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Wingtip lens quality

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flyinfool2

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Just received these wingtip lens with my -9A wing kit. The clarity to me looks less than optimal. How does this compare to others out there?
 

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Lens clarity

flyinfool2 said:
Just received these wingtip lens with my -9A wing kit. The clarity to me looks less than optimal. How does this compare to others out there?
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It likely won't make much difference in the light coming through the lens but those look like they were made out of pasta.....:eek: Not on MY airplane! Could you polish them out? I don't think so. Looks like the deformity is in the plastic itself. Yeah, I'd give Van's a call. Quality control must not have had their glasses on.....:cool:
 
Their response to my inquiry was basically "that's normal quality to keep overall kit cost down" & "you can purchase higher quality elsewhere, or try to polish it out".
 
Huh............

flyinfool2 said:
Their response to my inquiry was basically "that's normal quality to keep overall kit cost down" & "you can purchase higher quality elsewhere, or try to polish it out".
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Really. Huh. What is your time worth? Would you rather polish these out or go elsewhere.....? Not good product backing...........:mad:
 
Thats really kind of sad.

My lens blank came with my used wing kit circa 2007. It was wrapped in a paper towel in the bottom of a rubber made tote when I got it and I have to say I don't remember if it had a Vans part number sticker or not, but it didn't have any bubbles like that at all.
 

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Vans is under some pressure but they can't have slipped that much!
There must be something missing in your communication to Vans... I can't believe someone there who understands the problem would call this "normal quality ...".

Make a call and explain your situation over the phone, I bet they'll make it right.

Cheers
 
Quality

flyinfool2 said:
Their response to my inquiry was basically "that's normal quality to keep overall kit cost down" & "you can purchase higher quality elsewhere, or try to polish it out".
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Wow! That is upsetting. A business that tells customers to pound dirt? Disappointed.
My last order took a really long time to ship. When I called, they said, we wre working on Nov 30. I don't know what's going on over there, but that stuff usually comes back to bite. There's no competition now, but someday...
I actually bought an extra. Several reasons. Mainly as a backup for mistakes but also to replace if the first one fogs or gets damaged. Neither looks like that.
 
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wcalvert said:
Vans is under some pressure but they can't have slipped that much!
There must be something missing in your communication to Vans... I can't believe someone there who understands the problem would call this "normal quality ...".

Make a call and explain your situation over the phone, I bet they'll make it right.

Cheers
Click to expand...

My email to them:
“Please see attached photos of part VA-166 received in a recently delivered wing Kit.
Is the quality and clarity of this normal? It seems this would affect aircraft lighting through the lens.”


Their verbatim response:
“Thank you for the supporting photos.

This is normal/common/expected.

Some background information: During the entire history of Van’s Aircraft, we have always been extremely sensitive to the cost of our kits. The RV wingtip lenses have never been to the optical clarity/quality of the canopies and the price of these items reflect that. These lenses are for lights and not human vision.

I can almost guarantee you that if this item was produced by the same company that makes our canopies and done with the optical clarity criteria of those canopies, the wingtip lens covers would easily be in the $200-400 range each.

Possibly some of the blemishes might be reduced and clarity improved with the use of media/process/technique/polishing agents utilized in the plexiglass/Lexan/plastics industry. You are also free to return your lenses to Van’s (I will attach a return form) and investigate forming or having someone custom form ones of your use..”


I’ll definitely be looking into this more. Maybe the photos don’t do justice to what I see in person. I also don’t have anything to compare against, hence my post to the community to ask what others have experienced. Thanks for the input from all.
 
Lens

Here's my spare. Sorry, but I didn't do a good job on the first pair, so I need this one.
20221219_161759.jpg
 
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WIng tip lens clarity.....

flyinfool2 said:
.......The RV wingtip lenses have never been to the optical clarity/quality of the canopies and the price of these items reflect that. These lenses are for lights and not human vision.......I can almost guarantee you that if this item was produced by the same company that makes our canopies and done with the optical clarity criteria of those canopies, the wingtip lens covers would easily be in the $200-400 range each......

I’ll definitely be looking into this more. Maybe the photos don’t do justice to what I see in person. I also don’t have anything to compare against, hence my post to the community to ask what others have experienced. Thanks for the input from all.
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Well, I'm not sure what to say. I installed the RMD wing tip lenses (unfortunately, no longer available) years ago and they were made of Lexan. The optical clarity was that of the canopy, as you can see in the picture. Mine did NOT cost $2-400....:eek:

Huh....

Have you looked for other sources of the lenses?
 

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I'm just a novice who made this lense from acrylic in his wife's oven, so surely Vans can do better! Vans were always good in the past at replacing obvious defects and there is something wrong somewhere if it is going to cost $200 to $400 to make a simple part. Flyboys sell the previous version for about $40 I think.
 

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flyinfool2 said:
Their verbatim response:

“Thank you for the supporting photos.

This is normal/common/expected.
Click to expand...

No, it isn't. I've never seen a set that bad in the 4 sets I've had or on any aircraft I've seen on the line at Oshkosh, SnF, or the local ramp.

I'd talk with someone else at Vans, send these back, and have them send a replacement.
 
We'll Check Our's this Week

flyinfool2 said:
How does this compare to others out there?
Click to expand...

We received a set in late spring 22. We'll look at our's when we return to the shop late this week and let you know how they look. BUT, I don't recall seeing anything like this....

Merry Christmas to All!
Mike
 
Mine look like Larry’s - absolutely spot on. No signs of defect at all. Send them back!
 
flyinfool2 said:
Just received these wingtip lens with my -9A wing kit. The clarity to me looks less than optimal. How does this compare to others out there?
Click to expand...

Jason,

Just a couple of other data points:

At HP Aircraft, we get lenses made for us by third parties. The lenses for the RV racing tips are made from PETG (kinda like water bottle material) because it is more resilient and unlikely to crack when being drilled or formed, and because they are pretty inexpensive. We have struggled with the optical quality and are trying to get the vendor to do better. But I have to say, ours are not THAT bad. We get some surface unevenness, kind of like orange peel. They are perfectly functional for light transmission, but don't look like you would want them on a show plane. We are in the process of trying to develop an in-house capability to make lenses, so that we can deliver a better product. BUT your pictures pretty clearly show gas bubbles from over-heating. Those bubbles will scatter light badly and make a landing light far less effective, and will back-scatter strobe light back to the pilot's eyes. That is not typical at all of what Vans usually delivers, as others have pointed out, and I think Vans will exchange them if you return those.

The lenses we have made for us for our L-39 racing wingtips are made from 1/8" polycarbonate (Lexan), and they are optically perfect. They cost us $120 a pair.
 
Come on guys. deep breaths. Van makes a quality kits. Full stop. Van is saying they accept flaws some to keep cost down, because it is not critical. To have high scrap rate would increase cost. That is not outrageous. However these lenses are not acceptable, don't use them. Buy another set and if they look like this send them back. I and others have much better quality. This is a bad batch that is all. Just send them back with some pictures in this thread and tell them you want a better set....

Just looked at my older lenses from my RV7 kit from 15 yrs ago, it is not cloudy or bubbled, but there is distortion O-plenty in the radius. It looks like the OP has over cooked ones. Not sure if these are in house made or vendor parts like some other parts and components are.
 
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I just checked mine, made in Feb of 2022, and it is nowhere near that bad. Just a few tiny bubbles here and there.
You need to speak to the manager!:D
 
I wonder why the change in these wing tip light covers?
Changed Vendors?
Went from Vendor to In House?
Change in process from stretch or vacuum form sheet to cast?

There should be no bubbles if you start with a sheet of plexiglass or lexan and heat and form unless you really over heat it. There is a thing called cast acrylic. That would makes complex shapes easier to make. I understand to make it optical quality is very technical. So loss of clarity with cast products can be expected.
 
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gmcjetpilot said:
I wonder why the change in these wing tip light covers?
Changed Vendors?
Went from Vendor to In House?
Change in process from screeched sheet to cast?

There should be no bubbles if you start with a sheet of plexiglass or lexan and heat and form unless you really over heat it. There is a thing called cast acrylic. That would making a complex shape easier to make but loss of clarity.
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My experience has been that there is a rather narrow window of temperature between getting acrylic really soft and saggy to vacuum form and developing gas bubbles. The lenses supplied by Vans now, I believe are PETG, which may or may not have a similarly narrow temperature range, I don't know.
 
Forming Acrylic

The sliding portion of the Pitts S1 canopy is stretch formed over a plug. Excellent optics. No reason why a light lens cannot be stretch formed. Piece of cake for any competent acrylics shop. The shop that I have used in the past appears to do more automotive work than aircraft.
 
FYI - We're reviewing and discussing this with the vendor that produces these parts. While it's generally accurate that these imperfections don't materially impact the transmission of light through the lenses, we are taking a look at the amount of imperfections, what's acceptable and not, and reviewing overall with the manufacturer.
 
greghughespdx said:
FYI - We're reviewing and discussing this with the vendor that produces these parts. While it's generally accurate that these imperfections don't materially impact the transmission of light through the lenses, we are taking a look at the amount of imperfections, what's acceptable and not, and reviewing overall with the manufacturer.
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Thanks Greg,

I think a real boundary in utility exists when there are gas bubbles in the plastic. That has a much bigger effect on light transmission than waviness/orange peel.
 
There's also the aesthetic factor. Whether the paint job cost $2,000 or $25,000, it shouldn't be let down by a low grade lens, when it is relatively easy to make a good lens.
 
flyinfool2 said:
Their response to my inquiry was basically "that's normal quality to keep overall kit cost down" & "you can purchase higher quality elsewhere, or try to polish it out".
Click to expand...

This type of response from Van’s if accurate, is as disappointing as the poor quality. Better nip that in the bud…
 
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