That’s interesting and if representative of the broader situation we need an explanation and update from the source.
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Engine, Prop and Avionics Update posted
- Thread starter Brantel
- Start date
NavyS3BNFO
Well Known Member
This is what I got in an email back in May. My expected delivery date for my TB IO360 is Jan '25. Note the 120 days. Was there a different # in the contract we signed? I honestly don't remember.
What to Expect
When your engine’s production slot gets close – approximately 120 days before Lycoming delivers the engine – Van’s will contact you requesting you to send the balance due for the engine order. Van’s then sends Lycoming your payment (50% immediately to maintain the planned production slot, and 50% upon completion of manufacturing). Note: it is critical that you submit your final payment in a timely manner when notified (within 14 days or less) to avoid the risks of losing your production slot, incurring a potential price increase if one has occurred since your order was priced, and substantially delaying your engine build.
We look forward to getting all open engine orders produced at Lycoming and will periodically update you with new information when it becomes available.
Thank you!
- The Team at Van’s Aircraft
NavyS3BNFO
Well Known Member
So i went back and looked at the contract we all signed and it's black and white - 60 days. So why the discrepancy from what we agreed to contractually? And what recourse do we have if Vans asks for final payment 120 days before TPC production? Can they unilaterally cancel our contract or bump us back in line? Maybe Greg can chime in on the discrepancy because 60 and 120 is a big difference.
FINAL PAYMENT AND DELIVERY. Approximately 60 days prior to the TPC(s) being produced by the thirdparty
supplier, Seller will provide notice to Buyer (the “Production Notice”) stating (a) that the TPC(s) is entering the
Production Date window, and (b) the final price of the TPC(s) (the “Final Price”), and a final payment of the order
balance, consisting of the Final Price less the deposit amount received (the “Final Payment”) will become due upon
Buyer’s receipt of the Production Notice. The Final Payment must be received by Seller within 14 days of Buyer’s
receipt of the Production Notice.
I was told by Ann in kit sales that Lycoming requires Vans to send finial payment 90 days before scheduled production. Here we go again..........make the rules, brake the rules, Make new rules, brake the new rules! Doesn't matter what you have in writing it can always be changed.
Sorry to hear you were not able to get a tour. I used the online form, and also emailed Chris, as I wanted to have a look at the TB build area. I talked with Chris at OSH and he offered to provide a tour, and to reach out when interested. I think the key may be sending in the form no more than 3-4 weeks before you plan on being there. I got an email back requesting more info.
I will agree, the bulletproof looking glass at the front entrance was odd. I felt like I was at a check cashing business in the bad part of town. Stark contrast to what I experienced at Hartzell, where they have a nice lobby showing lots of their tech.
Anyway, I don't want to sound to negative, because the tour was great. We were shown all around, and never felt rushed, or question unanswered. Big thanks for them taking the time!
It was interesting to see the stations and cells where the engine components are machined. Lots of, what looked to be, newer CNC milling machines. The engine assembly line was surprisingly small, but what do I know. The main building is quite old. When we toured the engine test cell area, the old cast iron doors of the test cells looked like they could hold back anything an exploding engine could throw at it. The tour is capped off with a run through a small museum. It has everything from their bicycles to auto engines to twelve cylinder aviation engines Lycoming once made.
Sorry, this is a bit off topic.
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Is it wrong to lust after what appears to be a Jodel in the background of your pic on a Vans forum?! I'm glad your engine turned up... A good result after an interesting nine months...Sooo, for Van's and Lycoming the wheels seem to be turning again
My March 22 ordered TB O-360 engine (hopefully that what's in the box...) was delivered this Monday.
View attachment 66797
@rsr3 no Jodel, but not far off as a Robin DR400... and yes, I should have photoshopped it away as it is one of those antique French wood & fabric (remember mr Louis Blériot?) thingy that bears little or no relation to our proud zillions of holes filled by aluminum rivets flying dreams 
Still, wonder what's really inside that wooden box (talking about THE box, not the aircraft behind
)... a Rotax, a 6 jugs souped up Lyco... or my ordered red color naked (no fuel no ignition) TB 360?
Still, wonder what's really inside that wooden box (talking about THE box, not the aircraft behind
)... a Rotax, a 6 jugs souped up Lyco... or my ordered red color naked (no fuel no ignition) TB 360?So open THE $%&?@#! Box!@rsr3 no Jodel, but not far off as a Robin DR400... and yes, I should have photoshopped it away as it is one of those antique French wood & fabric (remember mr Louis Blériot?) thingy that bears little or no relation to our proud zillions of holes filled by aluminum rivets flying dreams
Still, wonder what's really inside that wooden box (talking about THE box, not the aircraft behind
(And we expect a full report.)
NavyS3BNFO
Well Known Member
Curious when you were notified it was ready/shipping and when final payment was due.Sooo, for Van's and Lycoming the wheels seem to be turning again
My March 22 ordered TB O-360 engine (hopefully that what's in the box...) was delivered this Monday.
View attachment 66797
@NavyS3BNFO
- April 13th received this mail:
Hello
Your engine is scheduled to be built in June. Lycoming want advance payment.
Please send the final balance $xxxxxx
The bank wire transfer instructions are attached here. This cannot be paid on a credit card.
(not 100% sure, but I seem to recall the contract stating 10 days for final payment)
- May 13th received this mail:
Good morning
I just wanted to let you know that we will be building your engine a little earlier than expected, your engine will built in May rather than June.
- July 8th
Good morning,
We received quotes for your Engine from OIA
(International shipping required for my engine which was now ready)
- July 15th, engine delivered
- April 13th received this mail:
Hello
Your engine is scheduled to be built in June. Lycoming want advance payment.
Please send the final balance $xxxxxx
The bank wire transfer instructions are attached here. This cannot be paid on a credit card.
(not 100% sure, but I seem to recall the contract stating 10 days for final payment)
- May 13th received this mail:
Good morning
I just wanted to let you know that we will be building your engine a little earlier than expected, your engine will built in May rather than June.
- July 8th
Good morning,
We received quotes for your Engine from OIA
(International shipping required for my engine which was now ready)
- July 15th, engine delivered
Has anyone received their Thunderbolt 540 here lately? I was told on July 2 to send in my finial payment for a November scheduled build date that is 60 days sooner than the contract says and I was told if I didn't send it that I would be moved back in the que. I sent it. I just talked to Chris Gayman today at Lycoming and he said that my new scheduled build date is December due to a shortage of sumps. That means they will have my full payment 6 months before my engine ship date if it even happens. I have been told so many times that my engine was next in que.
BigBadBob
Active Member
On 8/16 Van's told me regarding my 390EXP: "they are building it right now and predict shipment next week. The day it ships they will send tracking info which I will forward to you."
Nothing heard so I called yesterday and was told they are almost ready to ship. For sure this week.
This makes me very nervous because it is always possible Van's suffer problems (like the new rib stiffener problem) and ........
Nothing heard so I called yesterday and was told they are almost ready to ship. For sure this week.
This makes me very nervous because it is always possible Van's suffer problems (like the new rib stiffener problem) and ........
The price of my 390 Thunderbolt engine went up again. Mine isn't scheduled to be delivered until February 2026. I wonder if the price will hit $100,000 by then. Hey, it's gone up almost $20,000 in 17 months. If it goes up another twenty grand in the next 17 months, the price will be $95,000!
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That look like tax maybe, are you sure your price changed? I just paid in full for mine a week or so ago, and it had not changed.
I'm sure it changed on the Van's website (see below). I'm an Oregon resident so no sales tax for me.
you weren’t asked to pay the current price right? just pointing out the deltas
My 390 engine isn't scheduled to be ready until spring 2026. According to the bankruptcy contract I signed last December, I'll be paying whatever the price is when my engine is ready. They can charge whatever they want. Based on current trends, I'm guessing the final price will be $90,000-$95,000.
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i didn’t realize that, sorry, I had ordered in 2022, so maybe got a different deal I guess.
-135Driver
Member
Please check with Vans before posting stuff like this in 2 different threads and getting all of us wound up who have engines on order. Just because the new order price on the website is changed, doesn’t mean our prices have necessarily. But I haven’t asked Vans yet to confirm this. So please…call Vans and ask…then report results. Thank you!
Uhhh, I'm letting folks know the price on the website increased. You are welcome to call Vans to see if the price they posted on the website is correct.
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When I agreed to the new price for my 540 TB in February, the price listed on Vans website was already way more than the price I agreed to at that time. So, obviously, old orders won't pay what's shown on the website for a new order today.
You probably got the 12% increase. That's what I got.
From the email I got from Vans on January 27th regarding price increases:
$57,400 4/27/24 Original price when I ordered my engine
$64,384 2/1/24 Price I agreed to when I signed new contract (roughly 12% higher than original price)
$69,862 2/1/24 Advertised price on Vans website
$75,139 9/14/24 Current price
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How would vans know what the Lycoming price will be in a year?
Nowhere in the contract does it say you'll pay the current price listed on Vans website when your engine is ready, nor does it say they can charge you whatever they want. What is says is "...prices and specifications are subject to change..."
If Lycoming doesn't charge Van's more for YOUR engine, then the price simply hasn't changed.
You are correct. However, the contract does say Vans can change the price without notice. There is nothing in the contract that prevents them from raising the price for any reason. They can charge you the original price, the current website price or ANY price they want. They don't have to justify it and it doesn't have to be based on Lycoming's price.
The point of my post today was just to point out that Vans increased the price of my engine and since our contracts are open ended, it means my engine may end up costing even more. Of course, Vans can also drop the price of my engine if they want.
I think the contract says only after you have paid in full your finial payment that Vans will not increase the price. I think.........
And my Thunderbolt was scheduled for November and Vans contacted me on 7-2 for finial payment. I told them my contract says 60 days and I was told that they didn't know what my contract said but if I didn't send in my finial payment I would be moved down the list. That's 120 days. I called Chris at Lycoming last week to see if Vans had sent them my payment and he said that he wasn't in charge of payments so he didn't know but Vans was pretty good about sending in the payment. I was also told that my engine is now scheduled for December now for lack of sumps. I ordered February of 2022. If it does happen in December that will mean my finial payment was 180 days not 60.
Did your price change at all from the bankruptcy renegotiated price in Jan/Feb?
Obviously no one does apparently. The point of my post was that if we “lock” in a price with a 25% deposit then that is the price we should get and be responsible for. The current website seems to state that what you “lock in” is what you pay but our bankruptcy re contract seems to state that the price we will be responsible for will fluctuate.
No. I think if I had not sent the final payment early it would have gone up. I think they were doing me a favor by asking for finial payment before the price increase.
Curious who notified you and were you given any advance notice? I was told I was scheduled for September but have been unable to get any response from anyone at Vans - seems like the Chapter 11 all over again.
BigBadBob
Active Member
I got an email notification from Van's. I now have the engine. I had called a couple of weeks earlier and Anne (from Kit Sales) told me the engine was ready to ship.
schehl614d
I'm New Here
Have RV12 builders been getting engine kit deliveries in a timely fashion? Want to put order in but don't want the 35% deposit just sitting there for a year.
bshawco
Active Member
My engine power plant kit has had a status of "Assigned To Crating" since mid-summer 2024 with an estimated crating date of 8/15/24 - 10/14/24. To date, I've received no further updates, and the status remains the same. I don't know if they're holding it for the radiator or some other component. Order was originally placed in December of 2022. The $3k price increase for the revised contract was paid in full when requested.
Just got update and request for final payment. Crating window 10-12-24 to 12-12-24. Had been Feb-April 2025. Ordered Oct 2023 with 3 blade prop and Rotax Care. I assume a bundle of 3rd party parts arrived or are arriving soon.
No, there has been some scuttle about they are holding them due to an issue with redesigned radiator availability. They also appear to be prioritizing the S-LSA orders because they keep pumping them out like crazy.
Unfortunately to get a place in line (although it appears that they don't follow a FIFO order fulfillment process) you will have to send in your deposit and wait with the rest of us. Like you I don't like the risk but in this case it is necessary.
I think it is terrible that we were all promised more accurate and frequent communication from the new leadership at Vans but in reality they have gone almost completely silent.
schehl614d
I'm New Here
Did you get your engine?
bshawco
Active Member
Yes - it finally shipped to my building partner about a week ago and was received. I believe the radiator was back-ordered.
Hi,
At Van’s request, I made the final payment for my TB - IO-540 in July 2024 and was told Lycoming would start the build in late August. Labor Day came and went, and I was told by Van’s in September that Lycoming was having trouble sourcing engine sumps , but that Lycoming should have the issue resolved in October. In late October I received a call from Chris Gayman to finalize some build details and Chris advised that my engine was “next in line”, and that it should ship by Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving came and went, and I was advised by Anne at Van’s in early December that Lycoming was trying to resolve a problem with “ignition noise” (my IO-540 has dual eMacs), but that they “were close” to solving. Now December 20, and still have heard nothing from Lycoming.
I am beyond frustrated and wish I had ordered an engine from Barrett.
Yeah -same boat - Vans and/or Lycoming had me slated for a Dec delivery and I haven't been able to get an update from them. I don't think it's anyones fault per se - supply chain issues and labor issues are the problem. And this is why we ordered Thunderbolts - for greater attention to detail to make sure when it's shipped to us we have a brand new, top of the line, carefully-built engine. Sumps were the problem. Ignition problems are new. I don't blame Chris for not wanting to engage. Lots of folks in the line up I am sure. Better comm could be forthcoming tho.
I suspect the other engine builders are having the same issue sourcing parts.
Aerosport gave me a flat “nope” when I tried to get a quote for a 390. Lycon seemed positive initially, but are not answering emails now. Barrett have been the best so far, answering emails until a few weeks ago, but told me there was *one* engine core which they *maybe* able to get. Not looking positive for a build from anyone other than lycoming tbh. If I don’t get a commitment from Rhonda by the start of the new year I’ll sadly have to send my money to “big engines” and wait a couple of years, then end up with a stock engine I have to modify myself (EFII).
