Yes zero flap T/O is fine. Think of all the GA planes from C-150/2 to Cherokees, POH recommends zero flap for normal hard surface Rwy T/O. Also all these GA planes POH recommend partial flaps for soft field and obstacle (short) takeoffs. So this applies to RV's because... they are airplanes. However in my 30 yrs of flying RV's and watching other RV pilots it is tribal knowledge and SOP from my experience to use a "notch" of flaps for all T/O's. Is 5 degrees, 10 or 15 degree flaps better? Flight testing with careful test piloting and measurements may give optimal settings. However RV's have excess performance it's not and issue. I think for soft field flaps may help you break ground and accelerate faster in ground affect as we all learned in Pvt pilot curriculum.Just wondering what flap settings pilots are using, currently I am using 10 degrees for my recently completed RV14A. Is a zero flap take-off considered acceptable? John
other than practicing short or soft field takeoffs during transition training, I don’t think I’ve ever made a takeoff with flaps in my -9A. Can’t think why I would do that…seems like it would add unnecessary complexity to the process.
I never use flaps for T/O in my RV-9A unless I’m at high altitude above 4000’ DA. The 9 just leaps off the ground. My high altitude procedure is 10 deg flaps and lean the motor a bit and remember not to panic when the T/O is twice as much.
Wilson
I always use 15° flap for take-off. Less time on the ground, better visibility over the nose, less tire wear. Reason for doing it every time, you establish a routine, thereby lessening the probability of forgetting to raise them.
I use my checklist
"...Reason for doing it every time, you establish a routine, thereby lessening the probability of forgetting to raise them..."
Yep, rote learning at its finest...unfortunately, that is one of lowest levels of learning.
when you do have a go-around and you had flaps down, you will quickly bust your flap speed if you forget to retract them.
Normally I'm in the zero flap camp.
But I occasionally demonstrate full flap take offs. Those occasions happen when I get distracted and they stay where they were.
SOP for me is: After landing, if going to park leave flaps full down. If taxiing back for takeoff raise flaps during taxi.
It works most of the time, but I somehow demonstrated full flap takeoff just 3 days ago
The good news, the plane can handle it, and it's among the easiest Oops!'s to fix.
Very strongly disagree!! I found when doing missed approaches in the RV-9A, it was all too easy to forget to raise the flaps, or when distracted by a vector right after takeoff (Class C airspace). "80 knots, flaps up" is now a habit pattern, every time I go to full throttle.
There are a number of similar memory jogs used by pilots who fly retractables so they don't forget the gear.
Rote learning is different from a habit pattern. Rote learning is "memorization of information based on repetition." That's different.
Hmmm...
Say what you will, I have flown with, trained, and evaluated enough pilots to have a reasonable basis for my comment. Doing things in an airplane without thinking about them isn't a good plan...
When I practice a go around or engine out, the first thing I reach for is my checklist.
Just wondering what flap settings pilots are using, currently I am using 10 degrees for my recently completed RV14A.
Is a zero flap take-off considered acceptable?
John
Going all the way back to the original post that started this thread (BTW, you’ll find this same thread very February, when people aren’t flying and just sit at their computers expounding….) - there isn’t an RV model out there for which flaps are REQUIRED for take-off. I’ve flown them all, and they will all do just fine if you leave them up - although you will get some advantages with partial flaps for soft and/or short fields, just as you do with many other types of airplanes.
But there is pretty much zero risk, and nothing wrong, with not using flaps in any RV model for take-off.
In terms of training, I operate so many different types of airplanes that I use what is appropriate for each - I don’t try and memorize (or generate muscle memory) that will work in all of them. In my hangar I have taildragger and conventional, fixed gear and retractable, high wings and low wings, fast and slow - they each have their own checklist, and each have their own procedures. What they have in common is “flight controls free and correct” - I have never found an airplane where that isn’t a good idea before take-off. Other than that, fly the airplane you find yourself in at the moment.
Paul
Unfortunately, since the introduction of the -10, and now the -14, there is a terminology problem. “Full up” is, I hope, self explanatory. But what is “zero degree flaps”? Is it full up, which is actually reflexed -3 deg? Or is it ‘in trail’? I’ve seen it used both ways.
0 flaps for me on hard surface unless the runway is very very short.
Soft field T/O usually flaps 10 and up to 20 deg with almost 3-point attitude to transfer weight to the wings early on.
Going all the way back to the original post that started this thread (BTW, you’ll find this same thread very February, when people aren’t flying and just sit at their computers expounding….) - there isn’t an RV model out there for which flaps are REQUIRED for take-off. I’ve flown them all, and they will all do just fine if you leave them up - although you will get some advantages with partial flaps for soft and/or short fields, just as you do with many other types of airplanes.
But there is pretty much zero risk, and nothing wrong, with not using flaps in any RV model for take-off.
In terms of training, I operate so many different types of airplanes that I use what is appropriate for each - I don’t try and memorize (or generate muscle memory) that will work in all of them. In my hangar I have taildragger and conventional, fixed gear and retractable, high wings and low wings, fast and slow - they each have their own checklist, and each have their own procedures. What they have in common is “flight controls free and correct” - I have never found an airplane where that isn’t a good idea before take-off. Other than that, fly the airplane you find yourself in at the moment.
Paul
……conventional is a tail dragger!
I only use flaps in heavy machinery, Mr Vans designs are kinda over powered anyway.