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Rv-10 door seal.
- Thread starter Bberv
- Start date
It would be helpful if you could post pictures of how your door jambs look. That might help determine your easiest path forward.
Agreed lots of ways to finish off the door jamb area. Pics would help. BTW since I did not want to install the seals before paint left them off and noise level not too bad but obviously rain might be an issue.
Test it with a 3”x5” card. Put the card in the door frame, shut the door, feel how much resistance there is when pulling the card out. The more the better.
Carl
I assume you have seen how "most" 10's built now use a McMaster-Carr seal on the "joggle" around the door frame. The added noises is probably normal for a 10 and the best way to reduce noise is a good pair of ANR headsets. I do not have a door seal installed yet (waiting for painting to install) and it's about the same noise level as my 14 measured with a soundcheck app.
I see you do not have a center-locking pin (I have really bad internet access and downloads are very slow and not very clear) but if not hopefully your locking pins on the ends have a magnet trigger that indicates they are locked in place.
If you have a poor seal I think the task is to learn if it is everywhere or select spots. I’d relax and fly with it for a bit to figure that out. For me, the noisiest part was copilot side up top at the hinge brackets. Having a friend trace the door with a bright light on a dim day while you observe from the seat might help. Better yet, fly a bunch.
My seals go over the door frame which had not been built up well during the build so the seals fell off easily. I studied how to build them up, played around with them for a bit and decided to just try a bit of clear silicone to hold them in place, so far so good. But I did replace the seals. In the process of playing around with these I had to recognize the amount of time and effort vs potential for frustration/limited benefit/downtime/ or screwing something up.
I’d advise spending time looking at door seal videos and discussions to see the different products. Basically seal the door is stock and seal the frame is what most seem to do. A long standing member builder suggesting sticking with stock.
My recollection of stock is that it is a stick on application, not a rivet in place solution as shown in the photos.
Perhaps your product is not stock or designed for this application. When I look closely I suspect you have a custom made “seal” that really does not seal. Someone sewed some piping in material and made a nice interior.
Perhaps your product has lost its seal integrity and could be replaced with the same or similar
Enjoy the new ride!
My seals go over the door frame which had not been built up well during the build so the seals fell off easily. I studied how to build them up, played around with them for a bit and decided to just try a bit of clear silicone to hold them in place, so far so good. But I did replace the seals. In the process of playing around with these I had to recognize the amount of time and effort vs potential for frustration/limited benefit/downtime/ or screwing something up.
I’d advise spending time looking at door seal videos and discussions to see the different products. Basically seal the door is stock and seal the frame is what most seem to do. A long standing member builder suggesting sticking with stock.
My recollection of stock is that it is a stick on application, not a rivet in place solution as shown in the photos.
Perhaps your product is not stock or designed for this application. When I look closely I suspect you have a custom made “seal” that really does not seal. Someone sewed some piping in material and made a nice interior.
Perhaps your product has lost its seal integrity and could be replaced with the same or similar
Enjoy the new ride!
2 suggestions.
1. Register with Vans and get a set of plans and see how the seals are supposed to be done stock. Don’t worry about retrofitting the McMaster mod on a flying airplane you didn’t build. Yours appear to be non continuous. As designed it’s supposed to be one continuous piece of seal
2. This one is much more important. If you haven’t already- read SB 10-1-4. I’m surprised there are still non compliant 10s flying around. Not trying to have a go. But it’s been a factor in multiple fatalities so just drawing your attention to it in case you weren’t aware. Id strongly recommend the planearound center latch instead of the vans 3rd latch.
Enjoy your RV10! They are wonderful aircraft
Regarding the second comment... The planearound center latch is (IMO) the very best way to protect yourself and your airplane against losing a door. I strongly recommend it (and am not affiliated with the company other than as a satisfied customer). For what it is worth, I'm aware of one fatality that was door related (the one in California). I'm also aware of multiple door losses, at least one of which resulted in substantial aircraft damage because the departing door hit the horizontal stabilizer.
PlaneAround LLC RETROFIT 180 DEGREE KIT
RV-10 doors that currently only turn 90 to 110 degrees. Enables cam to pull the door in with extra pin engagement. Allows one to two inches of optional pin extension This kit will outfit two RV-10 doors and comes with replacement handle gear racks (shown in photo). This kit also includes Delrin...
planearound.com
SB 10-1-4 - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes
Install Door Safety Latch
www.vansaircraft.com
Van’s RV-10 Crash in Fullerton: A Fatal Door Failure!
An unsecured door, pilot modifications, and a critical turn led to a tragic Van’s RV-10 crash in Fullerton, CA. What went wrong? Read the full story.
pilotdebrief.com
Can you point out to me where in the plans this is called for? I'm not seeing that. Also, the picture does not seem to be rubber as what I am reading.
Attachments
Auburntsts
Well Known Member
So I have the stock seals (which work just fine I might add). In the OP’s pics, while that’s how the stock seals are installed, those don’t look like the stock seals, at least not the ones that came in my kit many moons ago. They look after market to me but I must say they look better than mine which is the only drawback IMO to the stock seals — they aren’t very cosmetically appealing. So to the question, the seals aren’t going to do much of anything to lower the noise in the cockpit. They are there to keep wind and rain out. If they are doing that then they are working as designed. That said I suppose if they aren’t sealing well the airstream noise might be contributing to the overall cabin noise level but I think you’d be hard pressed to hear that over the engine/exhaust/prop noise.
The poster's pics look like door welting/windlace made up by whoever did the upholstery. It's made with a strip of upholstery material wrapped around a foam core and sewn up. They're usually for decorative beading and crack filling between the door and frame. Not sure they're doing much sealing.
howardtlcc
Well Known Member
One area of leaks and noise is around the door hinge area. Try using a flashlight to see if this area is sealing well.
Thank you all for your input. I didn’t realize how incredible the RV community was going to be. I tried the 3X5 card with little to no resistance in multiple locations. The builder installed deeper reinforced brackets for the door pins along with an alerting system to make sure all pins are engaged. I would think that is sufficient?!?
Short answer. No.
Longer answer. I think a dozen or so RV-10's have lost a door. Might be 8, might be 15. As far as I know, none of them had the planearound center latch. What it does is pull the door(s) tight as you cycle the handle so your door pins land in the holes in the cabin top. Just as good, you can see that both planearound latches are properly seated. What seems to happen is people close the doors and don't get the aft pin seated, then the door pops open in flight. Unfortunately, the magnetic switches that are part of the standard latch warning kit are fairly sensitive and can give a false "closed" reading. Alternately, pilots miss the "door pins not engaged" light, or the light is broken, or they didn't install it, or... So the indicator lights are imperfect. In every "Highly recommended mod's for the RV-10" thread, the Planearound latch is at the top of the list.
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While I agree that the center latch is the best approach in this regard, there are other options, just not as foolproof as the center latch. The big problem is the strut pushes the rear of the door away, so easy to have the rear pin not hit its socket. This is compounded by the fact you can’t easily see it and from the front, it appears to be fully shut. An insidious problem.
I also would not trust the warning lights. Options: You visually check the rear pin is properly engaging on every flight. Instal the vans center latch(ugly, but easy), Install a strap anchored somewhere that you put around the door handle before flight.
I have a center latch system and it is great. But it is not a small project to install on a flying plane, especially if not mechanically inclined. I also have the warning lights installed in the rear pins only and they have never failed. However, I spent a good amount of time testing this setup and precisely installing them to the clearances that work based upon the materials used in my setup . It is easy to get this wrong (you are sensing magnetic energy) and you end up with unreliable results. So, if you didn’t install it, don’t trust it.
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