gmcjetpilot
Well Known Member
So I just got done going over the story of a guy who buys a Zenith 750 Cruiser and crashes it on first flight. He and his passenger were OK. The passenger was a more experienced pilot asked to come along by new owner to help fly it back home a few states away. However this Zenith had single controls, so the experienced pilot was along for the ride. The new owner/pilot had experience only in small lower HP fixed gear Cessna and Pipers. He elected to not get transition training or even a familiarity flight. He had gone for rides in one or two other Zeniths as a passenger with different engines, but no actual meaningful experience.
The first flight they did almost no preflight, no W&B and not super familiar with the plane's avionics. They took off down wind a minute or two after start. The takeoff and climb out was normal (there is a video). They elected to return to airport a short time later, to sort out their navigation (day VFR, they had EFIS, iPads and phones etc). The first approach they did a go around. 2nd time same thing go around. The 3rd time stalled it about 10 feet above the ground, left wing hit, full power applied (causing it to roll left more) and they went for a ride into a water retention pound near the runway. It flipped and they were not hurt.
The new owner made a bunch of observations and excuses. One the plane was uncontrollable on takeoff, stating at 75% power he needed 50% rudder. OK a light plane, powerful motor (for this size and weight plane), P-factor, Slip Stream, Torque, pression, kind of normal. Never the less a P-51 has too much power as well. This guy said this plane had too much HP and was dangerous. Many of course many are flying this make/model with this 135 HP Honda engine. A Cessna and Piper with longer rudder moment arm, steerable nose wheel is different than a Zenith for sure.
After the accident he realized he was over max gross. He realized the empty weight was much higher than the generic one Zenith publishes for smaller engine installation. The new owner/PIC never did a W&B and jumped in. He goes on to say the Certified planes he flew he never had to worry about W&B. Oh really? Any small GA plane will all seats full of adults, full fuel are near or over gross, much less baggage. Not until you get to the higher HP planes can you fill the seats comfortably within gross wt. limits. C152/172. Cherokee/Warrior all had limits to payload. Never the less he later observed that his plane weighed almost 200 lbs more than the generic empty weight published by Zenith, in part due to the automotive engine package. This he felt severely limited his payload and not being practical for his 230lb weight. He was right there. He is figuring all this out after he bought it and crashed it. Also I did not know the Zenith 750 Cruiser has 48 gallon capacity. So when flying with passenger and bags, partial fuel is always in order with this plane unless the pilot and passenger are super svelte Swedish bikini models with baggage only having a spare bikini in it. Ha ha. (Hey a guy can dream)
The conclusion by the owner is EAB Kit planes are un safe and don't have to meet any regulations or standards. You will be surprised when I say he has a point about safety... Of course there are regulations and standards, just not Part 23. If you look at the statistics EAB's are a little more prone to crashes. Most of that is people like his Gentleman crashing a good plane. However his salient point is Experimental planes are different than the Cessna's and Piper's he flew. True.
Also he goes on to say he is only going to buy a Certified plane from now on. Yes they are all the same and standardized made by a manufacture to Part 23. Experimental planes are amateur built. Of course a Zenith or Van's kits are high quality and standardized which helps. However when it comes to engines, props, panels, systems the sky is the limit. Workmanship is another issue.
So please help folks who want to transition into an experimental built EAB planes with a reality check. Strongly recommend they don't fly without training. The WHOLE idea of EAB planes was EDUCATION, not an alternative to factory planes. When you build you learn a lot. Now that they became so prolific and popular with easy to build high quality kits (resulting in very desirable and expensive planes fetching more than a factory built plane and now a commodity), many folks are buying them like they would a Cessna or Piper. This is why experimental planes are less safe.... mostly to do with training and experience issues. Accident rates is a whole other topic.
Even if you built it, if you have no experience in this type of plane, or even recent experience not flying much as you built, by all means get some transition training. Many people don't and get away with it, build experience and all is well. However too many times it does not work out. The incident or accident with people flying new planes (even certified ones) is totally preventable with training and some initial experienced with an instructor. So many accidents of people buying a plane they never flew and flying it home and having an accident.
The first flight they did almost no preflight, no W&B and not super familiar with the plane's avionics. They took off down wind a minute or two after start. The takeoff and climb out was normal (there is a video). They elected to return to airport a short time later, to sort out their navigation (day VFR, they had EFIS, iPads and phones etc). The first approach they did a go around. 2nd time same thing go around. The 3rd time stalled it about 10 feet above the ground, left wing hit, full power applied (causing it to roll left more) and they went for a ride into a water retention pound near the runway. It flipped and they were not hurt.
The new owner made a bunch of observations and excuses. One the plane was uncontrollable on takeoff, stating at 75% power he needed 50% rudder. OK a light plane, powerful motor (for this size and weight plane), P-factor, Slip Stream, Torque, pression, kind of normal. Never the less a P-51 has too much power as well. This guy said this plane had too much HP and was dangerous. Many of course many are flying this make/model with this 135 HP Honda engine. A Cessna and Piper with longer rudder moment arm, steerable nose wheel is different than a Zenith for sure.
After the accident he realized he was over max gross. He realized the empty weight was much higher than the generic one Zenith publishes for smaller engine installation. The new owner/PIC never did a W&B and jumped in. He goes on to say the Certified planes he flew he never had to worry about W&B. Oh really? Any small GA plane will all seats full of adults, full fuel are near or over gross, much less baggage. Not until you get to the higher HP planes can you fill the seats comfortably within gross wt. limits. C152/172. Cherokee/Warrior all had limits to payload. Never the less he later observed that his plane weighed almost 200 lbs more than the generic empty weight published by Zenith, in part due to the automotive engine package. This he felt severely limited his payload and not being practical for his 230lb weight. He was right there. He is figuring all this out after he bought it and crashed it. Also I did not know the Zenith 750 Cruiser has 48 gallon capacity. So when flying with passenger and bags, partial fuel is always in order with this plane unless the pilot and passenger are super svelte Swedish bikini models with baggage only having a spare bikini in it. Ha ha. (Hey a guy can dream)
The conclusion by the owner is EAB Kit planes are un safe and don't have to meet any regulations or standards. You will be surprised when I say he has a point about safety... Of course there are regulations and standards, just not Part 23. If you look at the statistics EAB's are a little more prone to crashes. Most of that is people like his Gentleman crashing a good plane. However his salient point is Experimental planes are different than the Cessna's and Piper's he flew. True.
Also he goes on to say he is only going to buy a Certified plane from now on. Yes they are all the same and standardized made by a manufacture to Part 23. Experimental planes are amateur built. Of course a Zenith or Van's kits are high quality and standardized which helps. However when it comes to engines, props, panels, systems the sky is the limit. Workmanship is another issue.
So please help folks who want to transition into an experimental built EAB planes with a reality check. Strongly recommend they don't fly without training. The WHOLE idea of EAB planes was EDUCATION, not an alternative to factory planes. When you build you learn a lot. Now that they became so prolific and popular with easy to build high quality kits (resulting in very desirable and expensive planes fetching more than a factory built plane and now a commodity), many folks are buying them like they would a Cessna or Piper. This is why experimental planes are less safe.... mostly to do with training and experience issues. Accident rates is a whole other topic.
Even if you built it, if you have no experience in this type of plane, or even recent experience not flying much as you built, by all means get some transition training. Many people don't and get away with it, build experience and all is well. However too many times it does not work out. The incident or accident with people flying new planes (even certified ones) is totally preventable with training and some initial experienced with an instructor. So many accidents of people buying a plane they never flew and flying it home and having an accident.
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