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  #41  
Old 05-21-2022, 11:14 AM
Mile High Relic Mile High Relic is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Posts: 326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rongawer View Post
However, for experimental use, which we are talking about, a Lycoming engine will use the C4 housing, the element is FE-15, the spring is FE-RS1 and the o-ring is QR2. These components together will form a non-PMA filter that mirrors the Challenger CP48109.
I definitely appreciate all the input people have made to this thread, but I can't seem to figure out what K&P option would replace the 48110. 48109 and 48110 have some different dimensions, although it looks like the mounting dimensions are the same. The ACS descriptions (shown in the screenshot) are also different. It is clear that CP-48110C is the Challenger part, but I don't know how to translate that to the K&P housing, filter, spring and o-ring part numbers with any level of confidence.

Do you know if the S15 (or the C3 or C4 housings) works to replace the 48110 too?

Also, does the C4 housing come with the hex "nut" shown in the picture? That alone would make it desirable over the C3.

Thanks,

John
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  #42  
Old 05-21-2022, 11:22 AM
gasman gasman is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 4,390
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If you need the nut, It will co$t you. It is not needed. Don't purchase in parts, just order the S-15 and the thread adapter.

Skip that post that you referenced and read through the others again. Everything is explained.
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Last edited by gasman : 05-21-2022 at 12:01 PM.
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  #43  
Old 05-21-2022, 03:35 PM
DCBrown198 DCBrown198 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Dallas
Posts: 29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbalmos View Post
Further clarification -

K&P only sells via distributors. usaoilfilters.com is their distributor sister-company that you should order through. Do not mention anything "airplane", else K&P will cut the conversation very short and point you to Challenger. .
How very true. I spoke with them briefly over the phone about C4 housing versus C3 and safety wiring a C3.

Then went to their website (USAOilfilters). I ordered a S15 and a 3/4-16 nipple.

Two hours later I get an email that they have canceled my order due to the fact that they suspect, from my phone call, that this might go on an airplane.

David
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  #44  
Old 05-21-2022, 04:32 PM
Mile High Relic Mile High Relic is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Posts: 326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasman View Post
If you need the nut, It will co$t you. It is not needed. Don't purchase in parts, just order the S-15 and the thread adapter.

Skip that post that you referenced and read through the others again. Everything is explained.
I probably need it explained Barney style. Regardless of that, while following your (now bolded) suggestion, I'm still left wondering whether to order the default (w/ bypass) or the non-bypass version of S15. The 48110 doesn't have an internal bypass, or at least that is what DanH said in this thread https://vansairforce.net/community/s...=199634&page=3

I can guess the likely answer, but hope someone will chime in again.

The ACS description for the Challenger version says w/o relief valve. Would having both internal and external bypasses matter?
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  #45  
Old 05-21-2022, 09:06 PM
gasman gasman is offline
 
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Location: Sonoma County
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Bypass valves are a good thing. There is no problem having two. If The media gets clogged, the oil and extra pressure needs to go somewhere.
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  #46  
Old 05-22-2022, 07:27 AM
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rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
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Location: LSGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCBrown198 View Post
How very true. I spoke with them briefly over the phone about C4 housing versus C3 and safety wiring a C3.

Then went to their website (USAOilfilters). I ordered a S15 and a 3/4-16 nipple.

Two hours later I get an email that they have canceled my order due to the fact that they suspect, from my phone call, that this might go on an airplane.

David
Can't blame them - they have apparently transferred the risk of selling aviation products to Challenger. You will get a similar response from just about any clued-in vendor of stuff that might be used in aviation.
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  #47  
Old 05-22-2022, 09:52 AM
rongawer rongawer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brentwood, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile High Relic View Post
I definitely appreciate all the input people have made to this thread, but I can't seem to figure out what K&P option would replace the 48110. 48109 and 48110 have some different dimensions, although it looks like the mounting dimensions are the same. The ACS descriptions (shown in the screenshot) are also different. It is clear that CP-48110C is the Challenger part, but I don't know how to translate that to the K&P housing, filter, spring and o-ring part numbers with any level of confidence.

Do you know if the S15 (or the C3 or C4 housings) works to replace the 48110 too?

Also, does the C4 housing come with the hex "nut" shown in the picture? That alone would make it desirable over the C3.

Thanks,

John
Yes, the C4 housing has the 1" nut on the end. It is the same in volume as the C3 housing. The direct answer to your question is that you can replace a 48110 with a S15, along with the 3/4-16 Thread Fitting. The 48110-1 filter does not have a bypass, but you can buy the S15 without one as well if desired. Noting DCBrown198's issue, maybe don't call them after all and instead just buy the S15 and nipple online USA Oilfilters, otherwise buy the S15 and then buy the 3/4-16 nipple from somewhere else, such as this one from Summit Racing.

I've had no issue ordering the C4 housing in the past. I've bought two filters from Challenger for my certified airplanes and then the C4 on three different occasions for experimental aircraft, once via the USA Oil Filters website and twice over the phone, clearly stating it was for my experimental aircraft; I worked with Dave Fisher if that helps. Others have reportedly had issues doing so, noted on this thread and few others on the forum. I agree with, and have said before that I believe their apprehension is related to protecting their PMA supplier agreement with Challenger, which is entirely understandable.

Assuming that you are not able to purchase the C4 housing and desire the 1" nut, the CP-48110C filter is available as a certified part for $279 from Knots 2U. In the big scheme of all things aviation, it's not that much more than a machined finish S15 with the adapter, but also already has the "nut" and is drilled for safetying.

Yet another alternative is to buy the filter through a local dealer. My local KTM motorcycle dealer is also a K&P dealer will be happy to sell me whatever is available from K&P in his dealer catalog.

Even if you buy the filter from Challenger, you can still buy and use the QR2 quad rings directly from USA Oil Filters as needed. I get about 2-3 oil changes per side of the quad-ring based on wear or nicks in the rubber.
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Last edited by rongawer : 05-25-2022 at 08:38 PM.
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  #48  
Old 05-22-2022, 11:10 AM
Mile High Relic Mile High Relic is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rongawer View Post
Yes, the C4 housing has the 1" nut on the end. It is the same in volume as the C3 housing. The direct answer to your question is that you can replace a 48110 with a S15, along with the 3/4-116 Thread Fitting. The 48110-1 filter does not have a bypass, but you can buy the S15 without one as well if desired. Noting DCBrown198's issue, maybe don't call them after all and instead just buy the S15 and nipple online USA Oilfilters, otherwise buy the S15 and then buy the 3/4-16 nipple from somewhere else, such as this one from Summit Racing.

I've had no issue ordering the C4 housing in the past. I've bought two filters from Challenger for my certified airplanes and then the C4 on three different occasions for experimental aircraft, once via the USA Oil Filters website and twice over the phone, clearly stating it was for my experimental aircraft; I worked with Dave Fisher if that helps. Others have reportedly had issues doing so, noted on this thread and few others on the forum. I agree with, and have said before that I believe their apprehension is related to protecting their PMA supplier agreement with Challenger, which is entirely understandable.

Assuming that you are not able to purchase the C4 housing and desire the 1" nut, the CP-48110C filter is available as a certified part for $279 from Knots 2U. In the big scheme of all things aviation, it's not that much more than a machined finish S15 with the adapter, but also already has the "nut" and is drilled for safetying.

Yet another alternative is to buy the filter through a local dealer. My local KTM motorcycle dealer is also a K&P dealer will be happy to sell me whatever is available from K&P in his dealer catalog.

Even if you buy the filter from Challenger, you can still buy and use the QR2 quad rings directly from USA Oil Filters as needed. I get about 2-3 oil changes per side of the quad-ring based on wear or nicks in the rubber.
Wow. Thanks for all the research and that very thorough response. That helps explain everything very, very well.

After thinking more about the aluminum nut, I feel like it might get marred up with the way I handle wrenches sometimes, but I may still get the PMA version.

Thanks again.
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  #49  
Old 05-23-2022, 09:49 AM
rongawer rongawer is offline
 
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Location: Brentwood, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile High Relic View Post
After thinking more about the aluminum nut, I feel like it might get marred up with the way I handle wrenches sometimes, but I may still get the PMA version.

Thanks again.
I've had the Challenger filters (the PMA'd laser etched version of the K&P Engineering filters) for many years. While they do have some tooling marks from many, many uses, the "nuts" are still in good shape and hold up well.
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  #50  
Old 06-09-2022, 06:22 PM
rongawer rongawer is offline
 
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Here's my new S10 housing with an oil vent (the reusable version of poking a nail in the filter). Beautiful craftsmanship.
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