EarthX does monitor this site. I know they have lots of batteries out there now, and I trust that Kathy would speak up if they were having problems and/or believed the risk was too high for us.
Vic
Vic
As a holder of a patent on lithium ion battery charging and protection, i would never use one in my RV or fly in a non certified plane with one. It just is not worth the risk. I feel LiIon batteries are too dependent on manufacturing defects to keep them safe for airplane use. Also the cold at altitude and other environmental factors may (over)stress the battery. They are great for model airplanes and consumer electronics one can chuck out the window if they get too hot in flight. This is my opinion based on what I know of the physics of Li ion batteries. I feel I have to speak out becuase most pilots dont know what they dont know about the dangers of Li Ion technology for RV use.
EarthX does monitor this site. I know they have lots of batteries out there now, and I trust that Kathy would speak up if they were having problems and/or believed the risk was too high for us.
Vic
Vic, the "I trust" statement sounds like "I hope". my neighbor has an EarthX that had a warning light that illuminated but it was difficult to see on the battery. he has now wired the new EarthX battery warning light inside the cockpit. he made it for Florida and back but carried a spare Odessey just in case.
Sorry if trust sounded like hope. I certainly don't believe in hope when it comes to airplanes.
I will follow up with them. I know we have a good many of us running the Earthx batteries, and I know of one fault light that came on so far and they imediately replaced the battery.
Vic
I'm probably #2, but it was a great experience with EarthX. Last summer I got the slow flashing light from my ETX-900 (battery fault). I immediately contacted EarthX, who asked me to send the battery to them immediately. Meanwhile, they immediately sent me a new battery (warranty and all). My takeaways:
- Unlike the battery in the OP's post, the EarthX battery has dual redundant battery management computer systems. Like Paul Dye said, they WORK.
- As soon as the battery management system sensed a fault, no matter how slight, it warned me, and let me take action.
- Derivatives of the root word IMMEDIATE showed up several times in Vic's and my narrative above. I like GA-supporting businesses that work that way, especially regarding my aircraft.
My 2 cents...
............ he has now wired the new EarthX battery warning light inside the cockpit. he made it for Florida and back but carried a spare Odessey just in case.
I had a light come on my fairly new Earthx. They "immediately" replaced it, at no cost to me or any questions asked other than me describing the fault. Excellent customer service.
curious as to the shipping method for returned EarthX batteries with a blinking light. any extra precautions needed?
If the impetus for going to the EarthX is weight savings, I fail to see how carrying a "spare" Odyssey makes any sense.
Is there any reason for using the light-weight lithium-based batteries other than weight savings?
[Not yet convinced] ..............
Hello Mike,..for addressing the concerns stated in previous posts. Now that you are a VAF advertiser, I would strongly recommend checking into the site regularly, even if it's not every day, for just this reason. The experimental aviation community needs to be educated about this technology, if we're ever going to adopt it into our aircraft.
Thanks to the press and posts from those who have had negative experiences, we all know there are dangers that exist within this technology. What we need to understand better is: how are those dangers being addressed, controlled and/or removed from the equation. We also know that there are different battery chemistries and that each company making these batteries chooses their own path to a viable and sellable product.
We need to know if there is a product out there that is truly viable for experimental aviation, and, if so, how it is safer than the ones we hear about in the press. I personally believe your product may be the one, but I want to learn more, and I think most of us would say the same.
As President of EAA Chapter 301, I look forward to your presentation to our Chapter on March 17th. We have a lot of members who are intrigued but want to know more. I think it will be a great program.
To others who want to learn more about EarthX, I would urge you to talk to them, via phone, VAF posts, emails or in person at Airventure 2017, if you're going to be there. They are good people and, IMHO, sincerely want to create a safe, viable product for us.
..for addressing the concerns stated in previous posts. Now that you are a VAF advertiser, I would strongly recommend checking into the site regularly, even if it's not every day, for just this reason. The experimental aviation community needs to be educated about this technology, if we're ever going to adopt it into our aircraft.
Thanks to the press and posts from those who have had negative experiences, we all know there are dangers that exist within this technology. What we need to understand better is: how are those dangers being addressed, controlled and/or removed from the equation. We also know that there are different battery chemistries and that each company making these batteries chooses their own path to a viable and sellable product.
We need to know if there is a product out there that is truly viable for experimental aviation, and, if so, how it is safer than the ones we hear about in the press. I personally believe your product may be the one, but I want to learn more, and I think most of us would say the same.
As President of EAA Chapter 301, I look forward to your presentation to our Chapter on March 17th. We have a lot of members who are intrigued but want to know more. I think it will be a great program.
To others who want to learn more about EarthX, I would urge you to talk to them, via phone, VAF posts, emails or in person at Airventure 2017, if you're going to be there. They are good people and, IMHO, sincerely want to create a safe, viable product for us.
Hello Mike,
Question concerning your Chapter 301 meeting. I had initially read your post thinking: "Hmmm, it might be fun to fly out to Denver and attend your meeting. Then I saw that the 17th is on Friday. So do you have an evening meeting on Friday then? I have flown with the EarthX for about a year now and thought I could spend a Saturday flying out and visiting a new EAA chapter but not so sure it is doable for a Friday meeting. I would love to attend this meeting and listen to Kathy's presentation though. It ought to be informative.
FYI; here is a great product for the over voltage protection I mentioned in the previous post: http://www.bandc.aero/over-voltageprotectionmodule.aspx that only costs $40 but could save you thousands in damaged electronics.
Kathy, you mentioned the crowbar sold by B&C. Their site says this is the same module they include in the B&C regulators, which cut off at 16.0V according to the installation manual.
In an earlier post you said, "if your voltage reading is above 15.1V, you need to immediately take your alternator off line to avoid the above scenarios."
Can you tell us if the battery releases its magic smoke when the voltage regulator fails and the output is, say, 15.8V, which would not be enough to activate the crowbar, but I continue flying blissfully unaware for another hour?
Thanks for responding to all the questions.
2) In the event of a charging system failure where the voltage increases to above 15.2V, the resistance to charging current increases, and above 16V the charging current is completely blocked. This design offers charge voltage protection greater than 40V. The discharge current (current out of battery) is unaffected in this situation.
1) The weakest link in the charging system is the REGULATOR which is rarely discussed.
3) When you are in flight, if your voltage reading is above 15.1V, you need to immediately take your alternator off line to avoid the above scenarios. Ideally, you will have overvoltage protection on your regulator (crowbar) that takes the human factor out and will automatically do this.
Dear Bill,
Thank you for your questions. When a regulator fails, the voltage will climb quickly and be beyond the discussed voltages (15.1V-16.7V) in seconds, even milliseconds. It is not a steady voltage reading as it is not “regulated” any more. If you have a crowbar protection circuit, it engages very quickly and automatically. You do not need to wait for the pilot to recognize the issue and then react. Having crowbar protection is wise for any plane to have, no matter what battery they are using. I personally would not use a lithium battery that has no BMS protection nor would I have a regulator that does not have crowbar protection as I would not be comfortable with this level of equipment failure backup, I like redundancy.
And to clarify this situation, this is when your regulator has failed and the voltage is left unchecked and climbing. This is not when you have transient spikes, a crowbar will not be triggered for this nor is the BMS protection inside the battery. These are normal and expected spikes. The protection comes into play when the voltage remains at a high level and is still rising.
Maybe there is some good news coming:
https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
Maybe there is some good news coming:
https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology
Kudos to EarthX for leading the way, that is why they catch the flak.
Lithium Ion: bad. Those are the types we see exploding into flames in e-cigs, iPhones, etc.
Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO): Good.
Unfortunately I think the reality is a lot more complicated than this, and the terminology can certainly be confusing. Here's what I've pieced together so far (note: I could be wrong so please take this with a grain of lithium!):