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  #1  
Old 09-05-2022, 02:48 AM
KayS KayS is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: lake constance
Posts: 486
Default lead-alternative for protecting valve seats

this weekend i stumbled over something at a swiss gas station and the current discussion about G100UL came to mind. here's the stuff...

https://motorex.com/en-us/valve-guard--40918

they sold the bottle for 10 bucks or so. switzerland is not known for being an el cheapo country.

i am no engine expert and have no clue if lubricating valve seats is really needed and if so for what kind of engines that would apply.

but in case you think it's a good idea to lubricate your valve seats and in the future absence of 100LL... does anyone has experiences with that kind of product as an alternative to leaded avgas?

Kay

Last edited by KayS : 09-05-2022 at 03:30 AM.
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  #2  
Old 09-05-2022, 03:38 AM
tgmillso tgmillso is offline
 
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Location: Launceston, Tasmania, Australia
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Hi Kay,

Before you part with your hard earned cash, it may pay to read some of John Deakinís articles. Hereís one to get you started, but heís got plenty on engine operation, leaning etc.

https://www.avweb.com/features/pelic...n-the-hogwash/

Tom
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  #3  
Old 09-05-2022, 05:34 AM
RV6_flyer's Avatar
RV6_flyer RV6_flyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NC25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgmillso View Post
Hi Kay,

Before you part with your hard earned cash, it may pay to read some of John Deakin’s articles. Here’s one to get you started, but he’s got plenty on engine operation, leaning etc.

https://www.avweb.com/features/pelic...n-the-hogwash/

Tom
RV-7
Tom:

Thanks for sharing.

Those that are old enough to remember lead in our car gas can remember the same scare tactics when TEL was removed from car gas.

Nothing happened to old car engines when we went lead free fuel.
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Last edited by RV6_flyer : 09-05-2022 at 09:55 AM. Reason: grammer
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  #4  
Old 09-05-2022, 07:48 AM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV6_flyer View Post
Nothing happened to old car engines when we went lead free fuel.
Other than you no longer needed to scrape the sludge out of the oil panÖ.

Carl
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  #5  
Old 09-05-2022, 08:31 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV6_flyer View Post
Tom:

Thanks for sharing.

Those of use that are old enough to remember lead in our car gas can remember the same scare tactics when TEL was removed from car gas.

Nothing happened to old car engines when we went lead free fuel.
The auto companies moved to different alloys for valves and seats when lead went away. I speculate that many engines of that era lost compression and either died early than they should have or had the valves replaced. I was barely a teenager, so not yet working on engines.

My guess is that Lyc moved to the then standard alloys for valves and seats in the 80's as the older stuff was probably harder to get.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 09-05-2022 at 08:34 AM.
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  #6  
Old 09-05-2022, 09:14 AM
blaplante blaplante is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 507
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At one time auto cylinder heads were cast iron, and the seats were simply machined into the cast iron. THOSE seats depended on lead to survive. Early MGB's are an example.

As the lead went out, hardened steel valve seat inserts went in. [Or were retrofitted, like on my MGB]

As Lycoming heads were never cast iron (but rather aluminum), they always had to have a valve seat insert.
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  #7  
Old 09-05-2022, 10:49 AM
abwaldal@gmail.com abwaldal@gmail.com is offline
 
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Location: Battle Ground WA
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To add on to Blaplante's comment of old valves/heads.
I had an older chev van in the late 80's that we ran on propane. (dumb idea)
We tore the engine down at about 150,000 for overhaul cause of oil burn/leak problems.
The valves were very, very worn and the seats were gone. We actually got a different set of heads and had them machined for steel hardened seat inserts.
Propane is hard on valves. That said, Was it the lack of lead? or just the propane? It was the first time I\'ve ever seen valves worn out like that. And I've overhauled a few thousand of the older motors. A lot of times at only 60-80,000 miles too. They didn't seem to last very long.
Don't know, But, as said we have insert seats in our aircraft engines, So the lead lubrication question seem to be a moot point.
My I0-360 runs on Costco premium year in and year out.
With the SDS EM-5F fuel injection and ignition systems.
My three cents worth Art
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  #8  
Old 09-05-2022, 10:59 AM
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Roadjunkie1 Roadjunkie1 is offline
 
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Location: Erie, Colorado
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Default TEL in fuels

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgmillso View Post
Before you part with your hard earned cash, it may pay to read some of John Deakinís articles. Hereís one to get you started, but heís got plenty on engine operation, leaning etc.

https://www.avweb.com/features/pelic...n-the-hogwash/
Good article, as all of his seem to be.

OK: first off, I really miss the smell of 80/87 octane fuel! For all you younger folks, it had this pretty dark purple color and a very unique odor! 100/130 and eventually 100LL just not the same. And unleaded auto fuel: no competition!

I really can't remember when I started using auto fuel in my Cub but it "might" have been before 1982 when the STC came out. I was one of the first in line to get that STC. Now she flies with the placard allowing for the use of auto fuel....with no alcohol!

I could look at my log books to find out how many hours I have on auto fuel but it is likely over 1500. I have had several stuck valves but Continentals (and to an extent Lycomings) are famous for that. I have replaced one cylinder with an eroded exhaust valve seat but that might have happened with leaded fuel. I do slip 100LL in the tanks occasionally when other fuels are not available (and auto is becoming less frequently carried at airports) and check plugs for fouling at about 25 hours after.

I still run 100LL in my 160hp O-320 RV-4 but am not sure auto would have the octane to prevent detonation. It will be interesting to see where this all ends up. SOMEthing has to happen.......will happen.......

The picture is my younger (and skinnier) self fueling the Cub c 1982 or so....
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  #9  
Old 09-05-2022, 10:59 AM
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Plummit Plummit is offline
 
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Isn't that what MMO is for?

-Marc
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  #10  
Old 09-05-2022, 01:19 PM
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Mike S Mike S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plummit View Post
Isn't that what MMO is for?

-Marc
I was told it was for valve guides, not seats.
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