We Can Do Better: A Message from Van's

[Van's Aircraft]

We've noticed some recent sharing of poor customer service experience with Van’s. Businesses almost never say this, but we will: We’re sorry.

The simple truth is that our ordering and fulfillment systems and processes haven't been up to industry standards. Visibility of order status and changes is not always accurate. As a result, we don’t always accomplish what we tell you we’ll do. On top of this, we don’t communicate with you, our fans and customers, as effectively as we should. Or often enough.

That is going to change.

Every day, we’re actively working to improve the situation.

How? First of all, we are in the process of implementing new business tools to improve visibility, efficiency, and accuracy. And while there have been some growing pains, we’re making progress. Not nearly as rapidly as we’d like, but we are heading in the right direction.

A big part of our effort is our transition to Oracle NetSuite—a modern, fully integrated platform that will streamline how we manage orders, inventory, manufacturing, and customer support.

This isn’t just a software upgrade. It’s a full overhaul of outdated systems—a massive project that touches every part of the business, and we’re committed to getting it right. We anticipate going “live” later this year with more streamlined order placement, better internal tracking, and greatly elevated customer communications as the result.

Although it might not always feel like it, we need you to know that our entire team, especially customer service, cares about supporting you—delivering your kits and parts on time and communicating clearly and promptly.

We know we can do better. And we will.

 

[sansoneservices]

Thanks for addressing this and posting

 

[DeltaRomeo]

'ppreciate ya, Mothership. Thanks for the update.
v/r,dr

 

[Mark Dickens]

BRAVO! BRAVO! Thanks for addressing this!

 

[Kyle Boatright]

A big part of our effort is our transition to Oracle NetSuite—a modern, fully integrated platform that will streamline how we manage orders, inventory, manufacturing, and customer support.

We integrated several of our businesses to NetSuite a decade or so ago. It has developed into a great tool for us, so kudos on making a good choice. I'm sure it will greatly benefit the business over the long term.

 

[Ben Ellis]

On top of this, we don’t communicate with you, our fans and customers, as effectively as we should. Or often enough.

May I suggest you use VAF a lot more for this since this is where we gather. It would be great to have you guys chime in often here and know who’s posting from this account. It makes it feel more personable. Good luck with the upgrade. We are all hoping for your continued success.

 

[RV7A Flyer]

It might even be a good idea if Doug created a subforum just for announcements from Van's itself, so they don't get buried in a thread somewhere? I know we can always go to Van's website itself, but most of us don't go there often, whereas we are here all the time. Just a thought.

 

[DeltaRomeo]

It might even be a good idea if Doug created a subforum just for announcements from Van's itself, so they don't get buried in a thread somewhere? I know we can always go to Van's website itself, but most of us don't go there often, whereas we are here all the time. Just a thought.

I'll ask 'em if they want that.
v/r,dr

 

[JimCMI]

May I suggest you use VAF a lot more for this since this is where we gather. It would be great to have you guys chime in often here and know who’s posting from this account. It makes it feel more personable. Good luck with the upgrade. We are all hoping for your continued success. View attachment 89934

I wonder what percentage of Van's active customers are NOT members of VAF....I bet it's single digits. If you don't reach them here, you're not going to reach them anywhere else on the internet.

 

[Pilot8]

Nice job on recognizing a problem and communicating to your customers effectively. I had a manager who said: "If an engineer walks into my office and can't explain the problem, then I know he can't find the solution". Van's is on a good path.

 

[PaulvS]

Kitplanes article with some more detail:

Van’s Aircraft Update: We Let You Down, We’ll Do Better - KITPLANES

CEO Mikael Via and COO Shawl Ell outlined the company’s path forward and spoke about the internal and external issues the company faced.

www.kitplanes.com

 

[Brantel]

Kitplanes article with some more detail:

Van’s Aircraft Update: We Let You Down, We’ll Do Better - KITPLANES

CEO Mikael Via and COO Shawl Ell outlined the company’s path forward and spoke about the internal and external issues the company faced.

www.kitplanes.com

That was almost a year ago….

 

[jackking123]

I would say on store, where there are FAQ you have the answers to questions. I know I posted a few questions... no reply.

With that said Van's customer service has been great as always, filling orders, builders assist...

 

[Taltruda]

I hope their customer service gets better.. three days ago my buddy and I tried placing an order for a Hartzell prop. We called, got stuck on hold for nearly 10 minutes then the call dropped. Repeatedly tries to call wouldn’t even go though. Disappointed to say the least. He since filled out the online order for and offered to pay the Propeller in full, just had a question on which governor and governor bracket, so we needed a live person to answer, and that was 3+ days ago with no response back.

 

[lr172]

I hope their customer service gets better.. three days ago my buddy and I tried placing an order for a Hartzell prop. We called, got stuck on hold for nearly 10 minutes then the call dropped. Repeatedly tries to call wouldn’t even go though. Disappointed to say the least. He since filled out the online order for and offered to pay the Propeller in full, just had a question on which governor and governor bracket, so we needed a live person to answer, and that was 3+ days ago with no response back.

To vans,

netsuite is a good tool (used to work at oracle and that was one of their better acquisitions. Also knew some of the net suite founders) and i am sure will help with the issues related to inventory, ordering and order status along with better production planning. However, it will do nothing to address the issues like posted just above mine. I see many posts with frustration due to slow or completely absent responses to various inquiries; thankfully tech support seems responsive. This is a leadership issue. First you must demand that those responsible actually reply to customers in a timely fashion. If you have staffing shortages, either hire or reprioritize the activities of responsible staff to insure these tasks are accomplished.

I say all this to be constructive, not to complain. All of us here at vaf want you to succeed, but you will not be able to do that for very long without caring for your largest fans in a professional and responsible way. Nothing worse for a business than to have a customer that wants to give you money and you mske it too difficult for them to do so.

 

[SquawkVFR]

My last order got "stuck." I had to call in several times to follow up and request expedited processing and shipping. Every time, the same lady would come back on the phone gasping for breath while explaining to me that she talked to so and so and got the order updated, so it'll ship tomorrow. Called back the next day and same story. Third and fourth days, same thing happened again and again. I feel bad for the lady (wish I could remember her name). She's obviously trying hard, because she's literally running around trying to fix stuff for her customers. Good on Van's for admitting fault and committing to doing better. I love the mothership and often go out of my way to order from you guys even when faster and cheaper alternatives exist.

 

[planenutz]

To vans,

netsuite is a good tool (used to work at oracle and that was one of their better acquisitions. Also knew some of the net suite founders) and i am sure will help with the issues related to inventory, ordering and order status along with better production planning. However, it will do nothing to address the issues like posted just above mine. I see many posts with frustration due to slow or completely absent responses to various inquiries; thankfully tech support seems responsive. This is a leadership issue. First you must demand that those responsible actually reply to customers in a timely fashion. If you have staffing shortages, either hire or reprioritize the activities of responsible staff to insure these tasks are accomplished.

I say all this to be constructive, not to complain. All of us here at vaf want you to succeed, but you will not be able to do that for very long without caring for your largest fans in a professional and responsible way. Nothing worse for a business than to have a customer that wants to give you money and you mske it too difficult for them to do so.

Absolutely on the money, Larry. Having good software to help with orders, sales, production and warehousing is important for sure, but nothing, NOTHING beats the kind of customer service you get from staff who respond to your communications in a timely manner, who are helpful and who provide answers. Vans used to be good at that most basic level of customer service, where you could send somebody and email and if they couldn't help you they would either find the answer or find somebody who could. That's currently not happening. Frankly, their coms have been horrible, patchy and incomplete. I look forward to a positive recovery.

 

[Capt]

The power of the people wins again, well hopefully
Congrats to those that stood I up ready to take the flak

 

[Jonnyb]

I hope their customer service gets better.. three days ago my buddy and I tried placing an order for a Hartzell prop. We called, got stuck on hold for nearly 10 minutes then the call dropped. Repeatedly tries to call wouldn’t even go though. Disappointed to say the least. He since filled out the online order for and offered to pay the Propeller in full, just had a question on which governor and governor bracket, so we needed a live person to answer, and that was 3+ days ago with no response back.

I emailed Vans kit sales over a month ago with a question. Nothing in response even now. Gave up and ordered the kit anyway.

 

[Jerry Fischer]

Nothing beats "Action (results) speak louder than words"...We are ALL pulling for Van's Aircraft to succeed!

 

[Treekiwi]

I have to say, every enquiry I have made to Vans has been responded to in a timely manner, and with good accurate information.
Sorry to hear others have had a different experience.
I'm an owner, not a builder, but I am 110% rooting for their success.

 

[TASEsq]

I just ordered my custom firewall forward order. A very long list of stuff. Some from the rv14 fwd kit and some other cobbled together stuff. My order was handled well via email, was accurate, was packed and shipped within a few weeks and I’ve already got it. Took about a month and a half total.

There were only 7 missing nutplates and 2 backordered parts. They sent the nutplates within a day of me emailing them.

I think you guys are doing well.

 

[Toobuilder]

I wonder what percentage of Van's active customers are NOT members of VAF....I bet it's single digits. If you don't reach them here, you're not going to reach them anywhere else on the internet.

Not true in my experience. Many of the RV pilots I know do not participate on this forum, and some have never even seen it once.

 

[TS Flightlines]

Not true in my experience. Many of the RV pilots I know do not participate on this forum, and some have never even seen it once.

I dont know if this is possible, but who at Vans made the response and is that person going to act as the communicator? If so, please let us know who you are so WE direct direct questions/comments here on VAF to the communcation person. It used to be Greg Hughes, but I feel he's been moved to a different department. Marc Cook? Kindly let us know. Tom

[ed. More than one person at the factory uses the official Van’s account here.
Much like more than one person uses the Garmin ‘G3Xpert’ account, etc.
v/r,dr]

 

[tspear]

To vans,

netsuite is a good tool (used to work at oracle and that was one of their better acquisitions. Also knew some of the net suite founders) and i am sure will help with the issues related to inventory, ordering and order status along with better production planning. However, it will do nothing to address the issues like posted just above mine. I see many posts with frustration due to slow or completely absent responses to various inquiries; thankfully tech support seems responsive. This is a leadership issue. First you must demand that those responsible actually reply to customers in a timely fashion. If you have staffing shortages, either hire or reprioritize the activities of responsible staff to insure these tasks are accomplished.

I say all this to be constructive, not to complain. All of us here at vaf want you to succeed, but you will not be able to do that for very long without caring for your largest fans in a professional and responsible way. Nothing worse for a business than to have a customer that wants to give you money and you mske it too difficult for them to do so.

If your tools are inadequate, it will often take staff much longer to find/retrieve an answer. The result is the staff can more quickly be overwhelmed.
In addition, the current systems from an outside viewpoint, I am willing to bet are Bandaid solutions that have grown in place over the years. Therefore, they likely are a house of cards, and any small mistake will cause it to fall down from a customer service viewpoint. The previous solution was to get around these issues via manual processes/labor.
With the rapid growth Van's has dealt with the past few years, this model is not sustainable, and is likely a significant source of the pain customers are feeling.

With all that said, beyond the basic PR piece above, we have very limited information, so it is all speculation.
But taking the statement at face value: Van's is going to go through a complete process overhaul along with an technology change, this will likely be painful for the staff and the customers. I would expect the ride to be very bumpy for a while.

Tim

 

[Steve]

Not true in my experience. Many of the RV pilots I know do not participate on this forum, and some have never even seen it once.

True. Of the 20 or so RV owners on my airport, I think I'm in the tiny minority of those who visit here regularly.

 

[JimCMI]

True. Of the 20 or so RV owners on my airport, I think I'm in the tiny minority of those who visit here regularly.

But how many of those are actual current Van's customers...ie ordering kits and buying stuff from the webstore? I'll admit to only knowing a handful of RV owners, all of whom are active in building/repairing/modifying their planes, and all of whom are either aware of or active in this group. It may be a blind spot for me as I'm very online.

I could see the older demographic who built their planes 20 years ago not being aware, but who is building a plane today without using the internet, and how would you go looking for Van's info without eventually ending up here?

 

[ravenstar]

I can't say messages like this do much to make me feel better. The only take-away is that they know they've got a problem. I've been patient through the bankruptcy and reorganization, but I have very little tolerance for misinformation combined with hollow "we have to do better" messages, particularly when large sums of my money is involved.

How is this going to address the misinformation on their website? For example, as of March 2025, the lead time on an RV-12iS Avionics kit has been listed as 8 weeks. I ordered a kit in January (when the lead time was also listed as 8 weeks), and was told the next day it was available and full payment was requested which I mailed on the next day. Here we are 5 months later, and I have no kit, and the only word I can get from kits@vansaircraft is that they're working on incorporating a new radio to replace the discontinued Garmin and need time to redesign the brackets and wiring harness. (The Garmin was discontinued in November, so this should have been a known situation at the time I ordered.) So why are they still saying 8 weeks lead time? The answer appears to be "we don't know when we'll ship avionics kits."

If they are serious about doing better, they should start by making sure they're not providing misleading information. Then they can work on providing accurate information. It's a very simple PR issue. Don't know how long something will take? Overestimate the time, and provide updates if you discover it will slip. Customers much prefer to be surprised by shorter lead times instead of being told something is read to ship and then having to wait 5 months.

It feels like it's not just external communication that is breaking down, and one part of the company doesn't know what the other parts are doing. Management needs to get on top of communication internally and externally, and software isn't going to fix that.

I'm sorry, this is more of a rant than anything. I was really optimistic that things were going to get better after the reorganization, but instead of telling us "things are going to change", show us. Please!

 

[lr172]

Absolutely on the money, Larry. Having good software to help with orders, sales, production and warehousing is important for sure, but nothing, NOTHING beats the kind of customer service you get from staff who respond to your communications in a timely manner, who are helpful and who provide answers. Vans used to be good at that most basic level of customer service, where you could send somebody and email and if they couldn't help you they would either find the answer or find somebody who could. That's currently not happening. Frankly, their coms have been horrible, patchy and incomplete. I look forward to a positive recovery.

I spent decades selling enterprise software tools targetted to customer service departments, so spent a lot of time in those groups and understand the dynamics involved. In my experience, these problems are almost universally leadership & culture based and often stem from issues outside their control that block their abilities. First, you must have targets and goals for things like acceptable response times. Second, employees MUST be held accountable for meeting those goals (including methods for assessing performance via customer feedback loops), and third, management must be held accountable for addressing resource issues and roadblocks raised by said employees when they report that the targets cannot be met. Finally there is corporate culture. Leadership ALWAYS sets the tone, whether intentional or not. If employees see that not responding to customers (sometimes lazy, but usually just over-worked) goes without reprimand, they slowly evolve to do the same as a prioritization mechanism. Employees tend to prioritize activities based upon what their mgmt wants. Often this is not clear, so this is inferred by what causes praise vs what causes reprimand and sometimes just through observation. Unclear goals typically leads to meeting very few goals. I suspect Vans is holding back on staffing to get back in the black and that is just a reality they have to deal with. However, in cases like this. it is CRITICAL that they set goals and prioritize them, knowing that they can't do everything.

 

[Ironflight]

True. Of the 20 or so RV owners on my airport, I think I'm in the tiny minority of those who visit here regularly.

I run into MANY RV owners who have either never heard of VAF, or got driven away by other users here for one reason or another (which in my opinion is very sad, and a failure on the part of the community….). Some folks are just ornery enough that they don’t want to “belong”, and others just don’t use the internet for anything. But it would be wrong to assume that all RV owners come here to VAF, as much as you’d like to think that everyone “belongs”. And this isn’t just about VAF - you’d be shocked at how many homebuilders aren’t members of EAA…..

 

[Ironflight]

So…. An observation (not a moderation….)

Van’s writes an apology, and says that they are going to try to do much better.

And then we get a bunch of responses here that continue to bash them for not doing well!!

Anyone see any reason why they should continue to come back to VAF to continue to get bashed?

 

[Mark Dickens]

Kitplanes article with some more detail:

Van’s Aircraft Update: We Let You Down, We’ll Do Better - KITPLANES

CEO Mikael Via and COO Shawl Ell outlined the company’s path forward and spoke about the internal and external issues the company faced.

www.kitplanes.com

I had forgotten about that promise...proof is in the pudding!

 

[Mark Dickens]

Are Mikael Via and Shawl Ell going to be at OSH and engaging with the customers????

 

[DeltaRomeo]

...
Van’s writes an apology, and says that they are going to try to do much better.
And then we get a bunch of responses here that continue to bash them for not doing well!!
.....

Internet being the internet I guess. (Good morning! “What’s good about it….”)

FWIW, I’m pretty dang grateful they occasionally chime in with new info. I was glad to have them reach out and hope they do it again down the road. I can barely keep my fingernails attached to all the moving parts of running this tiny one person web business. My brain would rupture thinking about how many moving parts there are at the factory on an hour by hour basis.

From my seat, having Marc onboard now up there, I’ve noticed a very noticeable uptick in comms between me and the factory. Helps me gets news out more timely, generating smiley face emojis.

v/r,dr

 

[bkervaski]

I'm a 2 x customer, definitely in for the 15 as well, but I also have a relationship outside of that with Vans. After meeting with some of the management recently, here to tell you they are trying very hard to make the right decisions and rebuild the company on stable ground. They are well underway with changes to revamp their customer relations strategy and support. They are fully aware of how they operate now and have a grip on what needs to change. From the outside looking in it seems like they are moving at a snails pace but they aren't.

 

[lr172]

I'm a 2 x customer, definitely in for the 15 as well, but I also have a relationship outside of that with Vans. After meeting with some of the management recently, here to tell you they are trying very hard to make the right decisions and rebuild the company on stable ground. They are well underway with changes to revamp their customer relations strategy and support. They are fully aware of how they operate now and have a grip on what needs to change. From the outside looking in it seems like they are moving at a snails pace but they aren't.

Glad to hear the are proactively addressing this. Very much hope they get it right.

 

[philcam]

A new software system isn’t going to magically solve all of Van’s problems, unfortunately. They gone to what used to be a great company, to a company that just doesn’t care. I’ve been trying to solve a billing problem for weeks. Spent several hours calling and have spoken to multiple employees. Some say they can fix it, some say they can’t. I finally emailed Greg asking him to call me. He didn’t. Instead he had someone else call, and while she was very nice, all she did was say she’d try to fix it (she didn’t) and wasted more of my time.

We’ve all heard the “we will do better” talk before and so far haven’t seen any results.

 

[ravenstar]

So…. An observation (not a moderation….)

Van’s writes an apology, and says that they are going to try to do much better.

And then we get a bunch of responses here that continue to bash them for not doing well!!

Anyone see any reason why they should continue to come back to VAF to continue to get bashed?

I think there's pent up frustration (well, I know I have some) that we've heard this message before but are still seeing very concrete customer service issues. I think the reaction would be very different if it said something along the lines of "we're announcing this change that will improve your experience", even it's it's tiny. You're right, this won't necessarily make them want to come back, but I really hope they stay here and see the things that are bothering customers and address those things quickly. I know I'm guilty of venting some frustration, but I hope they see it and quickly address some really easy things, like removing obviously fictional lead times on their website and mass mailing customers when they can't meet advertised lead times.

It shouldn't be hard to do those two things, and failing to do them really shakes my confidence in the company. I feel like I'm being deliberately misled. I appreciate honesty even when I may not like the answer. Maybe that's not good business practice? I don't know any other way to convey that, having already conversed with them through their email address.

I also think it's useful, even if a bit negative, to see the problems others are having. In isolation after a time it begins to feel like you're the only one being targeted which only adds to the frustration.

I promise I'll post positive experiences and kudos when they're warranted.

 

[DanH]

So…. An observation (not a moderation….)
Van’s writes an apology, and says that they are going to try to do much better.
And then we get a bunch of responses here that continue to bash them for not doing well!!
Anyone see any reason why they should continue to come back to VAF to continue to get bashed?

Made me laugh a little. My Mom was an obedience trainer...supposedly training dogs, but it was just as much about training the owners. The example she liked to use was the case of a dog who didn't always respond when called. Owner gets mad, hollers louder, dog still doesn't come. Eventually dog, who really does wish to please, returns to owner, who then scolds him for not coming in the first place.

Next time, dog does not come when called. All he knows is the last time he tried to please, he got scolded.

 

[N8DAV8R]

But how many of those are actual current Van's customers...ie ordering kits and buying stuff from the webstore? I'll admit to only knowing a handful of RV owners, all of whom are active in building/repairing/modifying their planes, and all of whom are either aware of or active in this group. It may be a blind spot for me as I'm very online.

I could see the older demographic who built their planes 20 years ago not being aware, but who is building a plane today without using the internet, and how would you go looking for Van's info without eventually ending up here?

There is a non-trivial contingency of current builders using other platforms who have rejected VAF due to heavy moderation and the inability to speak critically of "the mothership". The perspective that all builders participate here is a view from inside the bubble.

 

[lr172]

Anyone see any reason why they should continue to come back to VAF to continue to get bashed?

Yes.

If they truly want to fix their customer service issues, they MUST be getting direct feedack from said customers, otherwise they have no idea if their efforts are working. When things aren't going well and trying to fix it, you NEED customer feedback as well as to bond with those customers and re-gain their trust. Yes, that will require you to experience "customer venting." It is all part of the healing process and how relationships get mended. Simply apologizing and committing to doing better is not enough. It is a fine first step, but not the final solution.

To be clear here I am not bashing Vans, just dealing with the reality of their current situation and pointing out potential methods for repair. I truly want them to succeed

 

[DeltaRomeo]

There is a non-trivial contingency of current builders using other platforms who have rejected VAF due to heavy moderation and the inability to speak critically of "the mothership". The perspective that all builders participate here is a view from inside the bubble.

“Heavy moderation”

Nate,
I’d respectfully offer that 99% of 'moderation' here is moving posts into the correct subforum - as owner/admin I’ve seen me do it tens of thousands of times. Also, deleting obvious spammers and scammers. The other 1% is posting rules violations (politics, etc).

Go browse the Bankruptcy subforum for several hundred thousand posts and replies critical of the mothership. That subforum was created by me the day the factory declared BK.

I get it…..VAF ain’t for everyone. 80/20 rule - 20% aren’t going to like it no matter what. I’m OK with that. I think that’s what makes it special…that it’s not the wild west like other platforms. I cheerlead for the 80.

Same 80/20 rule on any news from the factory. 80 say thanks and 20 say ‘yeah, but’. Internet interneting.

RVs are just bass fishing in the sky. And bass fishing forums have the same dynamics. 80/20 all around.

XOXO,
Hitler ;^)

 

[Mark Dickens]

Made me laugh a little. My Mom was an obedience trainer...supposedly training dogs, but it was just as much about training the owners. The example she liked to use was the case of a dog who didn't always respond when called. Owner get mad, hollers louder, dog still doesn't come. Eventually dog, who really does wish to please, returns to owner, who then scolds him for not coming in the first place.

Next time, dog does not come when called. All he knows is the last time he tried to please, he got scolded.

Come on, Vans is a commercial entity, not a dog that gets his feelings hurt...I've run my own business for 23 years and have been yelled at for things that were our fault and things we had no control over (like a head on collision between two semis, one carrying an order)...if I let my emotions control my responses, I'd have been out of business in a few weeks. You learn and get better at anticipating issues so they don't become customer service problems.

 

[N8DAV8R]

“Heavy moderation”

Nate,
I’d respectfully offer that 99% of moderation here is moving posts into the correct subforum - as owner/admin I’ve seen me do it tens of thousands of times. The other 1% is posting rules violations (politics, etc).

Go browse the Bankruptcy subforum for several hundred thousand posts and replies critical of the mothership.

I get it…..VAF ain’t for everyone. 80/20 rule - 20% aren’t going to like it no matter what. I’m OK with that. I think that’s what makes it special…that it’s not the wild west like other platforms. I cheerlead for the 80%.

Same 80/20 rule on any news from the factory. 80 say thanks and 20 say ‘yeah, but’. Internet being internet.

Sincerely,
Hitler ;^)

To be honest I was afraid of this reaction and considered saying a little bit more, but I wanted to avoid making the comment about myself. Since it got your attention and you have adressed me I guess I'll include what I left out.

I mentioned the users of other platforms only because it's a fact. That's the perception and there are people out there who have come to that conclusion. I'm aware of it, have been 'moderated' myself once or twice in the past, but will continue to be a contributor here. I consider VAF to be an invaluable resource that was critical in getting my projected completed. I'm here, and I try to contribute and give back wherever I can.

Back on the subject, I hope that the current attempts to improve operations at HQ are successful. It feels like Groundhog Day.

 

[scsmith]

I wonder what percentage of Van's active customers are NOT members of VAF....I bet it's single digits. If you don't reach them here, you're not going to reach them anywhere else on the internet.

I don't know. I ordered and received my kit. I was half way done building before I stumbled onto VAF. I wished I had known about it sooner, but I was in a bubble all by myself, except for a few other trusted builders and A&P friends. That was all 18 years ago of course. I don't even recall now how I first found out about VAF. So you might be surprised how many builders are NOT here.

 

[Mark Dickens]

It's great that they are going to implement some new software, but from my perspective, the issues are people related. Is the new system going to answer the telephone? Is the new system going to pick, pack and ship the orders? This isn't going to be fixed with a system...its management related

 

[DeltaRomeo]

To be honest I was afraid of this reaction and considered saying a little bit more, but I wanted to avoid making the comment about myself. Since it got your attention and you have adressed me I guess I'll include what I left out.

I mentioned the users of other platforms only because it's a fact. That's the perception and there are people out there who have come to that conclusion. I'm aware of it, have been 'moderated' myself once or twice in the past, but will continue to be a contributor here. I consider VAF to be an invaluable resource that was critical in getting my projected completed. I'm here, and I try to contribute and give back wherever I can.

Back on the subject, I hope that the current attempts to improve operations at HQ are successful. It feels like Groundhog Day.

Thanks for the feedback Nate. Appreciated!

Every few months a user gets locked down for refusing to stop (for example) injecting politics, wars, promoting their biz as a non-advertiser, etc (they usually get about five warnings - I’m not trying to be a monster). When it eventually occurs I know I’m in for a wave of criticism on other platforms, as that user inevitably ends up there and I’m their target of venting. Still get angry emails occasionally from them (I forward them to friends who enjoy reading my getting pummeled). Comes with the gig.

I'm glad you got your project completed and I hope you enjoy it for several decades! And like you, I hope the factory comes out of all this a shining example of how to overcome adversity.

The new factory news post here has over a thousand views in the last 12 hours, so at least a few are seeing it (the goal).

 

[RogerH]

It's great that they are going to implement some new software, but from my perspective, the issues are people related. Is the new system going to answer the telephone? Is the new system going to pick, pack and ship the orders? This isn't going to be fixed with a system...its management related

Spot on!

Having bought a completed RV-4 several years ago so I don't have a "dog in this fight" but I'll offer an observation from a recent Home Depot visit that does relate.

When I asked multiple HD personnel a question, the response I received was, "don't know, let me check the app". In the past in similar situations experienced HD personnel could answer without the web assistance.

Software is good, more power to Vans if the new software helps, but that only goes so far.

 

[bertschb]

There is a non-trivial contingency of current builders using other platforms who have rejected VAF due to heavy moderation and the inability to speak critically of "the mothership".

I wouldn't know about folks using other platforms but I see at least a dozen posts every day from people speaking critically of Vans. I think it's been 18 months or so since I saw a post get deleted for bashing Vans and that was during the bankruptcy and the post was pretty out of line (IMO). I'm not saying other posts haven't been deleted. Just saying I read lots and lots of negative comments about Vans customer service, inaccurate/lengthy lead times, etc.

 

[rolivi]

From under the bridge: I'm an internet troll. It amuses me in some way. I've been banned for life from more than one aviation related site, so I know a little about moderation. That is to say, being moderated, not practicing moderation.

Sumthin' to consider: This thread was started by Vans. A company I, like others, rely on because I own/fly a plane that someone built and I later acquired. The negativy to the message has been allowed to stand. And the negativity about VAF has been allowed to stand. That doesn't read like "over-moderation" in my tiny troll mind.

Nuthin' is perfect.