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Oxygen

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RViator60

Well Known Member
Has anyone experience using oxygen in their RV-14? What equipment do they use and how is it mounted? I'm planning on flying over the Rockies this summer and expect I'll need to have it along.
 
RViator60 said:
Has anyone experience using oxygen in their RV-14? What equipment do they use and how is it mounted? I'm planning on flying over the Rockies this summer and expect I'll need to have it along.
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I bought an Inogen One G5 "used" and it's awesome. It concentrates the oxygen that's there, so no need for anything complex outside the unit itself. Runs on battery and 12V. Multiple levels of o2 output. I use it for flights over the alps along with a little oximeter on my finger. The G5 keeps me at 99%.

This is a consumer-grade device, and is meant to be carried everywhere. It's not that light, but light enough, and it's rugged and easy to use.

I have not yet tested it with two cannulas, and I don't know if that is a use case that it's designed for, so if you need two, might not be the right solution for you.

PS: not sure if this is an RV-14 specific question, so I took the liberty of answering even though I fly an RV-8. :)
 
rv8ch said:
I bought an Inogen One G5 "used" and it's awesome. It concentrates the oxygen that's there, so no need for anything complex outside the unit itself. Runs on battery and 12V. Multiple levels of o2 output. I use it for flights over the alps along with a little oximeter on my finger. The G5 keeps me at 99%.

This is a consumer-grade device, and is meant to be carried everywhere. It's not that light, but light enough, and it's rugged and easy to use.

I have not yet tested it with two cannulas, and I don't know if that is a use case that it's designed for, so if you need two, might not be the right solution for you.

PS: not sure if this is an RV-14 specific question, so I took the liberty of answering even though I fly an RV-8. :)
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It is a pulse demand type system, so you cannot put a Y on it for two people. They do make an aviation version with two outputs, but doesn't seem to be a market fotr the lower cost reman units or craigslist finds.

Larry
 
Hi Mickey, that's interesting, I hadn't thought of that option. After a little research, none of the POC suppliers rates their product over 10,000 ft, but your results suggest that it should work. The only high altitude study I could find (https://doi.org/10.7205/MILMED-D-15-00130) didn't test the Inogen, but similar devices all worked at higher altitude, as long as they were protected from deep freezing (a concern for military applications). Thanks for you response!
 
Easy Pulse 5 with m5 medical Tanks. Works amazing and less than $100 for the complete setup. I have it mounted in a fire extinguisher bracket on the backside of the flap motor tunnel.
 
Has anyone found a pulse oximeter that works in a bright cockpit? The two I have tried are washed out in sunlight and read falsely low.
 
Inogen G5

Tom Laux at Windblade (now out of the Inogen business against their will) supplies dual cannulas for using the G5 with two people and says there is no problem with that. It's what I plan to do.

Good to FL 180 for one user, FL 140 with two. Inexhaustible O2 supply if fed with electrons. FAA does not allow nasal cannulas above 18k anyways.

Here's the latest I heard back from him after he told me Inogen wasn't partnering with them any longer.
Hello Bill,

As you know…

A properly configured Inogen G5-1260 Oxygen Concentrator will support two (2) people up to 14k’ and single person (1) up to 18k’.
FAA does not allow use of nasal cannulas above 18k’
With a G5, two people will be saturated using the dual-cannula configuration up to 14k’.
The G5-1260 is FAA compliant for operating in aircraft, ensuring a continuous path and support for using (configuring) the Inogen G5 for oxygen aviation use.

The baseline G5 Inogen kit for aviation should include:
· BA-500 G5 Base Unit (concentrator)
· CA-500 carrying bag
· BA-501 Power Supply
· BA-306 DC-DC cable
Note: the DC-DC cable is for 12V automotive use and was not designed for aviation grade (i.e., might be noisy with EMC, etc.)
· RP-404 (output filter kit)
· BA-500 8-cell battery or optional BA-516 16-cell battery

When your Inogen G5 unit is delivered (new or refurbished in your case)
· Insert the battery, charge it fully using AC power
· Start the G5, and, when it is running, press and hold the “mode” button (bell symbol) for 5 seconds.
· This will give show the hour meter, the serial number, and the software firmware version.
· The firmware should be version 1.4 or later.
· This should indicate if you can use “as is” for general aviation without updating.

For the Inogen Aviator Interface Kit, clients order directly from Windblade (us) with a cost of $285.00 plus shipping (and, if in California, plus sales tax) for the kit.
· We use PayPal, credit card or wire transfer.
· Contained in the Inogen Aviator Interface Kit are
Aviation compliant autosensing 9 to 30V Aviation specific DC – DC converter with cigarette lighter interface
Aviation compliant single cannula set up
Aviation compliant dual cannula set up
Spares kit
Payment via paypal.me/Windblade

For the Cannula Kit ONLY,
Aviation compliant single cannula
Aviation compliant dual cannula
Spares kit
Cost is $95.00 plus shipping.
Again, if this works for you, then we do a transaction via paypal.me/Windblade

Best regards,
Tom
 
Aerox and Mountain High

I surprised the neither of these two systems has not been mentioned. I have and Aerox system for my 7A. I only use it occasionally. The tank is mounted using two metal clamps in the baggage compartment, behind the passenger seat. I mounted one clamp to the outboard flap access cover and I installed another cover plate with a bracket above the flap cover plate. I only attach the O2 line when I use the system.

I am thinking about installing the MH O2D2 system. I would keep the tank in the same spot and route the O2 line under the longeron and behind the panel. My brother did this in his 7A and put the control head under the Throttle/Prop/Mix bracket.

In my opinion, the MH system is better if you use O2 on a regular basis.
 
Nothing is one-size-fits-all

There are multiple considerations in play here: weight, cost, useful limits, convenience. The pressurized O2 systems can get rather bulky, heavy and must be refilled, sometimes away from home. I have experienced this PITA and it's not to be dismissed lightly. They do work well for multiple users and to higher altitudes.

The concentrators will only serve two persons max and are a considerable investment, even on the used market. That said, once your O2 is inexhaustible and free, you will use it more liberally when indications are marginal without concern for draining the tank.

I bought the Inogen for use in the office to replace a collection of tanks we had that were out of hydro test date (another thing the Inogen never requires). It's a tax deductible item for a physician practice, and I knew it would be useful in the RV, as well as nice to have on hand at home in case of SARS CoV2, as I was determined not to let any loved ones end up in hospital. This proved prescient.

All of our mileages will vary here. I've sold my Mountain High gear and look forward to using the concentrator very often - for comfort as well as regulatory compliance.
 
Hi Mickey, can you tell me what setting you use on your G5 and cruising altitude to reach 99% saturation. Thanks.
 
Got my Inogen G5 off Market place for $450.00 With an extra high capacity battery and carrying case. It only had 121 hours on it.
That us way cheaper than dealing with bottles and hydro testing and fills and need I go on.
Good deal, But it was just before Covid.
Deals are out there, But, you have to be looking for them.
Do your research and know what you are looking for and check the usage and software.
I wasn't even looking, just stumbled on to it.
Your luck may vary.
Art
 
mbell said:
Have you tried the Anti-Splat one in the cockpit? My experience with under-$40 pulsox is they don't work except indoors.
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We use a couple of them (not Anti-Splat, just the under-$40 ones….) in our cockpits and they work just fine. Verified against expected values with and without supplemental O2, at altitude, and at Sea level.
 
RViator60 said:
Hi Mickey, can you tell me what setting you use on your G5 and cruising altitude to reach 99% saturation. Thanks.
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Hi Marty, I run it on 4 if I'm going to fly around 8500-9500, and if I need to go up to 14,500 when crossing the alps in "airliner mode" as Dan calls it, I bump it up to 6. I probably should just leave it on 6 all the time - I don't really see a huge difference, and I doubt the few hours a month I use it is going to "use up" the device. From what I have read, it's made for heavy usage by someone who needs supplemental oxygen all the time.
 
Bill Boyd said:
Tom Laux at Windblade (now out of the Inogen business against their will) supplies dual cannulas for using the G5 with two people and says there is no problem with that. It's what I plan to do.

Good to FL 180 for one user, FL 140 with two. Inexhaustible O2 supply if fed with electrons. FAA does not allow nasal cannulas above 18k anyways.

Here's the latest I heard back from him after he told me Inogen wasn't partnering with them any longer.
...
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Thanks Bill. I bought some medical style cannulas and planned to Y two to the G5 to see how it works. Nice to hear that Tom does not see an issue with it. The Inogen is very intelligent - the slightest low pressure from inhaling nasally causes it to puff out some o2. No idea if everyone just gets two puffs, or if we need to synchronize our breathing, or something else. Once I get the little lady in the back of the RV-8 with a pulse oxymeter I'll report my results.
 
I've use a [cheap] Easy Pulse regulator on Y-connector, #3 setting, up to 17,500 with my wife and I. It seems to provide enough O2. Whichever of us triggers the pulse doesn't seem to matter. I have been through A.F. altitude-chamber training so I look for the blue fingernails and mental confusion. It is not more than normal. :-)

I fill my O2 cylinder from a large welding bottle.
 
I have yet to install mine in the RV. Not sure how accessible it will be on the back seat floor... My plan is to leave it set on 6, and let 'er rip. Without the cannulas in position on our faces, there should be no demand on the unit to blip out a pulse of oxygen, hence (I hope) no exhaustion of the zeolite columns. I do have a ready accessible toggle controlling power to a cigar lighter socket that I will plug the Inogen into. I need to experiment with the unit to see what kind of control that will offer from the pilot seat.
 
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I did some 'back of the envelope' estimates for the ability of the Inogen One G5 to maintain 10,000 ft equivalent O2 saturation levels at FL140 and FL160 for an average adult male. Without going into the gory details here, (happy to share on request), a minimum setting of 3 is required (120% of required O2) at FL140 and a setting of 5 at FL160 (127% of required O2). There are some big assumptions made, such as the efficiency of zeolites under reduced O2 partial pressure, but the estimate is not too far off what has been reported in this thread by a current user flying his RV in 'airliner mode' over the Alps. This simple model would support the claim reported in this thread that the Inogen G5 could support two adult males at FL140 (119% of required O2), but not at FL160 (76% of required O2). The one concern might be the operation of the inspiration sensor for two people since breathing with be asynchronous. In this case, one would need to operate at a setting of 5 or 6 at FL140 to ensure there was sufficient O2 when respiration is simultaneous. In my own case, where I plan to operate for a short time at FL160 on instrument routes over the Rockies with my wife along in our new RV-14A, unfortunately I don't believe the Inogen One G5 will work for us. I will be interested to learn if anyone else has more practical experience at mid flight levels with two people using the Inogen One G5. It's great technology and certainly would work if a dedicated unit is supplied for each passenger, with the added benefit of redundancy. However, in my limited search, the current demand and prices are high, even for a used unit.
 
RViator60 said:
I did some 'back of the envelope' estimates for the ability of the Inogen One G5 to maintain 10,000 ft equivalent O2 saturation levels at FL140 and FL160 for an average adult male. Without going into the gory details here, (happy to share on request), a minimum setting of 3 is required (120% of required O2) at FL140 and a setting of 5 at FL160 (127% of required O2). There are some big assumptions made, such as the efficiency of zeolites under reduced O2 partial pressure, but the estimate is not too far off what has been reported in this thread by a current user flying his RV in 'airliner mode' over the Alps. This simple model would support the claim reported in this thread that the Inogen G5 could support two adult males at FL140 (119% of required O2), but not at FL160 (76% of required O2). The one concern might be the operation of the inspiration sensor for two people since breathing with be asynchronous. In this case, one would need to operate at a setting of 5 or 6 at FL140 to ensure there was sufficient O2 when respiration is simultaneous. In my own case, where I plan to operate for a short time at FL160 on instrument routes over the Rockies with my wife along in our new RV-14A, unfortunately I don't believe the Inogen One G5 will work for us. I will be interested to learn if anyone else has more practical experience at mid flight levels with two people using the Inogen One G5. It's great technology and certainly would work if a dedicated unit is supplied for each passenger, with the added benefit of redundancy. However, in my limited search, the current demand and prices are high, even for a used unit.
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We actually tested the Imogene for the magazine about eight years ago, and found that they worked great for one person up to 18,000, you really needed two of them if you were going to try and support two people. (Sorry, I don’t have the numbers handy, but we tested using pulse oximeters to verify good saturation.)

What I really liked about them was the fact that you weren’t worried about running out of O2, so you could use it from takeoff to landing, and stay sharp - but operationally, you sort of needed it right there next to you, and that was problematic in either the side-by-side or the tandems - and a real problem in a single-seater, because there was not place to put it in order to control it.

In the end, when we did a cost analysis versus tanked O2, it just didn’t make sense unless you were flying at altitude multiple times a week all year long - buying O2 in bottles was cheaper. But the Inogen was a LOT cooler….. :)
 
Paul, was it a G5 Inogen back then? I think there have been interval improvements. I'm inclined to believe Windblade's performance claims are on a sound basis, but I will admit there is always a confirmation bias once one has plunked down his cash.

-Bill
 
Bill Boyd said:
Paul, was it a G5 Inogen back then? I think there have been interval improvements. I'm inclined to believe Windblade's performance claims are on a sound basis, but I will admit there is always a confirmation bias once one has plunked down his cash.

-Bill
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Bill, Thanks for posting an update on your 10 install.
Here is the Kit Plane Article https://www.kitplanes.com/product-review-inogen-aviator/ The testing was done on an Inogen Aviator. I ASSUME it is a G4 since it only has settings 1-5 vs 1-6 for the G5. I don't think the G5 was available in 2010 when the article was writen. Also, here is an Aviation Consumer article on the Inogen Concentrator from 2017 and updated in 2019 (don't know what was updated) https://www.aviationconsumer.com/industry-news/editorial/o2-concentrators-inogen-aviator-is-tops/
 
Source for G5

I got mine locally on Craigslist for $1100. Have seen them since for as low as $500. I have tested mine with two persons to 16,000ft. My sat remained above 90 and the passenger above 84. I use a simple Y fitting and two super-flexible cannulas. Power is directly from the A/C 14V into the G5 external power jack. No interference observed but I have not yet done an exhaustive EMI evaluation. If that turns out to be an issue, a simple filter should fix it. I fabbed a bracket with strap to attach the bare unit face-up just ahead of the fuel selector in my -6A. Very convenient and easy to see/operate.
I love this system. No tank to refill or keep certified. Plenty of O2 for 2 even at reduced output settings.
 
hijacking an old thread here but curious if anyone has tried the Inogen Rove 6 and if so, what their thoughts were?
 
jroland said:
hijacking an old thread here but curious if anyone has tried the Inogen Rove 6 and if so, what their thoughts were?
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Rove 6 looks almost identical to G5 which i have. Same oxygen output, weight, with some improvements for breath detection and ergonomics. I have taken G5 to 15500 for a 2 hr flight with zero problems. upper 90s on the pulse oximeter at max output. may be will push to 17500 this year.
 
ve0kog said:
Rove 6 looks almost identical to G5 which i have. Same oxygen output, weight, with some improvements for breath detection and ergonomics. I have taken G5 to 15500 for a 2 hr flight with zero problems. upper 90s on the pulse oximeter at max output. may be will push to 17500 this year.
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That's fantastic! hoping to use one for flights over the rockies with 2 people on board
 
also curious where folks have mounted/stored their O2 concentrators in-flight as it looks like access to the control panel is needed to power on/off and change flow rates as needed.
 
jroland said:
also curious where folks have mounted/stored their O2 concentrators in-flight as it looks like access to the control panel is needed to power on/off and change flow rates as needed.
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A buddy of mine has two of them in his Sling.
The one for the front seat is permanently mounted under the seats and is plumbed permanently through his center console with ports for the cannulas. He has opened up the inogen box and wired into the control panel directly to have effectively a remote mount control panel. I’m not sure whether this extends to the flow rates but it has at least on and off.
He got the idea of another Sling builder online. Maybe FB.
 
This is how mine is mounted in my RV-9A:

Not the best photo, but it’s a 3D-Printed cradle that screws to the tunnel in front of the fuel selector valve. Oxygen is routed to the seats via the center console.

It mounts to the tunnel lid via 4 8-32 screws/nut plates that previously held an 845 fire extinguisher bracket, which I relocated to the baggage compartment.
 

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Oh nice - that helps a ton. I am building a custom center console in my 9A and I might just be able to squeeze it in...
 
One thing to add. I bought the Mountain High pulse demand system. The surprise I got was how hard it can be to find someone to fill the cylinder. From my experience, most FBOs don't fill portable cylinders. For more expense, you can get set up to fill them yourself from a larger cylinder, but you should be aware it may not be as easy as you think to obtain a refill from an FBO. I like to use O2 even at lower altitudes because it seems like we feel better when we arrive, but we haven't been able to use it as much as we want because the cylinder is empty.
 
AZRV6A said:
One thing to add. I bought the Mountain High pulse demand system. The surprise I got was how hard it can be to find someone to fill the cylinder. From my experience, most FBOs don't fill portable cylinders. For more expense, you can get set up to fill them yourself from a larger cylinder, but you should be aware it may not be as easy as you think to obtain a refill from an FBO. I like to use O2 even at lower altitudes because it seems like we feel better when we arrive, but we haven't been able to use it as much as we want because the cylinder is empty.
Click to expand...
Yes, and FBO O2 aint cheap!
 
AZRV6A said:
One thing to add. I bought the Mountain High pulse demand system. The surprise I got was how hard it can be to find someone to fill the cylinder. From my experience, most FBOs don't fill portable cylinders. For more expense, you can get set up to fill them yourself from a larger cylinder, but you should be aware it may not be as easy as you think to obtain a refill from an FBO. I like to use O2 even at lower altitudes because it seems like we feel better when we arrive, but we haven't been able to use it as much as we want because the cylinder is empty.
Click to expand...
Try a dive shop that has mixed gases for deep divers. I get my O2 filled for less than $20.
 
RV6-KPTW said:
Also try local welding supply for refills. Much cheaper than FBOs.
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None of the welder supply companies around here will touch my cylinders. They will only exchange it for one of their well used steel ones. No thanks!

What I have done is get a doctor’s prescription for medical oxygen. Dr. Brent Blue writes medical articles for AOPA. He has written several times about using oxygen for flying. He has stated in the past that anyone who needs a prescription for oxygen can send him an email and he will mail you a prescription. That is what I have done. It works well for my needs. The medical supply people do not ask questions and will fill it up for around $20. I am sure they get many people with home oxygen tanks that need filling. I am just one more.
 
lr172 said:
It is a pulse demand type system, so you cannot put a Y on it for two people. They do make an aviation version with two outputs, but doesn't seem to be a market fotr the lower cost reman units or craigslist finds.

Larry
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Larry, my wife and I have used a Y connector with the Innogen concentrator. We wear pulse ox on finger tips. It can work. Not ideal, but works if you monitor the physiology....
 
flightlogic said:
Larry, my wife and I have used a Y connector with the Innogen concentrator. We wear pulse ox on finger tips. It can work. Not ideal, but works if you monitor the physiology....
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Didn't think that would work. Good to know that it actually does.
 
This is what we use in our 14A. Have a short bottle that stays in the plane unless we are travelling over big hills (Rockies, Alaska) then we switch to the larger bottle. A (Y) connector is mounted to the flap motor cover.
 

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1)"D"-sized aluminum cylinder in the baggage compartment of SuzieQ.
2)Where it goes.
3) How it's regulated
 

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