$40k. Slow build. Paint 2/10, internals primed. Interior 5/10, pretty bare. It has been outside on tarmac for 13 years and it shows. Not flown much last 2 years. Tip up canopy with two 4" cracks tha have been drill stopped. O 320 narrow deck with recent top end but ancient bottom. Not fast - about 130kt cruise. Nice sensenich ground adjustable prop. Ifr hodge podge panel with trutrak 2 axis autopilot - I hope thatnworks. Bad garmin 400w gps - possibly repairable. Bad trutrak glass efis- not replaceable. Glitchy gauges. Good Garmin g5. Bruce cover. Prop cover. Gust lock. Toe brakes left side. Fuel tank leak but will be sold repaired hell or high water. I am told it flies straight - we shall see.
Van's Air Force
The definitive Van's Aircraft support community! Buying, building or flying an RV? Join our exclusive family of mentors and enthusiasts!
Talk me out of buying a rough RV6A
- Thread starter sam stone
- Start date
I'd say the engine condition will tell you if it is worth anywhere near $40K. Not flown much and sitting out on the ramp isn't a good combination for engine longevity. Start with scoping the cylinders . If you see rust, walk. Then pull a mag. If the gears in the accessory case are rusty, walk. Engine rebuilds are not for the faint of heart these days.
^^^
This.
A bad engine + a couple of accessories could turn that $40k investment into an $80k one real quick. If the engine is in good shape, then it's worth a big chunk of the ask price.
This.
A bad engine + a couple of accessories could turn that $40k investment into an $80k one real quick. If the engine is in good shape, then it's worth a big chunk of the ask price.
A bad engine plus a needed new panel will turn this into a $100,000.00 investment that isn't even finished. Let's see new tanks, rudder cause of cracking, on and on and on.
If you are a mechanic it can be less but out on the RAMP means a lot of problems. Ugh!!!!!!!
I bought an RV-6A 6 years ago off a ramp But I knew what I was getting into having mostly built an RV-6 before.
But hey my luck varies FIXIT
$40K buys you a PROJECT, not a plane. Sounds like you acknowledge that fact by your description of it. Are you up to the challenge?
briand
Well Known Member
Here’s what Mr. T thinks about it:
Listen up, fool! I said listen up! You talkin’ ‘bout buyin’ that crusty old RV-6A sittin’ out in the sun like a raisin in July? I pity the fool who thinks that’s a “good deal,” Sam Stone!
That plane’s been bakin’ on the tarmac for thirteen years, brother! Paint’s flakin’ off like dandruff, the primer’s showin’ through like a bad haircut, and that “bare interior” ain’t minimalist—it’s neglected! You think that engine’s just gonna purr back to life? Naw, sucker—it’s gonna cough, spit, and drain your wallet faster than a Vegas weekend!
You can shine the spinner and polish the cowling all you want, but that bird’s got corrosion hidin’ in places you ain’t even dreamed of. Wing roots, spar caps, control linkages—rust never sleeps, fool!
You want to fly, not pray every time you push the throttle! You want to build time, not build debt! So do the smart thing, chump—walk away from that sun-baked jalopy and find yourself an RV that’s been loved, not left.
Mr. T says: “Buyin’ that plane ain’t ownership—it’s adoption of a problem!”
Listen up, fool! I said listen up! You talkin’ ‘bout buyin’ that crusty old RV-6A sittin’ out in the sun like a raisin in July? I pity the fool who thinks that’s a “good deal,” Sam Stone!
That plane’s been bakin’ on the tarmac for thirteen years, brother! Paint’s flakin’ off like dandruff, the primer’s showin’ through like a bad haircut, and that “bare interior” ain’t minimalist—it’s neglected! You think that engine’s just gonna purr back to life? Naw, sucker—it’s gonna cough, spit, and drain your wallet faster than a Vegas weekend!
You can shine the spinner and polish the cowling all you want, but that bird’s got corrosion hidin’ in places you ain’t even dreamed of. Wing roots, spar caps, control linkages—rust never sleeps, fool!
You want to fly, not pray every time you push the throttle! You want to build time, not build debt! So do the smart thing, chump—walk away from that sun-baked jalopy and find yourself an RV that’s been loved, not left.
Mr. T says: “Buyin’ that plane ain’t ownership—it’s adoption of a problem!”
Just for comic relief, here’s what I found on my old RV-4. Lots of it wasn’t necessarily visible on a pre-buy…
* Landing gear was out of alignment, so I fixed that
* Motor mount was cracked, easy to fix while it was off
* The reinforcements on the back of the firewall were cracked, and were replaced with the later types
* Rebuilt the fuel tanks – not that big a deal
* Vinyl wire everywhere – rewired the plane
* Completely redid the instrument panel
* One on wing rear spar, the bolt hole was siamesed and there was a half moon plug
* Redid fuel lines in the cockpit
* And normal kinds of repairs. My record is a full condition inspection in four hours, me taking things apart, the AI inspecting, and me putting things back together. At that point, everything had been fixed so it was pretty easy.
The plane is still flying, near as I can tell. It has new paint and N#, but the serial number is 686
* Landing gear was out of alignment, so I fixed that
* Motor mount was cracked, easy to fix while it was off
* The reinforcements on the back of the firewall were cracked, and were replaced with the later types
* Rebuilt the fuel tanks – not that big a deal
* Vinyl wire everywhere – rewired the plane
* Completely redid the instrument panel
* One on wing rear spar, the bolt hole was siamesed and there was a half moon plug
* Redid fuel lines in the cockpit
* And normal kinds of repairs. My record is a full condition inspection in four hours, me taking things apart, the AI inspecting, and me putting things back together. At that point, everything had been fixed so it was pretty easy.
The plane is still flying, near as I can tell. It has new paint and N#, but the serial number is 686
My 6a has been sitting on the ramp since ‘19 and have zero problems related to that fact, excluding the paint wear and tear and that isn’t even very bad. Certainly not like my hangered plane, but not beat to heck either. My plane is well maintained and have very few problems with it, certainly no more than the average hangered plane, again, excluding paint wear. Plane and engine have 1600 hours and runs and flies just like it did at 0 hours.
A well built and maintained plane will most always do well and poorly built and maintained plane will not. Need to look much deeper than where the plane is parked to find which end of the spectrum a plane sits at.
It doesn’t sit on the ramp because it is not cared for; its an economics thing. In the last 6 years, have saved almost $20,000 in fees, so could easily re paint with the savings. I have liability fears, so would never sell the plane. Could care less if people wouldn’t buy due to sitting on a ramp. My 10 on the other hand lives a pampered life in a hanger, as i will likely sell that some day and therefore do care how it looks externally and how others will perceive its quality.
Last edited:
Not mentioned so far... pull the HSTAB intersection fairing and check out SB crack inspection. Check the rest of the empennage SBs. While there look at the HSTAB forward spar bolt attachment to the fuselage. The bolts need to run through THREE 3/4" angles and not violate edge distances. Take photos and post them here. This is a FREQUENT f'up area in the build.
in the course of 20 inspections, i have seen that done correctly, either no edge distance violations or proper reinforcement when blown, in only 4-5 cases.
Last edited:
Where was it parked? New Orleans or El Paso? As others have said, it depends on your mission, budget, and skills.
Plenty of sensible posts above.
Consider the engine as core value to start with. Expensive, but an engine is an easy thing to fix. The 2 things that I'd look for is
A/ build quality
B/ corrosion
Correcting mistakes is always doable, but the time/cost equation could lead one into a deep well... and so could corrosion.
I've seen some of them early models -6 or -4 being sold for what I think are very low prices. And quite a few, save for antiquated avionics, looked pretty good to me. Most of those changed hands for about double the selling price of that sitting jewel... in which you'd invest as much, not accounting for your time.
Good luck, and please report back, we're all curious
Consider the engine as core value to start with. Expensive, but an engine is an easy thing to fix. The 2 things that I'd look for is
A/ build quality
B/ corrosion
Correcting mistakes is always doable, but the time/cost equation could lead one into a deep well... and so could corrosion.
I've seen some of them early models -6 or -4 being sold for what I think are very low prices. And quite a few, save for antiquated avionics, looked pretty good to me. Most of those changed hands for about double the selling price of that sitting jewel... in which you'd invest as much, not accounting for your time.
Good luck, and please report back, we're all curious
Thanks. I have an rv experienced a&p (he has built 7 planes) lined up to do a prebuy. I will talk to him about that.
:-/ closer to new orleans
briand
Well Known Member
This one’s only 30K more.
RV6A For Sale
2014 VANS RV-6A 317 TTSN 20 SMOH O 360 180 HP 235 SPOH ENGIEN OVERHAULED USING NEW SUPERIOR CYLINDERS, PISTONS AND ROCKER ARMS, NEW SUPERIOR CAM, LYCOMING DIAMOND COATED LIFTERS, CRANK SHAFT INSPECTED AND TESTED. ICOM A210 COMM AREA 660 GPS TRUTRAK II AUTO PILOT 406 ELT EDM 350 ENGINE ANALYZER...
vansairforce.net
I don’t think anyone has come right out and said it, but this would be a terrible idea *especially* if you’re planning on paying someone else to do the refurbishment for you.
If you want a project and you’re willing to donate a thousand hours of your time, then go for it. You’d *probably* be able to recoup your hard costs and you’d learn a bunch along the way. You’ll be *way* upside down if you pay a pro to do the work.
If you’re thinking this is a good way to amortize the cost of building a plane, I think you’d be better off saving the $2000 a month on average that you’ll spend on this project and, instead, go buy a nice, ready to fly $135k plane in 4 years.
I bought a piece of crap Midget Mustang for cheap and spent 6 years tearing it down past quick build stage and then rebuilding it to show status. I had 2x plus into it versus what I sold it for. I would’ve been better off just starting a new build or buying the most expensive Midget Mustang on the market!
I learned a lot. That’s probably the best I can say about the experience. I ended up buying a fantastic RV3 for about 2/3rds the cost of my Midget Mustang rebuild! And the 3 flies way better to boot!
That’s my 50¢.
If you want a project and you’re willing to donate a thousand hours of your time, then go for it. You’d *probably* be able to recoup your hard costs and you’d learn a bunch along the way. You’ll be *way* upside down if you pay a pro to do the work.
If you’re thinking this is a good way to amortize the cost of building a plane, I think you’d be better off saving the $2000 a month on average that you’ll spend on this project and, instead, go buy a nice, ready to fly $135k plane in 4 years.
I bought a piece of crap Midget Mustang for cheap and spent 6 years tearing it down past quick build stage and then rebuilding it to show status. I had 2x plus into it versus what I sold it for. I would’ve been better off just starting a new build or buying the most expensive Midget Mustang on the market!
I learned a lot. That’s probably the best I can say about the experience. I ended up buying a fantastic RV3 for about 2/3rds the cost of my Midget Mustang rebuild! And the 3 flies way better to boot!
That’s my 50¢.
People out there flying solid basic 6s they bought in mid $50Ks. I don't think these planes were designed to hang out outside. Honestly not sure I'd take that thing for free.
If you are asking the gallery, then you are questioning your choice. And from your description, probably not a good choice. I would also suspect neglect will rear its ugly head during a proper pre buy.
If you have deep pockets and plenty of time, go for it. If you have deeper pockets and don’t have time so you have to pay someone else to do the work go for it.
Personally, I would take my initial 40k along with the $$ you are going to spend fixing it up and go find a bird somebody has loved on.
If you have deep pockets and plenty of time, go for it. If you have deeper pockets and don’t have time so you have to pay someone else to do the work go for it.
Personally, I would take my initial 40k along with the $$ you are going to spend fixing it up and go find a bird somebody has loved on.
Zbuilder801
Member
That 6a can be sold with little worry if the engine and wings were removed as a condition of the sale after the demo flights are done. Just a thought.
I've done a few annuals on older RV-6A's and there will definitely be lots of "deferred maintenance" that will need to be done to have a safe airplane. The logbooks hopefully are complete and filled out with the maintenance done, and not just the "annual condition" entry. Otherwise, you'll need to consider pretty much everything like hoses, tires, brakes, belts, as needing replacement since 13 years outside will not be kind to anything rubber. Magnetos, fuel pump, carb, etc. all have their own instructions for continued airworthiness and those should be checked/replaced. Look at all of the Service Bulletins from Van's and make sure they are complied with. Some are harder to verify than others. A really thorough pre-buy is a no brainer to at least go over the airplane before even setting a price.
See my blog link for some more recent write ups of what you might find... As others have posted, everything is fixable, but if you want to buy and fly then a project may not be what you want.
See my blog link for some more recent write ups of what you might find... As others have posted, everything is fixable, but if you want to buy and fly then a project may not be what you want.
An interesting thought i have considered. The big fear is that the registration and paper trail forever lists me as the builder / mfr. therefore I suspect I am at the top of any lawyers list when a spouse comes looking to collect money for their misfortune. Sure, i could make the argument that i took the engine off and someone had to reinstall. Doesn’t really help when someone runs out of gas a d slams into a mountain. Attorney’s will identify all sorts of meaningless things I didn’t but should have done when building it that caused the pilot to do that, therefore negligent. You would be surprised to learn how many times companies like cessna pay out millions in settlements or judgments when the crash was identified as pilot error. Seems crazy to some, but thats the way the system works, at least as i have observed it.
I really wish a strategy like that would to eliminate the risk.
I think this is not that complex. If you have an estate that is worth going after, your lowest risk is to just completely scrap the aircraft. Sadly, it's been done.
In other words, if you are worrying about losing some money while getting rid of an RV, then you probably don't have enough money to be interesting to the lawyers. Not to say you can always avoid getting caught up in the legal discussion should something bad happen, but (typically) the survivors are going after money, not retribution.
You could easily throw a year and 20k at each of the issues with this ramp queen. Paint, avionics, and engine.
Is there enough room in there, to add 60k and a year of your work to a 40k aircraft to make it worthwhile?
there are 2 flyable right now RV6’s on <SNIP> at 60k, one looks like it could be IFR. 2 more at 80k, and 100k.
Are you a glutton for punishment?
Last edited by a moderator:
agree 100%
This week in “Terrible Internet Legal Advice” has gotten off to a good start.
There are some steps you can take to limit your exposure. Not really sure parts removal would do anything… But in the US, absent new federal legislation, if you build an airplane and then sell it there is NO surefire way to protect yourself from defending, and possibly even losing, a future lawsuit alleging that some harm was caused because it was badly constructed.
Period. Regardless of any fervent belief in a given scheme, regardless of what you read on the internet.
Builders HATE hearing this. Understandably.
To be sure, such lawsuits do seem to be uncommon. That’s likely because (a) they’re hard to win on the merits in many many cases, (b) builders generally lack insurance coverage for sold products, and (c) plaintiffs’ lawyers prefer to focus on insurance coverage, as it’s harder to squeeze cash out of individuals—who may also lack appreciable assets.
But it only has to happen once, if it happens to you.
Lufthans
Well Known Member
I've done the same with my RV3. But I am an idiot. And love to build. And have enough other planes to play with while building. And I am going rogue on the engine installation, so a project aircraft is what worked best for me. If you're in it to fly?.. not so sure...
In any case, whatever you do, DON'T FLY IT before you've gone through it completely!!
My confession: https://vansairforce.net/threads/the-ferry-flight-that-should-never-have-been.186101/
Hans
In any case, whatever you do, DON'T FLY IT before you've gone through it completely!!
My confession: https://vansairforce.net/threads/the-ferry-flight-that-should-never-have-been.186101/
Hans
