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What do you call a ?short runway??

N941WR

N941WR

Legacy Member
Today a friend posted this video of a Cessna landing on Fisher Island, NY. (Looks like a cool destination.) This runway is 2300? long and with a headwind, it shouldn?t be a problem for anyone.

It just cracks me up when people call 2300' a "short runway". Here is a link to where I did my first flight and kept the plane for four years. The only reason I moved was so I could get a better hangar. (The comments on this thread were disabled because the pilot got so much sh#$ from people (not me) about his landing and five mile final.) You can see the 1/2 way marker pass by just as he touches down.

What do you consider a short runway for your RV? (or other plane?)

For me, 1800 is short but I?ve done 1600? with the -9.
 
My "everyday" runway is 1500'. I would consider anything less than 1,000' short.
 
1,420' RV-6

On runway 17 at my home airport (52F), from the displaced threshold to the bravo turnoff (halfway down) is 1,420 feet - where I usually exit the runway. I’d call anything less than that in my RV-6 ‘short’. I could easily stop shorter with hard braking, and grass would knock 200’ off that easy cheesy.
 
Bill,

Like you, I think 1800' is my limit for short field. As has been discussed on many threads, the -9 (FP) is tough to land short without doing a low approach like your friend in the 172. It's the only thing I don't like about my performance is the planes inability to "chop and drop". At my home airport I routinely can make the first turn off (1000'), but not with out doing the low approach method. I hope to upgrade to a WW prop next year and I think that will make for a huge improvement.
 
apkp777 said:
Bill,

Like you, I think 1800' is my limit for short field. As has been discussed on many threads, the -9 (FP) is tough to land short without doing a low approach like your friend in the 172. It's the only thing I don't like about my performance is the planes inability to "chop and drop". At my home airport I routinely can make the first turn off (1000'), but not with out doing the low approach method. I hope to upgrade to a WW prop next year and I think that will make for a huge improvement.
Click to expand...

Tony,
I have not flown a FP 9 but I operate my 9A with a Hartzell CS prop from my short strip (1,420 ft at 4,250 altitude with lowish obstacles) and even with the CS prop it is reluctant to loose height if the power is chopped at speeds over about 60 kts. All my approaches from about mid final onwards are at 55 to 60 kts depending on weight and I don't need to do a flat /low approach as it will drop like a rock without power at these speeds.

I would be interested to know what the descent rate is like with the FP prop if you chop the power at 55 kts?

Fin
9A
 
Short

I am using a 1250 foot strip with trees at both ends. The CS prop at 55 to 60 kts with a slip works very well. I am routinely stopping with 3 to 4 hundred feet remaining. I must emphasize that this is with the Anti Splat Aero "Nose Job" installed. This type of approach is murder on the nose strut, and I am positive I would have been on my back already without it. I also did a lot of practice at longer strips before attempting the home strip.
 
N941WR said:
Today a friend posted this video of a Cessna landing on Fisher Island, NY. (Looks like a cool destination.) This runway is 2300? long and with a headwind, it shouldn?t be a problem for anyone.
Click to expand...

Just looked at the linked video, and while it is a great view of the landing, its not Fishers Island. I know that airport well, as I have landed there in everything from a 421 to a Citation II. The approaches are over water for the long runway, so getting it on the end is not a big deal.
 
Two weeks ago, I watched one of those guys with a fan on his back (and a chute), land everytime in the bed of his small Toyota truck. He'd land in the bed, step out off the bumper, and take a few steps to take off again. A 6' truck bed is what I'd call short.. :D

L.Adamson
 
As a student pilot, on my long cross-country, I flew the DA-20 to a 3000' runway with a 700' displaced threshold. I didn't think it was anything dramatic, even given my lack of skill/experience. That's the shortest one I've been on, though I remain a seriously low-time dude tooling around in rented spam cans...
 
N546RV said:
As a student pilot, on my long cross-country, I flew the DA-20 to a 3000' runway with a 700' displaced threshold. I didn't think it was anything dramatic, even given my lack of skill/experience. That's the shortest one I've been on, though I remain a seriously low-time dude tooling around in rented spam cans...
Click to expand...

Pretty much the exact same story as me...plane, length, long XC and all. :)

(A later CFI for a rental checkout thought that it was way to short for a student...and thought it even more bizarre that I was allowed to fly to a private strip (with permission) and that I also stopped for lunch. Oh, well...got my checkout and smiled and nodded.)
 
670'

The original demo tape I got from Van's when I was shopping for a kit showed Van going in and out of the 670' farm strip in an RV-4 (fixed pitch Larry A :) ). I'd say that one is short although he wasn't using near all of it.
 
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Short......that is plenty long enough for most GA singles and many twins.

Here are a couple from downunder :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he5-LPpfZn8

and back in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzizD3N0PBY

OK so you want some real machines then, coz them Savannah's are cheating :p

So an A36 on 2000 feet...and look how much is left.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jWRjYL2kC8

now this is 1250 foot strip, over a set of power lines and inside a set of high tension lines :eek: in a 225HP Deb!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pntPDTWFzI

Enjoy!
 
With my FP 9A I consider any runway less than 2,000' short. However, on my home field with 5,000' runway I often turn off at 1,000'. The key is to fly a short final at below 65 kts. Here is one I did yesterday (minute 21) while wind was calm.

http://youtu.be/AVTtNh8HUrc
 
DCat22 said:
Pretty much the exact same story as me...plane, length, long XC and all. :)

(A later CFI for a rental checkout thought that it was way to short for a student...and thought it even more bizarre that I was allowed to fly to a private strip (with permission) and that I also stopped for lunch. Oh, well...got my checkout and smiled and nodded.)
Click to expand...

OK, this is getting a little uncanny. The reason I picked that particular airport for my XC was because my parents were in town and staying near the airport, and I wanted to take my dad out to lunch for his birthday. So I flew the long leg, chocked the plane, had a nice Italian meal, climbed back in, and flew the other two legs.

It wasn't a private strip for me, though.

:)
 
N941WR said:
Today a friend posted this video of a Cessna landing on Fisher Island, NY. (Looks like a cool destination.) This runway is 2300? long and with a headwind, it shouldn?t be a problem for anyone.

It just cracks me up when people call 2300' a "short runway". Here is a link to where I did my first flight and kept the plane for four years. The only reason I moved was so I could get a better hangar. (The comments on this thread were disabled because the pilot got so much sh#$ from people (not me) about his landing and five mile final.) You can see the 1/2 way marker pass by just as he touches down.

What do you consider a short runway for your RV? (or other plane?)

For me, 1800 is short but I?ve done 1600? with the -9.
Click to expand...

I flew into Fisher Island some time ago but it was not in a RV, it was a Long EZ. With that airplane, the runway was "short". I quit flying canards in favor of the total performance of RV's, it makes such a runway normal operations.

But there's more to it than distance from one end to the other. Recently I helped another pilot in our air park measure the height of some trees and he calculated we have 1500' effective runway, not 2200'. This was assuming clearing the trees with a 3? glide. 1500' can be dicey with a gusty cross wind....one minute you've got a quartering head wind the next a quartering tail wind. I've learned how quick that 1500' is behind you with a tail wind.

On days like today, with gusts of 30 knots across the runway, I don't fly. Take off is OK but landing is work and no fun.

I'm retired and don't do no-fun flying. :)
 
Learned at Hidden Valley here north of Dallas. It's 2200 or so but has a NASTY hill at the top of 35. When you are landing 17 with a whole 10 hrs under your belt it makes you a little squirmish. Trees on both ends to make you happy again...
 
aerhed said:
If you fly a Republic, they are all short.
Click to expand...

An old friend who flew F-105 Wild Weasels in Viet Nam told me that if you built a runway that went clear around the world, Republic would build an airplane that needed every bit of it.:D
 
N546RV said:
As a student pilot, on my long cross-country, I flew the DA-20 to a 3000' runway with a 700' displaced threshold. I didn't think it was anything dramatic, even given my lack of skill/experience. That's the shortest one I've been on, though I remain a seriously low-time dude tooling around in rented spam cans...
Click to expand...

9A0 lumpkin?
 
bkthomps said:
9A0 lumpkin?
Click to expand...

1A0, Dallas Bay...Hixson, TN

Though I've been to Wimpy's for some short-field practice before. It's really fun when you're on final for 15 and there are trees above you on both sides. It's also fun on downwind when you're flying straight towards the mountain and the terrain on the 530 is telling you you're about to die.

:p
 
Finley Atherton said:
Tony,
I have not flown a FP 9 but I operate my 9A with a Hartzell CS prop from my short strip (1,420 ft at 4,250 altitude with lowish obstacles) and even with the CS prop it is reluctant to loose height if the power is chopped at speeds over about 60 kts. All my approaches from about mid final onwards are at 55 to 60 kts depending on weight and I don't need to do a flat /low approach as it will drop like a rock without power at these speeds.

I would be interested to know what the descent rate is like with the FP prop if you chop the power at 55 kts?

Fin
9A
Click to expand...

Fin,

I agree, the real short-field secret for RV9's is a slow approach speed. The difference of rate of descent at 60kts vs 55kts is significant. Maybe as much as 200fpm on mine. My 1.3 Vso is 53kts and at that speed it really likes to descend. My problem is that at 53kts, just a slight pitch down and the speed jumps to 60 very quickly. The C/S prop will help with that. However, as long as I have a nice stabilized approach I can take my first taxiway (1000') without any brake application.
 
Short Field

Hey Allan,

If you really want to practice, come to my strip, and try it with trees at both ends. Its a long way to SC, but we would love to have you. That goes for any RV'er that wants to try it.

Dantzler Plantation
N33 24.69
W080 30.3
 
2 of my old customers here had TU206's with Robertson wings for ranch flyin'. I had to drop one off at melody field in Jackson hole one day. I hadn't driven it in a couple years and got "nervous". I went out to practice first at PNA. First time around on 11 I got stopped dead ON the numbers. Had a big ONE on either side of me. Quit being nervous immediately. You can get them slowed & crank 32-33 inches in & drive around with the AS needle bouncing on the peg. When you get over what you want to land on just pull off throttle & dork it on the tundra tires. Pretty amazing for a Cessna. Better than a Helio actually.
 
Although I hope my skills will one day be good enough for a short mountain landing, I'll be more than happy to have every inch of the 7500ft runway here at KFTW when I start flying my -8. :D
 
mkbreezy said:
Hey Allan,

If you really want to practice, come to my strip, and try it with trees at both ends. Its a long way to SC, but we would love to have you. That goes for any RV'er that wants to try it.

Dantzler Plantation
N33 24.69
W080 30.3
Click to expand...

You need to be careful what you say! I think I may just take you up on that invite! We are going to be back there in a few months and it would be nice to stop, meet you and talk airplane for a bit. Allan:cool:
 
Visit

Love to have you, take a look at dantzlerplantation.org, thats where we live. and the strip is right next to the house.
 
Not Short

But Fun - is X04 Orlando Apopka. It has been years since I flew into this airport, but it is a great airport to practice short and soft field landings. As you come in from the south, you get some awesome (or scary) visual illusions, which make it a challenge. I looks like they have done some improvments to it since I was there, because out 172 use to hang its tips over the side of the runway when we were there back in 2002. Now it is 60' wide and is nearly 4000' long, but it has a hump in the middle.
 
I did my first 15 hours in a 65hp champ on a 2200 ft grass strip with 50 ft trees off of the ends. With myself in an instructor on a hot day there was a bit of pucker factor on takeoff. Landings were never an issue.
 
Lady Lex

910 feet with no obstacles. Piece of cake even without arresting gear. I am routinely doing 7-8 hundred feet over 60 foot obstacles, and the takeoff is shorter than that. The 9's are truly great short field airplanes. (Anti Splat helps)
 
short

after landing...

Captain - Dang! a 150' long runway, whoever designed this thing must have been drunk at the time!!

Co-pilot - Absolutely!! look at the width of this thing!! It must be at least 8000' wide!!
 
Shortest Runway?

I'm not going to say that Catalina was the shortest, but it was by far the most memorable.
 
N941WR said:
It just cracks me up when people call 2300' a "short runway".
Click to expand...

I am jealous of you guys, and a large part of the reason I am here is the short field ability of the RV aircraft. I wish I could get into a 2300 runway. Actually did it once with a 40+ kt direct headwind on the ground. I consider a 3500 runway short and in fact will not go into a 3500 after dark inspite of having 700 hours on my lancair. My home airport is 4500 and going in at night, landing is 1 direction only, typically with a tailwind. It makes me uneasy when the tailwind is strong at all.

We are looking for a plane for my girlfriend and looks like it is going to be an RV, though she wants a HR...
 
My first attempt at making a video. T/O and landing on my short home strip on a lovely spring afternoon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QluTlOsPuCg

Details:
9A with an 0-320 and Hartzell C/S prop.
Anti-Splat brace and leg fairing installed although I have done hundreds of landing here before the Anti Splat.
Light braking
Reshaped nose cone fairing to give extra ground clearance.
Full stall touchdown. For normal operations on this strip I carry a bit more speed in the flare and do not stall at touchdown.

Fin
9A
 
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NICE!!

Fin,

Nice video; looks like a beautiful place. Very happy to see that kind of performance in a 9. I like the airplane shadow landing device you have to show you were the ground is :D

How did you have you camera mounted? Any pictures of it?

Tom
 
That's why.

FORANE said:
I am jealous of you guys, and a large part of the reason I am here is the short field ability of the RV aircraft. I wish I could get into a 2300 runway. ...
Click to expand...

Yep, Steve...I routinely go into our EAA grass strip of 2600' and have been to a humpback strip of 2,000' with my -10!! The humpback is 100' higher in the middle than either end:)...kinda, sorta the reason over 7500 RV's are flying.

Best,
 
Av8torTom said:
Fin,

Nice video; looks like a beautiful place. Very happy to see that kind of performance in a 9. I like the airplane shadow landing device you have to show you were the ground is :D

How did you have you camera mounted? Any pictures of it?

Tom
Click to expand...

Hi Tom,

I copied the camera mounting from Allan Nimmo Post #1 http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=71052
I mounted the camera with two wing tip fairing screws for this video.

Fin
9A
 
Short? Depends on the airplane and the pilot. 1000 is the shortest I've routinely landed on, but that's in the glider. 2000 is my minimum for T&Gs in the CT.

Most LSAs are way overpowered - 100Hp Rotax and 1320 lb for 13.2 lb/hr, but that's at MGTW, and you rarely fly at MGTW. My transition training to the CT was 2400 x 40 (realistically 30', shoulder of the strip was crumbly) at about 3,000 DA and MGTW - no problems.

TODR
 
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