What's new
Van's Air Force

The definitive Van's Aircraft support community! Buying, building or flying an RV? Join our exclusive family of mentors and enthusiasts!

Seat comfort?

P

pitts12driver

Active Member
I have a recently completed RV-7A and I have a question regarding other people's experiences with seats. Let me first say that the plane is generally amazing, beats every number claimed by Vans, and my comments are in no way meant to impugn a specific vendor. I'm merely trying to solve a comfort problem that I acknowledge seems to be worst for me.

I bought a complete interior kit from Classic Aero including their Aviator seats. The workmanship is fantastic, the kit was complete, and the parts fit the airplane perfectly. I just can't get comfortable. I'm 6'1", 190 lbs, and for lack of a better explanation the seats feel too "puffy", too vertical, and sit at an uncomfortable angle. I acknowledge this is an entirely subjective reaction. My 5'8" daughter thinks they are fine. But inside of an hour, I have nerve pain shooting down my leg, and am dying to get out. I have numerous other aircraft and cars with tight seating - this is the only plane I can't find a spot that I like. I've tried lumbar supports but adding padding exacerbates the issue. Other male pilots approximately my size have had similar complaints flying the plane, but no one has been quite as miserable as I seem to be.

I'm curious if anyone has a seat they love. I'm curious if there is a thinner seat people are aware of. If anyone has started from a similar place, and found a solution, I'd be eternally grateful.
 
pitts12driver said:
I have a recently completed RV-7A and I have a question regarding other people's experiences with seats. Let me first say that the plane is generally amazing, beats every number claimed by Vans, and my comments are in no way meant to impugn a specific vendor. I'm merely trying to solve a comfort problem that I acknowledge seems to be worst for me.

I bought a complete interior kit from Classic Aero including their Aviator seats. The workmanship is fantastic, the kit was complete, and the parts fit the airplane perfectly. I just can't get comfortable. I'm 6'1", 190 lbs, and for lack of a better explanation the seats feel too "puffy", too vertical, and sit at an uncomfortable angle. I acknowledge this is an entirely subjective reaction. My 5'8" daughter thinks they are fine. But inside of an hour, I have nerve pain shooting down my leg, and am dying to get out. I have numerous other aircraft and cars with tight seating - this is the only plane I can't find a spot that I like. I've tried lumbar supports but adding padding exacerbates the issue. Other male pilots approximately my size have had similar complaints flying the plane, but no one has been quite as miserable as I seem to be.

I'm curious if anyone has a seat they love. I'm curious if there is a thinner seat people are aware of. If anyone has started from a similar place, and found a solution, I'd be eternally grateful.
Click to expand...
Keep the back in and get rid of the seat cushion, then try various other cushions, pillow or even a phone book. When you get what fits you butt take the original seat cushion and pull out the filler and fill it back up with what made you tush happy.
 
I've flown in two planes with the Classic Aero seats (one of them the Aviator style) and have found them to be very comfortable. I'm 4" shorter than you, so maybe we're comparing apples to oranges. Can we assume you've tried playing with different combinations of the bottom seat seat and seat back adjustment positions? Three positions on each one, and with an A-model, you're not having to sit upright to see over the nose. Also, doesn't the Aviator have a sliding lumbar support knob on the back?
 
Thanks Dubya - yes - I've tried all the available combinations and permutations. I really think what I need is a much thinner seat back that tapers toward the top to give me another 1" of recline. I may build my own...
 
One VAF poster says “The forward position of the Almost a 14 Seat Mod is the same as the aft position of the standard configuration.”

antisplataero.com

Almost a RV14 Seat Mod - AntiSplatAero

THE “ALMOST A 14” SEAT MOD – MAXIMIZE YOUR RV’S COMFORT Introducing our newest addition to the lineup of Van’s RV accessories – the “Almost a 14” Seat Mod! This affordable and easy-to-install upgrade transforms the cockpit of your RV-6, RV-7, or RV-9 (slider canopy), making it feel as roomy as...
antisplataero.com antisplataero.com
 
Last edited:
pitts12driver said:
That looks exactly like the solution to my issue... I have to see if it will work with the extended slider tracks I have in the plane.
Click to expand...
Flyboys says:

Q: Can the Supertracks be used with the Anti-Splat Almost-14 mod?

A: Yes, these two mods play together nicely. In a rare case, we’ll sometimes have customers have issues with a fastener from the Almost-14 mod interfering a little bit with the S-tracks. It’s up to you to figure out how to deal with that but it shouldn’t present much of a problem for a person who has built the rest of an airplane!
 
I have the Almost 14 mod and Supertracks in my RV7. They work very well together. From your description, it sounds like the Almost 14 mod is exactly what you need. With the Almost 14 mod and the seat in the aft position, the canopy doesn't slide back quite far enough to work well. The Supertracks mod fixes that.
 
Back cushions and positions are only entirely suited to each pilot's individual senior spine.

I went through the cushions from Flightline Interiors (whose interior carpeting are AWESOME!! thanks Abby), plus two attempts from Classic Interior. SUPERIOR products from them all, but my particular backbone arrangement couldn't abide.

Oregon Aero's products finally aligned my spine enough to make long-term flights delightful again.

One man's story and endorsement.

Yours may differ.
 
It’s funny you mention comfort, because I was just thinking about this same situation. In my -7 with the classic aero aviators I also can’t seem to find a comfortable recline position. I’m also 6’1, 210ish. I recently did a long cross country to Boise and by the end of each 1.5 hour leg, I found myself shifting around a lot trying to get comfortable. I have not tried all the combos of positions, but I am hoping it’s something I can just get used to maybe? I’m not sure what my plan is, but I don’t think I could fly more than a few hours non stop at the moment. I’m curious what you end up doing long term. I hope you find something that works!
 
I’m 6’ 5” and when I built the seat back hinges into the seat floor I put my side further aft thinking it might give me more leg room. Actually, that was pretty uncomfortable and I found using a more forward hinge with more recline made a massive difference to comfort but little impact to legroom.
 
pitts12driver said:
I have a recently completed RV-7A and I have a question regarding other people's experiences with seats. Let me first say that the plane is generally amazing, beats every number claimed by Vans, and my comments are in no way meant to impugn a specific vendor. I'm merely trying to solve a comfort problem that I acknowledge seems to be worst for me.

I bought a complete interior kit from Classic Aero including their Aviator seats. The workmanship is fantastic, the kit was complete, and the parts fit the airplane perfectly. I just can't get comfortable. I'm 6'1", 190 lbs, and for lack of a better explanation the seats feel too "puffy", too vertical, and sit at an uncomfortable angle. I acknowledge this is an entirely subjective reaction. My 5'8" daughter thinks they are fine. But inside of an hour, I have nerve pain shooting down my leg, and am dying to get out. I have numerous other aircraft and cars with tight seating - this is the only plane I can't find a spot that I like. I've tried lumbar supports but adding padding exacerbates the issue. Other male pilots approximately my size have had similar complaints flying the plane, but no one has been quite as miserable as I seem to be.

I'm curious if anyone has a seat they love. I'm curious if there is a thinner seat people are aware of. If anyone has started from a similar place, and found a solution, I'd be eternally grateful.
Click to expand...
Adam, Are you using the F-638 Seat Back Braces? Even before I flew, I could not stand the vertical back position that they caused. So, I have never used them - they are not even installed in my RV-7. The seat back simply rests against the cross-support. I did put some Gorilla tape on the edge of the cross-support to protect it. Merrill

8127D855-93CE-4000-972F-815D98FEA7B9_1_201_a.jpeg
 
mdevans9 said:
Adam, Are you using the F-638 Seat Back Braces? Even before I flew, I could not stand the vertical back position that they caused. So, I have never used them - they are not even installed in my RV-7. The seat back simply rests against the cross-support. I did put some Gorilla tape on the edge of the cross-support to protect it. Merrill

View attachment 121733
Click to expand...
I built “shorty” seat back braces that put the seat about 1/4” from the cross bar. I don’t think anyone ever noticed it was different. Functioned exactly the same as the original, just more seat recline.
 
I don’t understand the specific problem of the op nor do I understand the nerve pain shooting kind of stuff.
-If you explained the pain better perhaps more could be offered.
-this sounds like a medical problem, why not seek out help from professionals
-if this is just sciatica there are some effective stretches like the figure 4 stretch.

And, for my understanding, did you sit in one of these models before building? If so, what is different?

I dislike most of the fancy center console options for my model due to position change limitations.

I had some intense mainly right knee pain (a positive theatre sign) and spent weeks doing many different things. I could barely sit still at night or in the plane. I feared my flying could be over. Therapy gun, tens, exercise, rest, nothing worked.

I delved deeper into dr utube and found the bob and brad pt channel. Watched their long source of knee pain videos and started doing the exercises for patellar femoral pain syndrome. Within days there was some improvement, the exercises were goofy to start.

Joe hippensteel has some good info out there also, basically tightness in some over developed area leads to compensation problems.

It is abnormal to have sitting pain. I’d focus on that rather than the seat.
 
scrollF4 said:
Back cushions and positions are only entirely suited to each pilot's individual senior spine.

I went through the cushions from Flightline Interiors (whose interior carpeting are AWESOME!! thanks Abby), plus two attempts from Classic Interior. SUPERIOR products from them all, but my particular backbone arrangement couldn't abide.

Oregon Aero's products finally aligned my spine enough to make long-term flights delightful again.

One man's story and endorsement.

Yours may differ.
Click to expand...
+1

I initially had the stock seats and had major comfort issues. Mostly muscle pain in back of legs and gluts. Switched to oregon aero and it mad a BIG difference. Now screaming to get out at 3 hours instead of 1 hour. Sorry, never tried the other versions, but they all look to be similar shapes as stock. OA designs seats for a living and their shaping is radically different than the stock ones. Their designers understand anatomy and design to match. They designed the 10 seats and I can sit in those for 5 hours and still no complaints. However, the seating geometry is very different there and overcomes the main isuue with the two seaters - legs rise up above waist. This is what causes the issues in the back, due to over stretching hamstrings and gluts, which then pull discs together causing the nerve impingement.
 
Last edited:
pitts12driver said:
I have a recently completed RV-7A and I have a question regarding other people's experiences with seats. Let me first say that the plane is generally amazing, beats every number claimed by Vans, and my comments are in no way meant to impugn a specific vendor. I'm merely trying to solve a comfort problem that I acknowledge seems to be worst for me.

I bought a complete interior kit from Classic Aero including their Aviator seats. The workmanship is fantastic, the kit was complete, and the parts fit the airplane perfectly. I just can't get comfortable. I'm 6'1", 190 lbs, and for lack of a better explanation the seats feel too "puffy", too vertical, and sit at an uncomfortable angle. I acknowledge this is an entirely subjective reaction. My 5'8" daughter thinks they are fine. But inside of an hour, I have nerve pain shooting down my leg, and am dying to get out. I have numerous other aircraft and cars with tight seating - this is the only plane I can't find a spot that I like. I've tried lumbar supports but adding padding exacerbates the issue. Other male pilots approximately my size have had similar complaints flying the plane, but no one has been quite as miserable as I seem to be.

I'm curious if anyone has a seat they love. I'm curious if there is a thinner seat people are aware of. If anyone has started from a similar place, and found a solution, I'd be eternally grateful.
Click to expand...
Hi Adam,

I'm sorry to hear about the issues you're having. We are always happy to help in any way we can. Based on the information you shared, I do have a couple of recommendations.

I do want to mention that we have put a lot of thought into the design of our Aviator seats. They were designed with the main goal being proper spinal position (within the constraints of an RV). Without getting into a long winded post, I'll just say that this is one of the most important factors for overall comfort (there are actually several points of debate on this). We've been making seats for over 23 years, and our Aviator seats have been steadily evolving for most of that time. Comfort feedback on our Aviator seats from customers has been overwhelmingly positive over the years. One even reported a single leg flight of 2050 nautical miles (yes you read that right, 16.5 hours using ferry tanks in an RV-9A) from Hilo to San Francisco in one of our Aviator seats with no complaints (https://memoryflightrtw.weebly.com/blog).

One thing we realized early on was that spinal curvature is specific to each individual. This means that a one size fits all approach wasn't going to work. Instead we decided to make the seat adjustable in as many ways as we could to address the problem. There are 3 main variables that we can control when it comes to the curvature of the spine (there are a few other secondary variables as well).
  • Lumbar pad vertical position
  • Lumbar pad depth
  • Bottom cushion rake angle
Having said all that, from your description, I think the issue may be something else. You said that the seat feels too upright. This leads me to think that you may have the backrest installed in the rear most seat hinge position. This is actually not recommended with the Aviator seat back. We usually advise customers of this, but we should probably put a label right on the seats to indicate it explicitly. The reason is that the design of our frame was intended to make the backrest easier to hinge forward with the bottom cushion installed. As a result though, putting our frame in the middle hinge position means that the backrest angle is now equal to the stock frame in the most rear position. And, putting our frame in the most rear position makes the backrest angle steeper than intended.

A backrest that is only a few degrees too steep can have a huge impart on your lower back. I suspect this may be the issue. If that's not the case, let me know and I'd be happy to discuss other adjustments that are possible. I'm sure we can resolve the issue.

Also, we've found that many of our taller RV-7 and RV-9 customers have benefited greatly from installing the "Almost A 14" mod from Antisplat Aero. With that mod, you can put our Aviator frame in the rear most hinge (for max leg room), and have at least as much recline angle as the stock seat. That may be a good solution for you. Looking forward to hearing from you

Best regards,
Luke
 
Last edited:
Luke D said:
Hi Adam,

I'm sorry to hear about the issues you're having. We are always happy to help in any way we can. Based on the information you shared, I do have a couple of recommendations.

I do want to mention that we have put a lot of thought into the design of our Aviator seats. They were designed with the main goal being proper spinal position (within the constraints of an RV). Without getting into a long winded post, I'll just say that this is one of the most important factors for overall comfort (there are actually several points of debate on this). We've been making seats for over 23 years, and our Aviator seats have been steadily evolving for most of that time. Comfort feedback on our Aviator seats from customers has been overwhelmingly positive over the years. One even reported a single leg flight of 2050 nautical miles (yes you read that right, 16.5 hours using ferry tanks in an RV-9A) from Hilo to San Francisco in one of our Aviator seats with no complaints.

One thing we realized early on was that spinal curvature is specific to each individual. This means that a one size fits all approach wasn't going to work. Instead we decided to make the seat adjustable in as many ways as we could to address the problem. There are 3 main variables that we can control when it comes to the curvature of the spine (there are a few other secondary variables as well).
  • Lumbar pad vertical position
  • Lumbar pad depth
  • Bottom cushion rake angle
Having said all that, from your description, I think the issue may be something else. You said that the seat feels too upright. This leads me to think that you may have the backrest installed in the rear most seat hinge position. This is actually not recommended with the Aviator seat back. We usually advise customers of this, but we should probably put a label right on the seats to indicate it explicitly. The reason is that the design of our frame was intended to make the backrest easier to hinge forward with the bottom cushion installed. As a result though, putting our frame in the middle hinge position means that the backrest angle is now equal to the stock frame in the most rear position. And, putting our frame in the most rear position makes the backrest angle steeper than intended.

A backrest that is only a few degrees too steep can have a huge impart on your lower back. I suspect this may be the issue. If that's not the case, let me know and I'd be happy to discuss other adjustments that are possible. I'm sure we can resolve the issue.

Also, we've found that many of our taller RV-7 and RV-9 customers have benefited greatly from installing the "Almost A 14" mod from Antisplat Aero. With that mod, you can put our Aviator frame in the rear most hinge (for max leg room), and have at least as much recline angle as the stock seat. That may be a good solution for you. Looking forward to hearing from you

Best regards,
Luke
Click to expand...
Luke - Thanks so much. Please be assured that I have nothing but admiration for your products and the work you do. I've ordered the Anti-Splat kit and it will arrive on Wednesday. I'm looking forward to installing it and seeing the difference. I know subtle changes make an enormous difference. For example, I have carbon bucket seats in a sports car. They were okay - but a common mod is to install a 1" lift at the front mounts. It sounds trivial, but the difference is monumental - I can drive the car comfortable for 5 hours which was simply not possible before.
 
Great to hear! Let me know how it goes, and keep in mind that if the seat back angle isn't the issue, or is only part of the issue, there are some other adjustments we can make to get it dialed in for you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top