What's new
Van's Air Force

The definitive Van's Aircraft support community! Buying, building or flying an RV? Join our exclusive family of mentors and enthusiasts!

Van's Now Offering E-MAG Ignitions

Van's Aircraft

Van's Aircraft

Active Member
Sponsor
Advertiser
The E-MAG line of electronic ignitions should be familiar to most RV builders and owners. Under Hartzell Engine Technologies, new configurations of retrofit kits are now available.

Each kit, which includes both single- and dual-mag replacements, includes everything needed for the change from magnetos, including drive gear for the impulse-coupled side, replacement engine studs for when you remove the impulse adapter plate, and a bunch more stuff.

Van's is offering six configurations now for 15% off MSRP, but only for a limited time.

The configurations are:

O/IO-320/360 (Short Reach) Single E-MAG Set

O/IO-320/360 (Short Reach) Dual E-MAG Set

IO-390/360 (Long Reach) Single E-MAG Set

IO-390/360 (Long Reach) Dual E-MAG Set

O/IO-540 Single E-MAG Set

O/IO-540 Dual E-MAG Set

Please note that the discount is applied in the shopping cart, the prices displayed on the main product page are MSRP.
 
Nice to see new possibilities but by reading the description I am not sure if I understood the following statement correctly :
The manufacturer requires a core return of the removed magneto(s) within 12 months of delivery. [...] .

Does that mean :
1) There will be a credit provided once the removed magnetos are returned and if so, how much ?
2) The 15% discount already takes into account that a core will be returned --> basically meaning the core or returned mag is valued at 15% of the PMAG MSRP.

Is it really a retrofit kit or more of a "trade program".

Maybe I am just reading it wrong.
 
One perceived advantage of E-MAG is it starts easier than the legacy magneto. Given the huge price increase of EMAG after Hartzell owns the company, is there any justification of switching to EMAG if you are using the legacy magneto?

Given the current pricing, I would probably keep the legacy magnetos system.
 
PhatRV said:
One perceived advantage of E-MAG is it starts easier than the legacy magneto. Given the huge price increase of EMAG after Hartzell owns the company, is there any justification of switching to EMAG if you are using the legacy magneto?

Given the current pricing, I would probably keep the legacy magnetos system.
Click to expand...
With dual Pmags, my engine started like a car hot or cold. Was the biggest game changer for me.
 
Couple more advantages:

Ease of setting/changing timing
Better LOP operations (by most accounts)
Use of autmotive plugs which are cheap
 
I have dual E-MAGS on an O-360 in my RV-9A. Previously I was flying a Grumman Tiger, also O-360 powered, with two legacy mags, one impulse coupled. The E-MAG bird starts more easily (never a problem), idles at a lower RPM, and idles more smoothly. I can operate the engine LOP, whereas the standard mags wouldn't really allow that on the Tiger.

The downside is cost, and longevity. The latest units have a 500hr shaft inspection for axial play. Anecdotally, VAF users are reporting roughly 1 in 2 PMags needs to their bearings overhauled at this mark. It may be lower as I suspect many users have the older bearing stack. This service currently costs the same as a 500hr mag inspection ($585). If I currently had a pair of standard mags on my engine, I would probably upgrade to a single E-MAG and leave the non-impulse coupled mag alone.

Additionally, if installing E-MAG's, I highly recommend installing a PMag Controller from Engine Bridge. For my engine, I've lowered the default base timing to ~25 deg (From the base setting of 27 deg at TDC), and limited max advance to ~31 deg from the default of 33 deg. Both have resulted in noticeably cooler CHT's.
 
2 years ago I bought my Emags before they sold out. They were $2200 each with wires, plug adapters and gear.

On mt RV8 with O-360-A1A it starts like butter, runs smoother and won’t cost me 2K every 500 hours for plugs and overhaul. Field repair (plugs and wires) is a trip to the auto parts store…🤷‍♂️
 
Brantel said:
With dual Pmags, my engine started like a car hot or cold. Was the biggest game changer for me.
Click to expand...
My first experience with the six-cylinder P-Mags is in the Rocket we’re building. The motor had been pickled for 25 years - put the PMags on, timed them, gave the engine a few seconds of prime and it fired on the FIRST blade…..
 
Pat Dayman said:
2 years ago I bought my Emags before they sold out. They were $2200 each with wires, plug adapters and gear.

On mt RV8 with O-360-A1A it starts like butter, runs smoother and won’t cost me 2K every 500 hours for plugs and overhaul. Field repair (plugs and wires) is a trip to the auto parts store…🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
From my experience avg 500 hr. OH cost of mags is around $600 ea. (the same as Pmag),.
Standard aviation plugs normally last 1000 hrs, fine wires will go 2000 hrs.
Cost to replace auto plugs every 100 hrs ads up (10 sets of auto plugs for 1 set of aviation plugs).
I'll let someone else do the math.
 
Last edited:
Hmmm. Spruce lists a single P-mag 114 @ $2335. Out of stock. Of course. Vans sells a kit with all the goods for $2711 plus a core return. $375 difference plus the core (~$500). Can you buy all the goods for $875? Plug wires, plugs, adapters, etc. I suspect yes, but haven't done that math. That drive gear is pricey. Maybe there's a market for really trashed mags as trade in cores? It doesn't say they have to be viable cores. Play their game.

Is this like Daylight Savings Time? They cut the bottom off a blanket, sew it to the top and convince me it's a bigger blanket?

Another option. I bought a new engine out of warranty in crate. I bought the two P-mags and sold the two unused mags for a fair price. All parties happy.

I'm disappointed and sad for those who want them. Hartzel profit.
 
Walt said:
From my experience avg 500 hr. OH cost of mags is around $600 ea. (the same as Pmag),.
Standard aviation plugs normally last 1000 hrs, fine wires will go 2000 hrs.
Cost to replace auto plugs every 100 hrs ads up (10 sets of auto plugs for 1 set of aviation plugs).
I'll let someone else do the math.
Click to expand...
Fyi, i have ei on both planes (neither are pmags). I run my plugs (std nickel) about 800-1000 hours. Not sure where this change the auto plugs every year thing came from. Totally unnecessary. They do wear more quickly than in auto engines and do need to be gapped every 100 hours.
 
scard said:
Just as excited as I was about my P-mags (19yrs ago!), I'm now more in love with my Bendix mags on the new bird...
Click to expand...
Scott, after so much experience with the Pmags in your 9A, why are you now "in love" with the idea of Bendix mags for your 8A? Inquiring minds want to know..
 
We got clarification from Hartzell Engine Technologies on the current E-MAG offer through Van's: There is no requirement for a core return. If you want to put your mags back into the ecosystem, you're welcome to send them to Quality Aircraft Accessories. But it's not a requirement. Also, we were never including a core charge in the price.

There also may be some confusion about the drive gear included in these kits. Each one includes a drive gear. For the single set, there's the one drive gear you'll need for the impulse-coupled side. For a dual set, there's that same drive gear but not a second since you can re-use the gear from the non-impulse side.
 
PhatRV said:
One perceived advantage of E-MAG is it starts easier than the legacy magneto. Given the huge price increase of EMAG after Hartzell owns the company, is there any justification of switching to EMAG if you are using the legacy magneto?

Given the current pricing, I would probably keep the legacy magnetos system.
Click to expand...
That is not the topic here and there is so much written on EI vs standard fixed timing Magnetos. To answer your question, absolutely switch or absolutely keep the Magneto. Again not going to repeat all the info out there but:

1) Electronic Ignition in general does improve starting, idle and high altitude economy (a), and does not required the same reoccurring inspections of magnetos (b).

(a) - the EI really shins at low % power best achieved by flying high with WOT (less pumping losses in engine). If you fly around the airport below 4000 msl with 70% power or higher, magneto will work fine. The EI savings can be 4% (2% to 6%) lower fuel burn, at lower power settings achieved by flying at or above 6500 ft, higher the better (not withstanding winds aloft).

(b) As an experimental you don't have to inspect your magnetos (correct me if I am wrong but EAB is not typed and AD's don't apply). People will chime in EMAG recommends pulling it off engine every annual and check bearing wear. Again books have been written, it;s a nothing burger. Very easy check and many frankly don't do do the check without issue. If there is an issue it will become apparent by the maintenance fault light on unit. Many put 1000's of hours on the unit with same bearing. Some get less due to engine, prop combo and hot rodding engine due to vibrations I recall. If a new bearing is needed, changing the bearing WAS A LOW COST SERVICE BY EMAG (Brad era) . Is that still the case ???????

????? My concern, will Hartzell replace my bearing if needed for a reasonable price (Brad was very fair). Or will Hartzell force me into a new Hartzell EMAG? Don't ask questions you can't stand the answer. Brad indicated to me the legacy units were repairable as always. Anyone have good news here?

I'd call Hartzell but.... Not to be negative I am sure the person you talk to will be nice, but equally sure that person will know a tiny fraction about the product that Brad [who started EMAG and involved in the design, with a small competent technical staff] does. That "customer service" agent will read from a script and be an order taker with no deep knowledge is my experience with other companies customer service. Well meaning but not a lot of help. Once you send your legacy PMAG in will they say, "Sorry we can't repair, you have to buy a new one. Will give you 100% off. " Hope I am wrong. I hope they do repair legacy units for a reasonable price.

I am not abandoning ship yet. There are other fish in the sea, sticking with nautical analogies. Ha ha. Bottom line, plenty of EI's on the market and not buying new PMAGS, for a repair. I will go from EMAG fanboy to not. PMAG's are very modular, circuit board, dynamo, high tension coil, bearings, all can be serviced, repaired or replaced. Brad charged me nominal fee to upgrade my potted boards (original design). If the worse happens and Hartzell forces legacy PMAG owners to buy verses repairs I will not do it. If that happens, may be an entrepreneur, an independent repair shop will be repairing and upgrading existing PMAGs. Nothing stopping repair by 3rd party on a non type certified part for an EAB. Hartzell lawyers may say no?

New legislation for "RIGHT TO REPAIR" has been passed. The law compels manufacturers to provide independent repair shops and consumers with parts, tools, and diagnostic software. This trend by manufactures tp stop repair of products, cars, electronics was a threat to consumers wallets. Will Hartzell sell bearings, coils, dynamo, bearings as user serviceable parts? Doubt it. Are these parts off the shelf? I know the coil is from a Ford. The dynamo? Bearings? The board is proprietary, but can discrete components, resistor, capacitor, transistor be replaced? I think yes. Will someone one make a new board that fits and works similarly? EI is not rocket surgery or brain engineering. :) I'm not sending my PMAG to Hartzell. I am not sure Hartzell makes GREAT PROPS, but their other acquisition was plane-power line alternators Hartzell. There is a track record. Hope this acquisition will be seamless and customers will get the same quality service under Brad.

PS I bought two PMAG used with gears for $1200 years ago. I spent another $500 on wires, spark plugs, plug adapters, and sending them to EMAG as a precaution, for inspection and upgraded circuit boards (replacing two earlier potted boards for later non potted version, for the price of one). I was very grateful. The Hartzell price, $5000 grand for two (no mention of gears, wires, plugs, plug adapters). Oh. That is a lot more. I'm good at math as you see. Ha ha.
 
Last edited:
Van's Aircraft said:
The E-MAG line of electronic ignitions should be familiar to most RV builders and owners. Under Hartzell Engine Technologies, new configurations of retrofit kits are now available.

Each kit, which includes both single- and dual-mag replacements, includes everything needed for the change from magnetos, including drive gear for the impulse-coupled side, replacement engine studs for when you remove the impulse adapter plate, and a bunch more stuff.

Van's is offering six configurations now for 15% off MSRP, but only for a limited time.

The configurations are:

O/IO-320/360 (Short Reach) Single E-MAG Set

O/IO-320/360 (Short Reach) Dual E-MAG Set

IO-390/360 (Long Reach) Single E-MAG Set

IO-390/360 (Long Reach) Dual E-MAG Set

O/IO-540 Single E-MAG Set

O/IO-540 Dual E-MAG Set

Please note that the discount is applied in the shopping cart, the prices displayed on the main product page are MSRP.
Click to expand...

Do you sell just the Harness for the spark plugs?
Thanks
 
When I received the letter from Vans' I answered them:
Hi.
Thank you for your offer.
It came tooooo late...
a couple months ago I replaced my old LASAR Magnetos system with a new electronic magnetos.
In order to supply reliable power, I made a DC COMBINER board.
This board combines two dc sources: the main A/C 12 Volts and a Back Up battery (LiFePo4 Battery 4AH) for continuous operation of both magnetos.
Since the operational current consumption of each magneto is about 0.7 A, (total of 1.4A) it is possible to continue flying for almost two hours on the back up battery!
Attached are the schematics and a picture of the PC board assembled.
You can use it for free if you like.
Ariel Arielly
RV8A S/N 80295
4X-OAA
(600 hours)"
 

Attachments

ariel_arielly said:
Since the operational current consumption of each magneto is about 0.7 A, (total of 1.4A) it is possible to continue flying for almost two hours on the back up battery!
Click to expand...
That seems low for EI. I have always believed they were about double that. Have you confirmed those numbers? It is difficult to find the avg current, as the coil draw starts quite high and quickly falls to a low # over a few Mmilliseconds, then repeats. Coil size makes a difference and you didn't mention which system you have.
 
Van's Aircraft said:
Actually, the package price we're offering includes everything. Necessary drive gear, plugs, wires, adapters, gaskets, replacement studs. It's pretty well spelled out on our webstore.
Click to expand...
I just ordered my dual set. What pushed me over the fence was the fact that everything I need is all there to install it. I was just talking to an A&P buddy last week who is installing PMAGs on another RV-8. He wasn't aware he needed to change from the Long studs to short studs.... so now they wait for them to arrive.

Thanks for offering these as a one-stop shop package!
 
lr172 said:
That seems low for EI. I have always believed they were about double that. Have you confirmed those numbers? It is difficult to find the avg current, as the coil draw starts quite high and quickly falls to a low # over a few Mmilliseconds, then repeats. Coil size makes a difference and you didn't mention which system you have.
Click to expand...
Hi. This text will answer your questions (received from Lycoming) . Read the technical material:
Our most popular option that customers choose for the factory non-certified Vans engines would be the E Mag which is a self powering electronic ignition with variable timing and uses automotive style spark plugs. Lycoming produces the EIS which is a fixed timing electronic ignition which is designed to replace a Slick magneto using the same harness and spark plugs. The EIS is manufactured in partnership with Surefly who produces their own version which would be another option if you would like their version which is capable of variable timing.



LYCOMING EIS

www.lycoming.com www.lycoming.com

emagair.com

Home - E-MAG Electronic Ignition

introducing e-mag
emagair.com emagair.com

www.surefly.net

Aircraft Electronic Ignition | SureFly

Replace your old aircraft magneto with an electronic ignition from SureFly. Save fuel and reduce maintenance costs.
www.surefly.net www.surefly.net
 
ariel_arielly said:
Hi. This text will answer your questions (received from Lycoming) . Read the technical material:
Our most popular option that customers choose for the factory non-certified Vans engines would be the E Mag which is a self powering electronic ignition with variable timing and uses automotive style spark plugs. Lycoming produces the EIS which is a fixed timing electronic ignition which is designed to replace a Slick magneto using the same harness and spark plugs. The EIS is manufactured in partnership with Surefly who produces their own version which would be another option if you would like their version which is capable of variable timing.



LYCOMING EIS

www.lycoming.com www.lycoming.com

emagair.com

Home - E-MAG Electronic Ignition

introducing e-mag
emagair.com emagair.com

www.surefly.net

Aircraft Electronic Ignition | SureFly

Replace your old aircraft magneto with an electronic ignition from SureFly. Save fuel and reduce maintenance costs.
www.surefly.net www.surefly.net
Click to expand...
And I'd like to add this:

SPECS & DATA​

Solid State Electronics

Minimal moving parts – input shaft, two sealed bearing, and oil seal

Wasted Spark system

Aviation spark plugs – gapped .022 to .035

Slick style harness – Shielded aviation harness

Input voltage 8.5-30.0 VDC*

Avg. Current @2700 600mA (4 Cyl.), 1.1A ( 6 cyl.)
Up to 38 degrees Ignition advance – RPM & MP based

Hall Effect sensors provide velocity and position input

Manifold pressure sensor range – 5-45 inHg

Operational temp range -35 to 250 F

No interval inspections

RPM range 0-3500

45mJ spark energy

Starting: Retards spark to TDC w/full spark energy
 
ariel_arielly said:
And I'd like to add this:

SPECS & DATA​

Solid State Electronics

Minimal moving parts – input shaft, two sealed bearing, and oil seal

Wasted Spark system

Aviation spark plugs – gapped .022 to .035

Slick style harness – Shielded aviation harness

Input voltage 8.5-30.0 VDC*

Avg. Current @2700 600mA (4 Cyl.), 1.1A ( 6 cyl.)
Up to 38 degrees Ignition advance – RPM & MP based

Hall Effect sensors provide velocity and position input

Manifold pressure sensor range – 5-45 inHg

Operational temp range -35 to 250 F

No interval inspections

RPM range 0-3500

45mJ spark energy

Starting: Retards spark to TDC w/full spark energy
Click to expand...
Glad they provide reliable data. Guessing they are using a bit smaller of a coil than what I have seen or used - mostly auto stuff. Makes sense given the form factor.
 
ariel_arielly said:
Hi. This text will answer your questions (received from Lycoming) . Read the technical material:
Our most popular option that customers choose for the factory non-certified Vans engines would be the E Mag which is a self powering electronic ignition with variable timing and uses automotive style spark plugs. Lycoming produces the EIS which is a fixed timing electronic ignition which is designed to replace a Slick magneto using the same harness and spark plugs. The EIS is manufactured in partnership with Surefly who produces their own version which would be another option if you would like their version which is capable of variable timing.



LYCOMING EIS

www.lycoming.com www.lycoming.com

emagair.com

Home - E-MAG Electronic Ignition

introducing e-mag
emagair.com emagair.com

www.surefly.net

Aircraft Electronic Ignition | SureFly

Replace your old aircraft magneto with an electronic ignition from SureFly. Save fuel and reduce maintenance costs.
www.surefly.net www.surefly.net
Click to expand...
Nice links but keep in mind PMag (by Emag now Hartzell) is the only self powered EI.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top