SNF cleanup costs

[6 Gun]

post

Thank you Ron that was spot on.

 

[rocketbob]

A friend of mine sent me this article this morning:

http://www.flyingmag.com/news/sun-n-fun-tornado-bills-stir-anger

And I also researched some of the towing laws in Florida. Not a lawyer but FL Statute 327.02 and 715.07 do not apply to aircraft, and therefore my aircraft should not have been moved without my permission...at least thats my take (again not an attorney). I also understand that even if the statutes applied I have a right to specify the towing company.

Maybe a FL attorney could comment.

 

[Geico266]

A friend of mine sent me this article this morning:

http://www.flyingmag.com/news/sun-n-fun-tornado-bills-stir-anger
And I also research some of the towing laws in Florida. Not a lawyer but FL Statute 327.02 and 715.07 do not apply to aircraft, and therefore my aircraft should not have been moved without my permission. I also understand that even if the statutes applied I have a right to specify the towing company.

Maybe a FL attorney could comment.

Send them a bill for moving your plane and for the missing fuel.

 

[Rivethead]

This wont make me popular. But

If you throw that bill in the trash, and then it ends up in collections, then what? What about when that bill collector files suit?

I'd write my own response letter to SnF for detail and justification in response, but if you don't really know what you are doing, it is better to have someone who does (like a lawyer) write it for you... And given proper accounting, I might very well pay that bill too, but I wouldn't just roll over -- or leave myself open to needless liability.

I think the justification is that nobody got hurt trying to move their aircraft. It's all just fine to complain about being kept out of the airport while others were moving your aircraft. What about all the things that could happen that didn't happen. What would you be saying now if for instance someones fuel tank exploded because say of a static discharge or even a spark from a battery cable. What if people, spectators for instance, because of that fire were burned to death and others maimed for life. I can see the posts now, "They should have gotten everybody out of there immediately then this horrible thing would never have happened". Not to mention the legal bills. If something like that had happened you can bet SNF wouldn't be the only one being sued. The resultant settlement would make $2500 look like a drop in the ocean.

 

[Flybuddy2]

Here's a copy of a email newsletter sent to warbird members:

1. Free fuel fill-up upon arrival. Fuel chit in Welcome package.

2. Additional free fill if participating in the SUN ’n FUN airshow.

3. Admission to Airshow Performers’ Tent (includes daily lunch).

4. Admission to Airshow Performers’ Party on Saturday night.

5. Free transportation to/from hotels in local area.

6. Specialty Aircraft can receive an upgraded Hospitality package
with consideration on a one-on-one basis.


7. Weekly wristbands will be provided for the following types of aircraft in Warbird colors:

Bombers – 9 wristbands
Transports – 7 wristbands
Fighters/Jets – 6 wristbands
Trainers/Liaison – 3 wristbands

8. Pre-register and receive two (2) extra weekly wristbands. This will be coordinated with the Commemorative Air Force, EAA Warbirds of America, and Valiant Air Command.

9. Arrive with legitimate USMC aircraft and receive four (4) additional wristbands.


“Lites” Leenhouts put the word out at the Commemorative Air Force Airshow and Wayne Boggs will be extending the message to the EAA Warbirds of America.

Please contact Wayne Boggs at 863-644-2431 or [email protected] for more information.

It amazes me how someone flys in with a homebuilt that took them a decade to build with possibly hundreds of thousands in it, wins an award, and doesn't get so much as a free pass. But show up in a cheap old military trainer and get multiple passes and free gas. it's also apparent via this thread that Sun-N-Fun pretty much takes ownership of your plane while there while dodging responsibility.

 

[Flyfalcons]

SnF does not have the right to not lose money if their insurance coverage was inadequate for the event.

 

[Snowflake]

It amazes me how someone flys in with a homebuilt that took them a decade to build with possibly hundreds of thousands in it, wins an award, and doesn't get so much as a free pass. But show up in a cheap old military trainer and get multiple passes and free gas.

Well, the Nigerian Air Force did use RV-6A's... I wonder if someone showed up in a -6A painted like one of their trainers, if they could get into the Warbird area, or if they would be laughed off the airport...

 

[Mel]

IIFC....

I believe this actually happened a few years ago at Oshkosh.
As I remember, they reluctantly allowed him to stay.
I think they were labeled as RV-6Ts

 

[L.Adamson]

Here's a copy of a email newsletter sent to warbird members:



It amazes me how someone flys in with a homebuilt that took them a decade to build with possibly hundreds of thousands in it, wins an award, and doesn't get so much as a free pass. But show up in a cheap old military trainer and get multiple passes and free gas. it's also apparent via this thread that Sun-N-Fun pretty much takes ownership of your plane while there while dodging responsibility.

I guess you could always show up in piece of garbage RV too. Heard there was one of them LOE a couple of years ago. However, it's not the norm.

Other that, most warbirds are far from cheap. Very expensive to re-build, and extremely expensive to fly and maintain.

RV's get comps, once and a while too. Out of town, Young Eagle flights are an example. In my opinion, our paltry little planes, don't even compare to what it takes to get into a warbird. As you can tell...............I favor warbirds. But as I heard on the AOPA forum..., since I painted my RV like a warbird, I guess I'm a "wanna-be"..

L.Adamson

 

[6 Gun]

SnF

does anyone know how much you make if your on SNF board of dir.

 

[Flybuddy2]

I guess you could always show up in piece of garbage RV too. Heard there was one of them LOE a couple of years ago. However, it's not the norm.

Other that, most warbirds are far from cheap. Very expensive to re-build, and extremely expensive to fly and maintain.

RV's get comps, once and a while too. Out of town, Young Eagle flights are an example. In my opinion, our paltry little planes, don't even compare to what it takes to get into a warbird. As you can tell...............I favor warbirds. But as I heard on the AOPA forum..., since I painted my RV like a warbird, I guess I'm a "wanna-be"..

L.Adamson

I had several buddies locally who were warbird wanabees. A lot of the O and L aircraft are a lot less expensive than RVs. Some less than 20K. So what if someone shows up in a junky RV--he doesn't get anything for that (other than derision). Show up in a "military" Aeronca, T craft, piper L and you get multiple free gas and several passes. Not logical.

 

[L.Adamson]

I had several buddies locally who were warbird wanabees. A lot of the O and L aircraft are a lot less expensive than RVs. Some less than 20K. So what if someone shows up in a junky RV--he doesn't get anything for that (other than derision). Show up in a "military" Aeronca, T craft, piper L and you get multiple free gas and several passes. Not logical.

On the other hand, you're using the bottom line examples of warbirds. Warbirds can attract crowds. Put up a poster with vintage WWII warbirds and bombers, and you'll attract a crowd. This is what makes these airshow events possible. I know, because I've worked with these events. Put up a poster, of a few RV's, and that's what you'll get..................just a few dozen people who admire RV's and other small GA airplanes. In other words, the casual fly-in event. In order to attract, the main event, you offer the spiffs. That's all there is to it. In the greater scheme of things, it's not illogical at all.

L.Adamson

 

[Flybuddy2]

I've worked the shows also. No one shows up to look at an L-19 or an O-2 (other than a few warbird wannabees). I fully agree with you on fighters and bombers, vintage or modern and I agree that they attract crowds and are worthwhile. The reason I point to the low end is that even the lowest of low warbirds get free gas and many free passes while the highest of high in the experimental group gets diddly. It makes no sense.
That said, IMO, it would make sense for Sun-N-Fun to offer even more to REAL warbirds and nada to the low end (which will show up anyway). However, given their unwise decisions, they will be hurting even more with EAB attendance. They should market toward this and even certifieds to a lesser degree. Something as simple as an apology letter to last years attendees for all of the problems. Promise of a free shirt, hat and armband for the pilot. It wouldn't take much. They are making a huge mistake of trying to simply increase gate. Long term this is a bad move as they are working toward attracting non aviators. They don't buy from the aviation vendors. As they continue to gouge the vendors who also see reduced sales, it's not long before the vendors depart. Exact scenario is what killed the Reading Airshow. Sun-N-Fun has always been a trade show first and foremost. This is a situation where they CAN have their cake and eat it. They can do standard airshows for the general public at times other than Sun-N-Fun by double utilizing the grounds which will help with firmer financial footing. Their current trend is not promising and they are on a significant decline if they don't change their business model.

 

[Sam Staton]

Guardedly hopeful

Last Saturday, at our chapter meeting, the Pres had some things to say about the future of SNF. Since he knows Leenhouts personally, I put a lot of credence in what he said. Apparently, the leadership is well aware of the drop off in attendance (don't see how they could miss it!) and are very concerned - that is why the change in leadership. The previous CEO wasn't an aviator! Leenhouts is apparently dedicated to a revival of the roots of the show. As has been mentioned before, the crowds come out to see the big formation teams and the warbirds. We're not going to be able to avoid that - not even sure we should want to. However, Lites has given the indication that he recognizes the need for some recognition of the homebuilts/amateur built pilots. We shall see - I am willing to give it one more chance.

 

[pierre smith]

Yep.

..... We shall see - I am willing to give it one more chance.

Me too. It' still a great time to peruse the line and introduce yourself to the many other RV attendees and homebuilders of all sorts.....a close-up and personal look at Americana!

Best,

 

[DanH]

The reason I point to the low end is that even the lowest of low warbirds get free gas and many free passes while the highest of high in the experimental group gets diddly.

I took my lowly L-4 to S&F about 15 years ago. Yes, they offered gas if I would fly in the afternoon show (not merely display), but you can't accept anything without a commercial license (your friendly FAA's ruling).

The warbird flightline chief gave me holy **** for riding a bicycle to the warbird HQ one morning at 7:30. It was parked among the rental cars. Think about it.

 

[Bullseye]

This sounds like Triple Tree.

+1 for Triple Tree.

 

[Jaypratt]

issues

SNF has left me with issues for a # of reasons. I would be really ticked off had I gotten my plane moved too.
I love the War Birds and will go just to see that. New 777's , transport, and new Jet Fighters,,, not so much..

I had a security 'shirt' jump me for droping a bread crum in the grass. I was feeding the birds, and ants.
SNF gives me heart burn.
Yes Triple Tree.!!

 

[DEWATSON]

size

It's just like everything else in America.......the bigger it is, the more regulated it becomes, the less fun it is.

 

[L.Adamson]

It's just like everything else in America.......the bigger it is, the more regulated it becomes, the less fun it is.

But.........I like Oshkosh (AirVenture), the Grand Canyon, and Disneyland. It can't be all bad..

L.Adamson --- RV6