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Vans RV-12 SLSA

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timbopotamus

I'm New Here
Hi all, I'm new to this board. My name is Tim and I'm currently a career 2.0 guy working toward PPL, with the intention of potentially going to ATP. I am considering buying a new RV-12 SLSA with the IFR Trainer equipment in it, but without IMC capability. I am trying to figure out:

1. If I purchased the IFR Trainer (but not IMC capability) aircraft, would that be able to be upgraded in the future to be IMC capable and legal? I know the pitot tube needs to be removed from the spinner, a heated pitot tube to the wing, and a second alternator.
2. Are there any other necessary modifications besides the pitot and alternator?
3. Would that need to be done by an LSRM or A&P, or would I be able to do that?
4. Are the necessary parts available from Vans?
5. Then after completion, would it be able to be re-certified to be IMC legal?

Any guidance or advice is greatly appreciated, as I know I have a lot to learn.

Tim
 
timbopotamus said:
Hi all, I'm new to this board. My name is Tim and I'm currently a career 2.0 guy working toward PPL, with the intention of potentially going to ATP. I am considering buying a new RV-12 SLSA with the IFR Trainer equipment in it, but without IMC capability. I am trying to figure out:

1. If I purchased the IFR Trainer (but not IMC capability) aircraft, would that be able to be upgraded in the future to be IMC capable and legal? I know the pitot tube needs to be removed from the spinner, a heated pitot tube to the wing, and a second alternator.
2. Are there any other necessary modifications besides the pitot and alternator?
3. Would that need to be done by an LSRM or A&P, or would I be able to do that?
4. Are the necessary parts available from Vans?
5. Then after completion, would it be able to be re-certified to be IMC legal?

Any guidance or advice is greatly appreciated, as I know I have a lot to learn.

Tim
Click to expand...

Most of these questions are not really nailed down just yet. The expectation is that Van's will publish the upgrade paths and approval but it's not a guarantee until it happens. Whatever Van's *intends* to do, they also need to execute on it. Right now they struggle to support the fleet with basic parts, not to mention a whole bundle of upgrades.

1 - The regulations are going to allow this, it will require action on Van's part. They will need to document the necessary upgrades, and revised documentation at a minimum.
2 - Entirely up to Van's since the SLSA will need revisions to POH and limitations. You'll have to do it Van's way. From a regulatory perspective the pitot and alternator changes are unlikely to be required, just the navigation equipment necessary to fly the procedures.
3 - Again up to Van's but there is no reason to think they would require anything more than an LSRM.
4 - TBD. Everything is rumors and 'coming soon' so far.
5 - "re-certified" is nebulous, people mean different things with that. There will be paperwork to do. You will not need a new airworthiness inspection but you will need Van's to publish certain documents and approvals for the SLSA. Assuming they do execute on the upgrade options, Van's will most likely be leading the industry with the practical implantation of adding IMC approval.
 
timbopotamus said:
Hi all, I'm new to this board. My name is Tim and I'm currently a career 2.0 guy working toward PPL, with the intention of potentially going to ATP. I am considering buying a new RV-12 SLSA with the IFR Trainer equipment in it, but without IMC capability. I am trying to figure out:

1. If I purchased the IFR Trainer (but not IMC capability) aircraft, would that be able to be upgraded in the future to be IMC capable and legal? I know the pitot tube needs to be removed from the spinner, a heated pitot tube to the wing, and a second alternator.
2. Are there any other necessary modifications besides the pitot and alternator?
3. Would that need to be done by an LSRM or A&P, or would I be able to do that?
4. Are the necessary parts available from Vans?
5. Then after completion, would it be able to be re-certified to be IMC legal?

Any guidance or advice is greatly appreciated, as I know I have a lot to learn.

Tim
Click to expand...
1. A heated pitot tube is not an IFR requirement. For the type of IFR you would encounter in a -12 the heated pitot isn't necessary anyway.
2. The -current version of the -12 has the Rotax 912iS which produces more than enough electrical power.
3. If SLSA you would need Vans approval to make a change such as this.
4. There isn't anything extra that Vans would supply. You just need to add a navigator device such as the Garmin GPS175.
5. With MOSAIC you would need to have your Airworthiness Certificate updated then update your Pilot Operating Handbook and change the sticker on your panel that prohibits flight into IMC.
 
Amadeus said:
1. A heated pitot tube is not an IFR requirement. For the type of IFR you would encounter in a -12 the heated pitot isn't necessary anyway.
2. The -current version of the -12 has the Rotax 912iS which produces more than enough electrical power.
3. If SLSA you would need Vans approval to make a change such as this.
4. There isn't anything extra that Vans would supply. You just need to add a navigator device such as the Garmin GPS175.
5. With MOSAIC you would need to have your Airworthiness Certificate updated then update your Pilot Operating Handbook and change the sticker on your panel that prohibits flight into IMC.
Click to expand...

I'm just trying to clarify, not object. All of this other than 5 is true with respect to an ELSA. The question is very specifically asked about an SLSA. For some people seeing both answers in the same place only muddies the water.

With 5, you would not need to update the AW cert. You *might* need to update your operating limitations but it's unlikely, most of the ELSA op limitations allow IFR/IMC with the appropriate equipment. You would need to change the POH and stickers, but again can only do this if it's an ELSA.
 
I left out one thing that's worth keeping in mind. I'm working with a good friend and CFII on this same question, probably for some of the same reasons. Trying to anticipate how this rule change plays out while also airplane shopping with a -12is at the top of the list.

The important thing to keep in mind with the SLSA is that you will need Van's to take some undefined action in order to legally fly IMC. The regs will eventually allow this but until Van's takes action specific to upgrading existing SLSA there is some risk that you don't have a legal SLSA path. One option would be to switch your SLSA over to ELSA. You would get new operating limitations that would allow you to roll your own IFR solution. You could do this starting with an IFR equipped SLSA right now, this would require an inspection with a DAR but is otherwise a matter of paperwork and no additional equipment is needed.

This is a little bit of mitigation against the risk of Van's not publishing an upgrade path. There are of course some drawbacks to ELSA if your intention is to give instruction in the aircraft. You didn't really mention your intent there, and it's a different rabbit hole that is outside the scope of your original question.
 
N8DAV8R said:
2 - Entirely up to Van's since the SLSA will need revisions to POH and limitations. You'll have to do it Van's way. From a regulatory perspective the pitot and alternator changes are unlikely to be required, just the navigation equipment necessary to fly the procedures.
Click to expand...
Amadeus said:
1. A heated pitot tube is not an IFR requirement. For the type of IFR you would encounter in a -12 the heated pitot isn't necessary anyway.
Click to expand...
While traditionally these statements are true, it's my understanding the situation is a little different for SLSA. An SLSA will need to conform to ASTM standards.

This is likely covered in ASTM F3768-25: Standard Specification for IFR Operations in IMC for a Light-Sport Aircraft. Unfortunately, you have to pay to view this document, so I haven't seen it yet. But based off my conversation with Van's and their own website (https://www.vansaircraft.com/rv-12is-slsa/operation-and-training/), "There are additional requirements to meet the ASTM standards that underpin this approval, including adequate electrical capacity and a heated pitot head, among other things."
 
rv12is said:
While traditionally these statements are true, it's my understanding the situation is a little different for SLSA. An SLSA will need to conform to ASTM standards.

This is likely covered in ASTM F3768-25: Standard Specification for IFR Operations in IMC for a Light-Sport Aircraft. Unfortunately, you have to pay to view this document, so I haven't seen it yet. But based off my conversation with Van's and their own website (https://www.vansaircraft.com/rv-12is-slsa/operation-and-training/), "There are additional requirements to meet the ASTM standards that underpin this approval, including adequate electrical capacity and a heated pitot head, among other things."
Click to expand...

Very good point. I have heard similar and did not consider that change in my comments, but did have it in mind in the bucket of 'we gotta wait and see'.

As I understand things from various sources, those standards are getting very close to a final draft after a fairly recent round of comments from the stakeholders. This is a likely outcome.

This is also interesting in that it's a very 'visible' instance of a safety standard for LSA that is higher than TC aircraft.
 
I recently was contacted by a member of Van's RV-12is SLSA sales team, as a 2nd follow up to my request for info from last Fall.

They have a detailed plan that addresses many of the questions in this thread.

They emailed me information about their plans and their leadtimes. The emails had standard disclaimers about the info being only for the recipient, so I will not share details here.

For anyone who is curious, I believe they will make the info public relatively soon, ie weeks.

For anyone who wants to make a purchase decision, I would suggest contacting them via their contact form, with your timeframe.

www.vansaircraft.com

Contact the RV-12iS SLSA Team - Van's Aircraft Total Performance RV Kit Planes

www.vansaircraft.com www.vansaircraft.com
 
timbopotamus said:
Hi all, I'm new to this board. My name is Tim and I'm currently a career 2.0 guy working toward PPL, with the intention of potentially going to ATP. I am considering buying a new RV-12 SLSA with the IFR Trainer equipment in it, but without IMC capability.
Click to expand...
Overarching question though: What is driving the requirement for an S-LSA? If it's "I plan to do instruction in it" then fair enough, though there's a much larger discussion to be had about whether that's a good idea given what training aircraft go through.

If it's "I want a cheap aircraft I can build time in" then you can do all this in an E-LSA. You'll have a much larger pool of aircraft to choose from immediately, and the money you save can go towards shoving a GPS175 into any of them. If you want to go further in making an E-LSA RV-12 better-equipped for IMC, the Monkworkz generator that's being fielded in the '26 RV-12is S-LSAs should bolt right on once you remove the metal plug on the back of the gearbox. There's been several people who have successfully moved the pitot out to the wing in their -12 as well.

Personally, if the rules around Sport Pilot/medicals get changed such that I would be able to get an instrument rating, I'm not sure I'd even bother doing a heated pitot install, since the only IMC I'd ever be flying in would be to blast through the marine layer in the Bay Area that tends to hang around in the summers. Any weather beyond that is going to be quite uncomfortable given the wing loading.
 
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"the Monkworkz generator that's being fielded in the '26 RV-12is S-LSAs should bolt right on once you remove the metal plug on the back of the gearbox."

Does anyone know if this is correct?
Do the current 912iS engines have the Rotax 912iS vacuum pump drive retrofit kit (part 881690) covered by the metal plug?

We are looking into the upgrade to IFR now for our school aircraft and it will have the Dynon Heated Pitot.

Official Part from the BRP-Rotax Illustrated Parts Catalog (IPC)​

  • Vacuum Pump Drive Retrofit Kit: Part number 881690(covers items 1-10 in chapter 37-10-00). This is the complete drive assembly kit (often called the "Vacuum Drive Kit" or "Vacuum Pump Drive Retrofit Kit" by suppliers). It includes:
    • Drive sleeve (847771)
    • Vacuum pump gear (22T) (834245)
    • Oil seal (831265)
    • Needle sleeve (232925)
    • Ball bearing (832362 or 832363, depending on revision)
    • Attachment flange (810170)
    • Allen screw (941527)
    • Studs, lock washers, and nuts for mounting

1774343612518.png
 
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