), some have even bought 2 or 3 of them before 500 hours. Never seem to hear that with the B&C versions. Cheap auto versions also have very few reports of early failures. Mine has 1000 hours now of trouble free service. Given what I have observed on this site, I would NOT buy a PP alt.

The above is true based on history and what you will find here.

I have said this before and will say it again.

1. I have Plane Power and I have B&C alternators.
2. The "original" Plane Power has been purchased by Hartzell.
3. Hartzell is/has been reengineering the PP alternator that they now own.
4. It is **MY OPINION**, based on info that they have shared, that Hartzell will apply the same level of engineering quality to this alternator as they do their props. (I think that most of us trust the engineering of their props and are grateful for their support of our community.)

I share this to point out that as a person with product from "both sides of the fence", I would not, at this point in time write off Plane Power as " ... this is not your father's Plane Power alternator...". (The older ones of us who have followed automobile ads will get the reference here. :)

Having said all of this, one of the MAIN causes of failure of the PP alternators has been heat causing the "electronics" to fail. (Yes, there were other areas that needed to and have been changed/reengineered.)

A remotely mounted, external regulator (like B&C) increases the reliability significantly. It is an important factor, though not the only factor to influence the length of service.

In case you are wondering, no, I am not being paid to said this, although I HAVE had serious conversations with their management and know how hard they are working to make the products "right".
 
PP Alternators

Jclark - my opinion & experience with the PP units don't match up with your "based on info that they have shared".
I'm about to order 6 other systems due to failures, & expected failures based on a few years recent experience, of various sorts including an RV10 that had a primary & backup Alt that fail within ~ 6hrs of each other (at approx 201hrs total time. The backup failed during the journey to have both replaced, go figure.
The faults I'd seen -
Broken stator wires
Regulator failed
Cooling shroud cracked & broken away from body of the Alt.
Bearing spinning in the housing of the FS 14B (Vac Pad mount unit) &
The splined coupling just disintegrated on the 201hrs example above.
I've asked about warranty however the shipping cost from here to Hartzell & back, plus the downtime for some who need their aircraft for business, resulted in giving up the idea & just going for another well known reliable & externally regulated system.
Ps - it's interesting to note that the 'certified' units of the same size are reported by the LAME's (A&P guys here) as not giving the sorts of problems the experimental versions have. Make your own opinion as to why that is so. YMMV
 
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