A lot has to do with pilot skill, so anyone contemplating it as a future option should probably practice it and discover their own personal minimums. Just remember you’ll get no thrust and increased drag with a stopped prop so add in a cushion.
A lot has to do with pilot skill, so anyone contemplating it as a future option should probably practice it and discover their own personal minimums. Just remember you’ll get no thrust and increased drag with a stopped prop so add in a cushion.
Just watched the EAA Webenar on this subject. Do yourself a favor - watch it.
You will need a very steep turn and right above the stall speed,.
...but I think most would be surprised that for some aircraft and under many conditions...it’s just not possible to get back to the runway no matter how skillful you are.
I've gone out and taught myself these. Why?? Because at the end of my runway is nothing but buildings, ie certain death. (Death is guaranteed to ruin your whole day) (And the winds are "always" down the bad runway.) So I went up to 7000' first--yanked the throttle, counted 1001,1002,1003, 1004---THEN pushed the yoke forward abruptly. I played with angles of bank, and airspeeds. (Now this is on "my" RV 8, Might be different on your 8,7,6, 4,3, 9, 10, 12, or 14)
Here's what I found. Anything over a 45* angle of bank started stall shuttering. (That's with full flaps)
Also anything below that 85 KIAS "AT" that 45* bank also started the shuttering.
(I should just put this together)----more than 45* bank angle and less then 85 knots with full flaps, was a no no. I "could" get down to 75 KIAS, but my bank ankle had to be considerably less. AND---while making the almost 270* turn back, you've got to remember to get your full 45* of flaps out---(or else)
So after I practiced this routine at a safe altitude numerous times, I went down to a very sleepy airport, and practiced there. Ye-e-e-e-eh, I can do them from 500 feet, but don't forget, I knew it was coming---no surprise factor. I could definitely do them from 700 feet. But---I thought, nah, unless its nothing but hard buildings in front of me, I'm "not" gonna try it below 1000'.
So guys--------------think about your own particular situation. Is there decent grass and flatness in front of you? Land straight ahead---forget everything I've said here. (And I forgotten to mention, this is practice for an engine failure at your home airport---if you're out in tim buc tu, one is probably NOT gonna know the layout around "that" airport if the engine quits.)
2>Next--- See if there's "empty" roads or fields just off to your left or right. ONLY IF THERRE'S ZIP----NADA there--ie---you're gonna die---then go up and practice what I've said here. And please go high enough at first, so if you wind up going straight down due to a )*^$#, you've got plenty of altitude to pull out of it.
ALSO: If you do practice this at altitude, and then down low, make sure you learn em in both directions, left AND RIGHT. Ya never know. You might have to go right.
I could have written this in a little better order, but I was too lazy to rewrite it all
Taking off, blankaty blank engine quits, you've attained whatever "your magic altitude" is for "YOU" from your practicing. (Never forget it--note what your airport looks like at "that" particular altitude.) If It's me, I'm immediately lowering the nose, thumb already running out full flaps, banking left up to 45* and airspped no less than 85 Kts.
Go out and practice practice, practice. (At altitude first) Actually its fun
AND------------do em every 6 months------or you'll get rusty.
And last but not least, I know guys out there will poo poo me. I've got well over 900 hours in my 8, and roughly 23000 TT
I've gone out and taught myself these. Why?? Because at the end of my runway is nothing but buildings, ie certain death. (Death is guaranteed to ruin your whole day) (And the winds are "always" down the bad runway.) So I went up to 7000' first--yanked the throttle, counted 1001,1002,1003, 1004---THEN pushed the yoke forward abruptly. I played with angles of bank, and airspeeds. (Now this is on "my" RV 8, Might be different on your 8,7,6, 4,3, 9, 10, 12, or 14)
Here's what I found. Anything over a 45* angle of bank started stall shuttering. (That's with full flaps)
Also anything below that 85 KIAS "AT" that 45* bank also started the shuttering.
(I should just put this together)----more than 45* bank angle and less then 85 knots with full flaps, was a no no. I "could" get down to 75 KIAS, but my bank ankle had to be considerably less. AND---while making the almost 270* turn back, you've got to remember to get your full 45* of flaps out---(or else)
So after I practiced this routine at a safe altitude numerous times, I went down to a very sleepy airport, and practiced there. Ye-e-e-e-eh, I can do them from 500 feet, but don't forget, I knew it was coming---no surprise factor. I could definitely do them from 700 feet. But---I thought, nah, unless its nothing but hard buildings in front of me, I'm "not" gonna try it below 1000'.
So guys--------------think about your own particular situation. Is there decent grass and flatness in front of you? Land straight ahead---forget everything I've said here. (And I forgotten to mention, this is practice for an engine failure at your home airport---if you're out in tim buc tu, one is probably NOT gonna know the layout around "that" airport if the engine quits.)
2>Next--- See if there's "empty" roads or fields just off to your left or right. ONLY IF THERRE'S ZIP----NADA there--ie---you're gonna die---then go up and practice what I've said here. And please go high enough at first, so if you wind up going straight down due to a )*^$#, you've got plenty of altitude to pull out of it.
ALSO: If you do practice this at altitude, and then down low, make sure you learn em in both directions, left AND RIGHT. Ya never know. You might have to go right.
I could have written this in a little better order, but I was too lazy to rewrite it all
Taking off, blankaty blank engine quits, you've attained whatever "your magic altitude" is for "YOU" from your practicing. (Never forget it--note what your airport looks like at "that" particular altitude.) If It's me, I'm immediately lowering the nose, thumb already running out full flaps, banking left up to 45* and airspped no less than 85 Kts.
Go out and practice practice, practice. (At altitude first) Actually its fun
AND------------do em every 6 months------or you'll get rusty.
And last but not least, I know guys out there will poo poo me. I've got well over 900 hours in my 8, and roughly 23000 TT
Here's what I found. Anything over a 45* angle of bank started stall shuttering. (That's with full flaps)
Another option is to hold runway heading and let any crosswind present drift you off the centerline. Then any turn back is into wind, which will artificially tighten the the turning circle and keep you closer in. I do this at both controlled and uncontrolled fields. Every little bit helps.I add one more thing at my home airport, a thirty degree turn off of take off runway heading gives a huge advantage in the turn back.
My instructor drilled me on the turn back before my first flight. Best loss, 150 ft. 200 typical. He yanked the throttle, counted to 4 before I could act, then nose down to unload the wing(s) and a fast 180. then straight to a spot and glide speed. Prop full out. It really takes practice (at altitude) to understand the limits.
I add one more thing at my home airport, a thirty degree turn off of take off runway heading gives a huge advantage in the turn back. Uncontrolled airport. I can turn back consistently from 600 ft. the runway is 5002 ft. Long, in a strong headwind I might run off of the end at a very slow speed. I have practiced a lot and had a pilot observer in the right seat to monitor bank and airspeed.
Understand?
To posters 13 and 21. I'm at zero flaps on the takeoff. As I'm bending the airplane around in that 270* turn, to get back to the airport, I'm running out my flaps to lower my stall speed, so I don't stall and die. (At 45* bank, I'm gonna stall with no flaps, and I'm at max bank trying to get back to the runway) ) The airport is right there----behind me. To leave the flaps up---well Ok, sure, but that would mean I'm high enough above the airport, that I can afford the luxury of having a higher stall speed, and more time to glide back, ie, I'm farther away. Understand?
+1 Exactly. Turning through approximately 180 degrees without engine power is hardly a high risk aerobatic manoeuvre. But like all emergency manoeuvres it is MUCH more likely to be successfully executed by a pilot who is proficient in the technique. Forced off field landings...stall recovery...turnback at take-off...you don't want to be attempting any of these things for the first time in a real emergency. Practice makes perfect.
No, I don’t understand. Best glide speed for our aircraft is well above stall. In this maneuver, the objective is to get back to the runway.
I can make it back from 400' in the RV-4. Today was calm with no traffic at KIKG. Started at 500', pretty easy although I cheated a bit and didn't count to four. I can probably do it from 300' under the same conditions. Folks at the airport thought I had lost my mind.
Vac, you make it look easy!https://youtu.be/trnwzBYvBQg
I find it helpful to be able to listen to Vx AoA and Vy AoA during takeoff. Flaps 20 in the RV-4 is optimum lift/drag trade off. Flaps 10 would be better, but my Armstrong system only has two settings. ONSPEED reference provides optimum glide cues during maneuvering.
Unlike airspeed, AOA isn’t effected by weight, G load, or density altitude. Nice for us less talented stick monkeys that have trouble with cockpit math.
Vac
FlyONSPEED.org
. . . us less talented stick monkeys . . . .
Vac
FlyONSPEED.org
The webinar was very eye-opening. The main takeaway I got was the analysis that showed the glide line versus the climb angle. If you are not above that best glide angle on climb out, there’s no way you will make it back to the airport in a turn back....