Van's Air Force
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Business Announcement From Van's Founder Dick Vangrunsven
- Thread starter CubedRoot
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Carl Froehlich
Well Known Member
Amadeus
Well Known Member
Perhaps Van's could "go public."
There is already an interim CEO and complete C-suite change in store so why not have an Initial Public Offering. In the midst of a cash-flow emergency isn't the typical situation Wall Street would want to entertain but those of us with the Van's Smile would gladly invest.
Short of this unlikely event I can assure you that I, for one, am willing to make a donation via GiveButter, GoFundMe, PayPal, etc. to get the propeller turning again.
BUSINESS ANNOUNCEMENT FROM VAN’S FOUNDER DICK VANGRUNSVEN
I've already invested so much in my RV-9A over many years, that if I have to invest a few bucks more to ensure I'll always be able to buy parts for my plane, then I'm more than willing.
Not sure of the best way to do this:
1. Cash/cheque sent directly to Van (who seemingly has re-invested all his savings back into the company he founded).
2. Buy stock in the company (I know it's privately owned by the employees and founder).
3. Set up a trust.
But I'm also VERY concerned about the man who has just been named as interim CEO. I surely don't want the company sold to the Chinese like Glasair and Continental.
I've already invested so much in my RV-9A over many years, that if I have to invest a few bucks more to ensure I'll always be able to buy parts for my plane, then I'm more than willing.
Not sure of the best way to do this:
1. Cash/cheque sent directly to Van (who seemingly has re-invested all his savings back into the company he founded).
2. Buy stock in the company (I know it's privately owned by the employees and founder).
3. Set up a trust.
But I'm also VERY concerned about the man who has just been named as interim CEO. I surely don't want the company sold to the Chinese like Glasair and Continental.
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
Yep. A good business badly hurt by two major supplier issues. Those issues were linked by the need to quickly remake QB kits after the primer issue. That ultimately led to the LCP issue when they went down that path for production ramp-up. Add in the cost of bad inventory, the apparent lack of recourse against the failed suppliers, a bunch of new equipment, and the expense of developing the -15 and the cash flow shortage is no surprise. They probably had a handle on it before the LCP’s went sideways.
There’s too much opportunity out there for the business to go away, but someone’s gonna feel a lot of pain in the meantime.
I feel bad for everyone involved.
georgemohr
Well Known Member
I'm sure it's been a seriously unlivable experience the past two years for Vans folks. We all have a huge stake in seeing them pull thorough, and I believe they will.
Not so sure. That's what the Van's website says:
"...we were selling kits below our cost."
So by their own admission they were not able to do what based on above quote anyone can do.
At this point they have a substantial backlog of kits sold which if deliver will generate additional losses.
Oliver
robschoening
I'm New Here
I did not understand why Van’s shipped a partial empennage kit in August with so many key pieces on backorder. But now it makes sense. They needed the cash.
This is unfortunate for the employees. They have the most to lose.
A new management team should be able to right this ship. Hopefully they can think of some creative ways to avoid bankruptcy or becoming saddled with too much new debt. I’m sure many customers would be willing to finance working capital at below market rates (pre-pay, etc.) as long as there is confidence in management and a solid operating plan.
Good luck to all. Great product.
This is unfortunate for the employees. They have the most to lose.
A new management team should be able to right this ship. Hopefully they can think of some creative ways to avoid bankruptcy or becoming saddled with too much new debt. I’m sure many customers would be willing to finance working capital at below market rates (pre-pay, etc.) as long as there is confidence in management and a solid operating plan.
Good luck to all. Great product.
That's me, minus the "strong" adjective. This is primarily why, personally, I would not put my money forward; I don't understand finance and I feel fortunate to be able to cling to what I have.
Someone said they should get rid of QB kits because of quality problems. That's not my experience. My QB wings, which include tanks, and fuse have given me 17 years of problem-free service. Perhaps in recent times that part of the business has slid. Evidence of a wider problem?
Some of us go back at least to 1987.
Agree that the company has been rock solid and will continue into the future the same way.
Some of us that are retired and do some stock investing would buy Van's Aircraft stock if it went public.
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
YEP!......
scsmith
Well Known Member
Me too!
I wonder if there would be a way to sell equity shares? Bonds? Some kind of investment instrument that would have a long maturity period but the potential for long-term return to make it very attractive, but provide an influx of capital?
PilotjohnS
Well Known Member
Curious
I am just curious if the QB kits were ever profitable. In my mind, the lead time of the QB kits seems ti tie up lots of capital for long time. So I think slow build will be the only way to get out of this mess. Fast turn inventory and all that. JMHO
I am just curious if the QB kits were ever profitable. In my mind, the lead time of the QB kits seems ti tie up lots of capital for long time. So I think slow build will be the only way to get out of this mess. Fast turn inventory and all that. JMHO
H-E-double-hockey-sticks yes, sign me up too! Like gumbo, that investment may take time to simmer but I believe it'd pay off quite well for the company's recovery AND this investor.
KatanaPilot
Well Known Member
My bet for most likely White Knight is John Torode.
I placed RV-14 orders for everything including engine and prop on March 30. Just got my empanage kit and am just about to start riveting on the vertical stab. My guess is my build is just going to take a little longer than I thought but I gave myself 5 years to build it and I'm thinking I can still make that target.
I'm not too worried. Vans will survive. There's just no kit out there that can compare. With 11,000 airplanes flying there's a good spare parts business and the 15 is going create a lot of new business. So what if Van's gets bought by outside investors, even the Chinese? That hasn't killed Cirrus or Continental. In fact, the huge cash infusion to both has been a net positive IMO.
The new CEO sounds like just the guy for the job.
I'm not too worried. Vans will survive. There's just no kit out there that can compare. With 11,000 airplanes flying there's a good spare parts business and the 15 is going create a lot of new business. So what if Van's gets bought by outside investors, even the Chinese? That hasn't killed Cirrus or Continental. In fact, the huge cash infusion to both has been a net positive IMO.
The new CEO sounds like just the guy for the job.
LettersFromFlyoverCountry
Well Known Member
I suspect the team of advisors are bankruptcy experts, especially given the no refunds and no shipping of parts etc. It seems like a company in need of protection from creditors and I guess that's good. It make me kind of sad that Van and his wife are burning through cash to keep it afloat.
I don't think the company goes under. I think they reorganize. But it's going to cost of lot of people their jobs and the price of kits is going to go way up.
Fortunately, I've got all the parts I need and should be able to get the RV-12iS done with a minimum of hassle but I do feel bad for those people just getting started.
I suspect they may have to retrench - maybe put the RV-15 project in mothballs -- and try to make it with the popular kits they've already.
we'll see.
The closest thing I remember to this is Stoddard Hamilton, which went bankrupt not long after introducing the Glastar. Eventually all the various licensing deals were unwound, a buyer was found for each model and the plane's are stil around. Stoddard Hamilton is gone.
I don't think the company goes under. I think they reorganize. But it's going to cost of lot of people their jobs and the price of kits is going to go way up.
Fortunately, I've got all the parts I need and should be able to get the RV-12iS done with a minimum of hassle but I do feel bad for those people just getting started.
I suspect they may have to retrench - maybe put the RV-15 project in mothballs -- and try to make it with the popular kits they've already.
we'll see.
The closest thing I remember to this is Stoddard Hamilton, which went bankrupt not long after introducing the Glastar. Eventually all the various licensing deals were unwound, a buyer was found for each model and the plane's are stil around. Stoddard Hamilton is gone.
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I echo your thoughts, Bob, and thank you for those. It’s a terribly frustrating and tough situation for everyone.
I’d like to build a -15 someday, so if they offer a tail kit I’m in. This will all hurt, and it may be a somewhat different hobby in a year. We’ll see.
As someone trying to run a 1-person company (this site) in a volatile world, I can confirm this is a lousy time to be fighting tooth and nail to stay afloat. Sending my very best to my friends in the PNW and all those hurting from this.
Kindest,
Doug (your host here)
PS: Just in the door from 1 of my 2 part time jobs that I do on the side. Off to bed now and part time job #2 in the morning. Like I said, 2023 is a very challenging time to be running a business.
*Posting rules are being applied here, so please respect that. Please remember you’re in my living room. Observe the house rules, and thank you in advance.
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Vans store
I put in an order in the store this morning. It was in stock. Got an email stating it was shipped,and this was after the announcement. If I recall, vans is inventory rich and cash poor. I would guess that if orders were sent in to them for items in stocks, they will still ship it. The order now says usps has the iitem.
Now if they put in a "gift certificate" where you can get it and not use it for a year, then after a year it would be say 5% more, they could get an influx of cash that they would need to get through this.
I put in an order in the store this morning. It was in stock. Got an email stating it was shipped,and this was after the announcement. If I recall, vans is inventory rich and cash poor. I would guess that if orders were sent in to them for items in stocks, they will still ship it. The order now says usps has the iitem.
Now if they put in a "gift certificate" where you can get it and not use it for a year, then after a year it would be say 5% more, they could get an influx of cash that they would need to get through this.
+1
Having been involved in "turnarounds" where a solid organizations were being written off by some, I FIRMLY believe that solutions will be found.
Sometimes, someone with a different "view" can make a world of difference.
Sometimes, simply some tough short term decisions have to be made.
But when you have great products, great people, great customers and great suppliers, there are solutions (yes plural) out there.
I am confident that Van's will find them and be back on track sooner than most believe.
In their corner like most, cheering them on!
Having been involved in "turnarounds" where a solid organizations were being written off by some, I FIRMLY believe that solutions will be found.
Sometimes, someone with a different "view" can make a world of difference.
Sometimes, simply some tough short term decisions have to be made.
But when you have great products, great people, great customers and great suppliers, there are solutions (yes plural) out there.
I am confident that Van's will find them and be back on track sooner than most believe.
In their corner like most, cheering them on!
A buddy and I went up in my 7 this afternoon. It was only after that I learned about the troubles they are in.
We were already talking about donations, or stock so I am glad to see others feel the same way. Maybe sell some preferred shares at a higher price. I'd also like the VOPA and will happily pay to be part of that too. $500/$1K lifetime membership? Proceeds to Vans
My plane is done, but I want everyone to have the opportunity to enjoy them as much as those of us with flying planes do. I'd also like to build a 12, and a 15 when they come out.
Like Doug said- I'll put money down on a 15 emp today, full well knowing that I may lose that money.
We were already talking about donations, or stock so I am glad to see others feel the same way. Maybe sell some preferred shares at a higher price. I'd also like the VOPA and will happily pay to be part of that too. $500/$1K lifetime membership? Proceeds to Vans
My plane is done, but I want everyone to have the opportunity to enjoy them as much as those of us with flying planes do. I'd also like to build a 12, and a 15 when they come out.
Like Doug said- I'll put money down on a 15 emp today, full well knowing that I may lose that money.
Tankerpilot75
Well Known Member
A possible solution might be to take the company public and issue stock through an initial public offering (IPO). I’m sure these “experts” they’ve hired will look at this. Goodness knows there is a significant number of Vans owners out here that a ready market for their stock exists.
Opps! I see someone else suggested this earlier. Just goes to show that raising additional cash through this method is not a bad idea!
Opps! I see someone else suggested this earlier. Just goes to show that raising additional cash through this method is not a bad idea!
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I hope you are right but I am not as optimistic.
A big source of cash is new kit deposits and kit deliveries.
Going public at this time stops all that cash flow in its tracks.
rocketman1988
Well Known Member
15
I’ll put money on the 15 right now
I’ll put money on the 15 right now
I've been worried about this for a while now. With over a thousand customers affected by the laser-cut fiasco, this was inevitable.
Take me, for example. I was about to drop $20-$25k on the final fuselage payment in December, but now I have stopped building since July, and I have no ETA when I will be able to continue building. Once I continue building, I'll need to start over on the rudder, VS, and elevators.
In other words, 98% of the revenue I was going to give to Van's over the next 12 months has been deferred at least 12 months. I'm sure I'm not the only one stuck on my build and therefore NOT buying kits.
Take me, for example. I was about to drop $20-$25k on the final fuselage payment in December, but now I have stopped building since July, and I have no ETA when I will be able to continue building. Once I continue building, I'll need to start over on the rudder, VS, and elevators.
In other words, 98% of the revenue I was going to give to Van's over the next 12 months has been deferred at least 12 months. I'm sure I'm not the only one stuck on my build and therefore NOT buying kits.
Reading the LCP parts thread I saw many posting that they wanted vans to track every single part to it's source so that we can absolutely know who made what part and what structure it found its home in.
This sounds like peeps want certified level of tracking and QC, but forget they are paying 1/10th certified prices.
Given that the demand is so high, and the fact that people want much closer to certified manufacturing pipeline, I suspect bkthomps is right. The answer for vans is to raise the prices at least 50% try to get some cash flow going, deal with the LCP problem, then go back to building airplanes, but this time with the margin to deal with mistakes.
One other thing on the LCP issue. I've got a wing kit in the garage with lots of LCPs in it, and slow build fuselage on order. I would be happy to finish paying for the next kit, work on it while waiting for a solution on my wing kit and come back to it later. I'm stuck until I can get parts to work on but I don't have to receive the replacements first, just the next kit.
IPOs are not the banking vehicle used to rescue a troubled businesses.
The accounting, banking and legal costs are likely more this business is worth and you need the time to organize it for the SEC
December is just around the corner.
This is so much more uncertain now.
I would worry that sending large sums of money would not get a me to completed plane.
I would be waiting for the details of the new business.
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MIKE JG
Well Known Member
KitPlanes article says the number of customers affected is 1800…. First time I’ve seen a number attached to this LCP issue. That’s even more than I had thought. Unfortunately I’m one of the 1800. I’m dead in the water right now unsure when I’ll be able to get going again.
Brantel
Well Known Member
I am one of the 1800 with about $15 worth of parts on the line.
My point is…out of the 1800, how many are major vs minor like me?
Is that as simple as setting up a GoFundMe page and putting out the word?
RV8JD
Well Known Member
Didn't work out too well for Glasair:
"Dear Customer,
Our parent company Jilin Hanxing Group has made the tough decision to move the Sportsman production to China. Glasair Aviation USA, will be delivering existing kit orders and no longer taking new kit orders during this transition. Parts orders placed prior to 7/31/23 for items in stock will be shipped from our Arlington facility. Parts orders placed after 7/31/23 will be shipped from our facility in Zhenjiang, Jiangsu province, China once it is up and running. We will continue offering technical support services from the U.S. via email from [email protected]. Customer files will stay in the U.S. allowing us to continue offering original bill of sales.
Thank you,
Ran Fang"
And the new CEO of Van's is the one who arranged the sale of Glasair to the Chinese.Our parent company Jilin Hanxing Group has made the tough decision to move the Sportsman production to China. Glasair Aviation USA, will be delivering existing kit orders and no longer taking new kit orders during this transition. Parts orders placed prior to 7/31/23 for items in stock will be shipped from our Arlington facility. Parts orders placed after 7/31/23 will be shipped from our facility in Zhenjiang, Jiangsu province, China once it is up and running. We will continue offering technical support services from the U.S. via email from [email protected]. Customer files will stay in the U.S. allowing us to continue offering original bill of sales.
Thank you,
Ran Fang"
I'm based at KAWO where Glasair is located. The facility is pretty much closed down.
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Just some rough numbers for LCP’s. 1800+ customers and some have multiple affected kits (me included). So let’s say 2000 kits. If you assume it will cost Van’s $1000 per kit to fix the issues you are looking at $2M. That could easily be low if you are adding in labor to fix QB kits.
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
IMO Glasair wasn't a viable business by that time.
I think Van's is a viable business, but failed to protect itself from vendor failures and inflation. The inflation issue in particular had to be really bad, since Van's took deposits on a fixed price basis and absorbed all of the cost increases until kits shipped. Think about what a year or 18 months of inflation looked like post-covid and how that gutted profit margins. Never in Van's 40 year history as a major manufacturer did the company experience both long lead times AND significant inflation simultaneously. The business model was extremely vulnerable to that and they didn't react appropriately to it. They needed to tie the final payment to an inflation index so they got paid for the full value of the kit, not yesterday's value.
Draker
Well Known Member
Yes, IPOs are a huge distraction--not something a distressed business wants to get involved in. IPO is something you do at the very top of your game, when your business is worth as much as it ever has been. Good luck to Vans.
get back to basics
I see a lot of good suggestions in these posts and I'll second the idea of abandoning quick build kits as a way to catch up with kit/parts deliveries.
Close down all foreign manufacturing of quick build kits. This move would shake out a lot of overhead, quality control issues and pandemic induced shipping delays along with its exorbitant price increases.
Focus on the experimental builder who was the bread and butter customer that made Vans grow into a profitable company.
I was always impressed and and a bit concerned with Van's very low priced kits, (as compared to others) wondering how they could stay ahead with their very low profit margin. They have also been very generous with their commitment to hold prices for future deliveries at the time payment was made.
To get out of this swamp they'll need to renege on their promise to deliver kits at a loss, perhaps at cost but no less, whatever it may be.
My guess is that a doubling of kit prices may be in order to keep this ship from running aground.
I am confident that they will find a solution but it will be financially painful for a lot of customers and Van's employees alike.
Best of Luck
I see a lot of good suggestions in these posts and I'll second the idea of abandoning quick build kits as a way to catch up with kit/parts deliveries.
Close down all foreign manufacturing of quick build kits. This move would shake out a lot of overhead, quality control issues and pandemic induced shipping delays along with its exorbitant price increases.
Focus on the experimental builder who was the bread and butter customer that made Vans grow into a profitable company.
I was always impressed and and a bit concerned with Van's very low priced kits, (as compared to others) wondering how they could stay ahead with their very low profit margin. They have also been very generous with their commitment to hold prices for future deliveries at the time payment was made.
To get out of this swamp they'll need to renege on their promise to deliver kits at a loss, perhaps at cost but no less, whatever it may be.
My guess is that a doubling of kit prices may be in order to keep this ship from running aground.
I am confident that they will find a solution but it will be financially painful for a lot of customers and Van's employees alike.
Best of Luck
I’m surprised there isn’t some level of recourse for Vans against the suppliers of the QB products that were either 1. assembled wrong 2. primed wrong 3. not cut via a process that was to spec.
Is that one of the reasons overseas production is such a cost savings? Lack of recourse in the case the product doesn’t match specifications?
Is that one of the reasons overseas production is such a cost savings? Lack of recourse in the case the product doesn’t match specifications?
This isn't the type of first post on the forums I thought I would be making.
I ordered an tail kit for an RV-14A at Airventure this year, and was originally told it would be shipped around the Oct-Nov time frame. The laser cut parts fiasco was looming, but I figured the company could work through it.
I got an email in late August pushing my order back to May-Jun 2024. I was disappointed but not surprised, figuring that production had shifted to replacement parts over new kits.
Then two weeks ago I got an email asking for final payment saying that my kit was ready to be crated. Their status page for my kit had changed back to Oct-Nov. I was surprised they pushed me back to the original schedule, and I was a little hesitant to pay given Van's extremely poor communication regarding what was going on with their production process.
I sent the payment in anyway, and now have to face this news. I guess I know why they rescheduled again and were pushing for payment. Probably just a desperate attempt to grab as much cash as possible from morons like myself who were stupid enough to send it. Do they even have a kit ready to send to me, or was this just a desperate attempt to milk customers to stay afloat?
Regardless of what happens in the near future, my short time dealing with Vans as a customer has completely soured me on the company, probably permanently. I don't know what it would take to keep me as a customer at this point - if they stay in business, that is.
The good news, if there is any, is that my payment was via credit card so I might still be able to use a chargeback to get my money back. I'll wait a bit longer to see what happens, but as soon as the opportunity arises I'm out. I'm done, I've lost all interest in even attempting a build from another kit manufacturer at this point.
It's too bad it had to end this way, but at least I can cut my losses without too much damage. I feel for anyone out there who has a lot more time and money invested than me.
I ordered an tail kit for an RV-14A at Airventure this year, and was originally told it would be shipped around the Oct-Nov time frame. The laser cut parts fiasco was looming, but I figured the company could work through it.
I got an email in late August pushing my order back to May-Jun 2024. I was disappointed but not surprised, figuring that production had shifted to replacement parts over new kits.
Then two weeks ago I got an email asking for final payment saying that my kit was ready to be crated. Their status page for my kit had changed back to Oct-Nov. I was surprised they pushed me back to the original schedule, and I was a little hesitant to pay given Van's extremely poor communication regarding what was going on with their production process.
I sent the payment in anyway, and now have to face this news. I guess I know why they rescheduled again and were pushing for payment. Probably just a desperate attempt to grab as much cash as possible from morons like myself who were stupid enough to send it. Do they even have a kit ready to send to me, or was this just a desperate attempt to milk customers to stay afloat?
Regardless of what happens in the near future, my short time dealing with Vans as a customer has completely soured me on the company, probably permanently. I don't know what it would take to keep me as a customer at this point - if they stay in business, that is.
The good news, if there is any, is that my payment was via credit card so I might still be able to use a chargeback to get my money back. I'll wait a bit longer to see what happens, but as soon as the opportunity arises I'm out. I'm done, I've lost all interest in even attempting a build from another kit manufacturer at this point.
It's too bad it had to end this way, but at least I can cut my losses without too much damage. I feel for anyone out there who has a lot more time and money invested than me.
Desert Rat
Well Known Member
Guys- I get that people are surprised, and that there is going to be logistical and financial pain during the recovery, but this isn't the end of the world.
I feel bad for Van himself, effected customers, and most especially for the employees of Vans aircraft. But you know what? Manufacturing companies live in a volatile world, and aerospace companies even more so. There are tons of examples of folks who have weathered this particular storm that we all tend to forget about.
Living in Wichita, I could give you a million examples of how companies fell on their face and ultimately recovered. Heck, at one time, Boeing Wichita (now Spirit) was so in the red that they were building furniture to keep cash coming in. I don't mean airplane galleys, I'm talking about bedroom sets and kitchen tables.
I can't speak to the behind the scenes at Beech, but when I started at Cessna in 1996, one of the guys told me that 10 years or so before that, not only was Friday payday, it was also layoff day. They were going through such rough times that they were laying people off every week, and you didn't know until Friday if you were going to have a job the following Monday.
It was hard for me to understand that at that time considering my first job was working on the Citation XL prototype and the Citation X prototype was in the next hangar over. After living through two layoff cycles and a furlough in the subsequent years I get it now
The point is, Vans is too valuable to just evaporate. They may get an infusion of investment cash, they may restructure their product line or processes, they will almost certainly raise prices, and they may get bought out, just like Cessna and Beech did. But ultimately, they will make changes to the way they do business and we'll drive on.
I feel bad for Van himself, effected customers, and most especially for the employees of Vans aircraft. But you know what? Manufacturing companies live in a volatile world, and aerospace companies even more so. There are tons of examples of folks who have weathered this particular storm that we all tend to forget about.
Living in Wichita, I could give you a million examples of how companies fell on their face and ultimately recovered. Heck, at one time, Boeing Wichita (now Spirit) was so in the red that they were building furniture to keep cash coming in. I don't mean airplane galleys, I'm talking about bedroom sets and kitchen tables.
I can't speak to the behind the scenes at Beech, but when I started at Cessna in 1996, one of the guys told me that 10 years or so before that, not only was Friday payday, it was also layoff day. They were going through such rough times that they were laying people off every week, and you didn't know until Friday if you were going to have a job the following Monday.
It was hard for me to understand that at that time considering my first job was working on the Citation XL prototype and the Citation X prototype was in the next hangar over. After living through two layoff cycles and a furlough in the subsequent years I get it now
The point is, Vans is too valuable to just evaporate. They may get an infusion of investment cash, they may restructure their product line or processes, they will almost certainly raise prices, and they may get bought out, just like Cessna and Beech did. But ultimately, they will make changes to the way they do business and we'll drive on.
gmcjetpilot
Well Known Member
Aviation is a tough business. Many big kit makers, Glasair, Lancair, for example ruled for decades, are really not around at least in the capacity they once were.
Zenith Air and Van's were or are main stays. I am sure Van's will survive, just what does it mean going forward. Kind of broke my heart he has to pay out of pocket to keep the doors open. HOWEVER I was relieved it was not a health issue with Van.
Van's has been around 50 yrs and built a great reputation. That is amazing. I always admire what a great value the kits were and still are.
I got involved with Van's in late 1980's when the RV6 came out, when he was still small, all kits came out of his shop on his private grass strip. T Now they are in a large facility with a large staff. I always wondered how they could afford engineering, shipping, manufacturing and still charge so little. Everything in the past was van doing all engineering, and handful of people fabricating parts and putting kits together to ship.
The RV15 may have put a strain on their financials in development.
Laser cut parts is an issue to financial status. This was mentioned in the video. No doubt a liability for them.
The supply chain is another, issue, cost of shipping, inflation in general hurts everyone. People can not afford to build a plane. Engine, Prop, Inst all have gone way up, much less $5.50/gal, $300/mo hangers, insurance... I know Van resisted raising prices.
Van mentioned refunds? Not sure what that means. As far as having a partial kit and getting the rest of the kit to finish, I don't know. It sounds like they will down size and lay people off, try and fill orders.
An RV8 on my field went off the runway and hit fence, damaged one wing. They ordered parts for rebuild long ago, I think they are still waiting. Looks like that wait will be longer.
Zenith Air and Van's were or are main stays. I am sure Van's will survive, just what does it mean going forward. Kind of broke my heart he has to pay out of pocket to keep the doors open. HOWEVER I was relieved it was not a health issue with Van.
Van's has been around 50 yrs and built a great reputation. That is amazing. I always admire what a great value the kits were and still are.
I got involved with Van's in late 1980's when the RV6 came out, when he was still small, all kits came out of his shop on his private grass strip. T Now they are in a large facility with a large staff. I always wondered how they could afford engineering, shipping, manufacturing and still charge so little. Everything in the past was van doing all engineering, and handful of people fabricating parts and putting kits together to ship.
The RV15 may have put a strain on their financials in development.
Laser cut parts is an issue to financial status. This was mentioned in the video. No doubt a liability for them.
The supply chain is another, issue, cost of shipping, inflation in general hurts everyone. People can not afford to build a plane. Engine, Prop, Inst all have gone way up, much less $5.50/gal, $300/mo hangers, insurance... I know Van resisted raising prices.
Van mentioned refunds? Not sure what that means. As far as having a partial kit and getting the rest of the kit to finish, I don't know. It sounds like they will down size and lay people off, try and fill orders.
An RV8 on my field went off the runway and hit fence, damaged one wing. They ordered parts for rebuild long ago, I think they are still waiting. Looks like that wait will be longer.
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Van's
The cost of doing business has really shot up. Is Oregon a very good state to be in business. California sucks. Everything has gone up. I really hate to see Van's aircraft go away. Maybe instead of a deposit you should pay for it upfront. That is how I bought my kit.
The cost of doing business has really shot up. Is Oregon a very good state to be in business. California sucks. Everything has gone up. I really hate to see Van's aircraft go away. Maybe instead of a deposit you should pay for it upfront. That is how I bought my kit.
Just spent some time talking Vans with a friend who works for one of the big accounting firms in corporate finance. I asked him to watch the video and read the statement. He helped reassure me and had some insight to what Vans might be doing. At his firm they have a Rapid Business Improvement team . How it works, is the business basically shuts down for a few weeks, they come in, evaluate all aspects and tell you what is wrong and HOW to fix it quickly. He said this is very common when “ good businesses “ mismanage a crisis and get into cash flow issues because of it. He felt this is probably the correct move to stop the bleeding, adjust, and keep the company solvent. They had to help many companies that handled pandemic problems wrong. Anyhow, feeling more encouraged about the future. . 
This is encouraging to hear. I'm on the sidelines but have been considering a 12is build sometime in the near future. Knowing the business as a builder during the peak of Van's success - the quality of the products, the people in key departments, the quality of the engineering and documentation, and the quality of the support during that time - it would be sad to see the business fail or be forced to resort to drastic measures.
Especially when faced with challenges like LCP, we tend to view companies like Van's as monolithic blocks with resources to respond how we'd like/expect a company with deep pockets would (think McNeil responding to the Tylenol crisis). But this event exposes the simple truth that with Van's we're dealing with a group of people / a private company with finite resources: many (most?) of the owner-employees are builders/enthusiasts like us - well meaning and dedicated - and there isn't a deep well of cash reserves/shareholders/credit lines etc. I remain hopeful that the core values are maintained while building a solid, properly funded business that will endure. The ongoing deep involvement and personal support from the great Richard VanGrunsven himself is in itself evidence that this may well be part of the "new" business.
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Staunch111
Well Known Member
Why did Vans not have someone physically inspect LCP, or undertake random inspections?
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