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upgrading panel

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Kmdpilot

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In the research phase and keep getting drawn in by the RV12IS. Question on the panel. If I choose the basic Garmin panel, could I install an upgrade at a later time like a second G3 and Garmin 175 GPS without killing the E-LSA since I probably wont be buying them from Vans?
 
Kmdpilot said:
In the research phase and keep getting drawn in by the RV12IS. Question on the panel. If I choose the basic Garmin panel, could I install an upgrade at a later time like a second G3 and Garmin 175 GPS without killing the E-LSA since I probably wont be buying them from Vans?
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Once an E-LSA is certificated, you may do any modification that doesn't take it out of LSA parameters.
 
Thanks for the input. That's what I thought. I would love to eventually add the full IFR panel, but to keep initial costs down, would want to do it over time. Thanks again.
 
GPS 175 was the most cost effective option I found to upgrade the RV-12 for IFR legal approaches. Maybe switching out the radio for one with VOR capability could technically be done for less, but that's going backwards. The 175 ties into Skyview seamlessly and has minimal power draw. Lots of "relatively" low cost b/u attitude indicator options. I went with the Dynon D3 for <$1,000.

https://youtu.be/kpUzCfVtjW4
 
PilotBrent said:
GPS 175 was the most cost effective option I found to upgrade the RV-12 for IFR legal approaches. Maybe switching out the radio for one with VOR capability could technically be done for less, but that's going backwards. The 175 ties into Skyview seamlessly and has minimal power draw. Lots of "relatively" low cost b/u attitude indicator options. I went with the Dynon D3 for <$1,000.

https://youtu.be/kpUzCfVtjW4
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Thats exactly what I was thinking. Not sure why Vans insists on only offering an IFR panel with the 650. Sure its nice, but very spendy.
 
PilotBrent said:
GPS 175 was the most cost effective option I found to upgrade the RV-12 for IFR legal approaches. Maybe switching out the radio for one with VOR capability could technically be done for less, but that's going backwards. The 175 ties into Skyview seamlessly and has minimal power draw. Lots of "relatively" low cost b/u attitude indicator options. I went with the Dynon D3 for <$1,000.

https://youtu.be/kpUzCfVtjW4
Click to expand...

Nice video, and a great option for me also. I Can put off another huge chunk of $ until after getting the initial Certification as E-LSA, flying a while, and deciding later.

Thanks
 
FlyingDiver said:
The 175 probably wouldn't work for a trainer since there's no NAV radio.
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That's correct. DPE asks that both precision and non-precision approaches be demonstrated. So you effectively need an ILS capable panel for the check ride as that would be the only way to perform a precision approach (almost every LPV approach has an altitude at least as low as the ILS for the same runway, but FAA doesn't accept them as "precision"). I mostly trained in a rental cessna 172 for that reason. Even the examiner realized that I'd probably never fly an ILS or VOR approach ever again. Those are the current requirements.
 
I'm just in the initial build phases of my 12iS (waiting on wing kit now), but I've already had a conversation with SteinAir about adding the GPS-175 after it's complete. Did you also add a heated pitot? For my use case, it's not really needed. I live in South Florida, and only plan on flying IFR to get through the marine layer here.
 
If you want to fly within IMC condition with an IFR panel then you will need to certify your aircraft under E-AB. ELSA may operate in the system but may not actually fly in IMC.
 
FlyingDiver said:
Not true. There are multiple threads on the subject at VAF and other places.

Such as this one: https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=200702
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One should check their E-LSA operating limitations assigned to their aircraft. Mine allow it, but I've heard of different situations.

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(11) After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 14 CFR § 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR day only.

(20) The pilot in command of this aircraft must notify air traffic control of the experimental nature of this aircraft when operating into or out of airports with an operational control tower. When filing IFR, the experimental nature of this aircraft must be listed in the remarks section of the flight plan.
 
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PilotBrent said:
One should check their E-LSA operating limitations assigned to their aircraft. Mine allow it, but I've heard of different situations.
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I'm pretty sure Mel said in one of the threads that if the Op Lims don't allow it, that's a mistake and they should be re-issued.
 
FlyingDiver said:
I'm just in the initial build phases of my 12iS (waiting on wing kit now), but I've already had a conversation with SteinAir about adding the GPS-175 after it's complete. Did you also add a heated pitot? For my use case, it's not really needed. I live in South Florida, and only plan on flying IFR to get through the marine layer here.
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I did not add a heated pitot tube, so I am/will not fly anywhere close to freezing conditions in IMC. Have seen others add a heated Dynon pitot tube on the RV12 wing as an option. Haven't gone down that road partly because I'm just not interested in flying in winter, freezing IMC weather in a LSA. We all have limits.
 
FlyingDiver said:
I'm pretty sure Mel said in one of the threads that if the Op Lims don't allow it, that's a mistake and they should be re-issued.
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I had also understood that S-LSA aircraft cannot fly in actual IMC weather under IFR, as ASTM had inserted that limitation in their rules which govern those aircraft. They can train as an IFR equipped aircraft but surprisingly would not be able to legally operate in IMC. Seems odd. Option then would be to convert the S-LSA into an E-LSA which I have heard is done more than you think.
 
PilotBrent said:
I had also understood that S-LSA aircraft cannot fly in actual IMC weather under IFR, as ASTM had inserted that limitation in their rules which govern those aircraft. They can train as an IFR equipped aircraft but surprisingly would not be able to legally operate in IMC. Seems odd. Option then would be to convert the S-LSA into an E-LSA which I have heard is done more than you think.
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One of the EAA Webinars in the last couple months was by a guy that runs a flight school using RV-12s, and he discussed that issue. Not hard to do, but VERY hard (if not impossible) to go back. Requires the original manufacturer of the SLSA (Vans, in this case) to certify the plane.

Of course, once it's changed to E-LSA, it can't use used in a flight school situation.
 
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