Seeking opinions/advice. looking to upgrade my panel but in a hybrid cost-effective way

[tom paul]

Greetings to the esteemed VAF Brain Trust!
An in-op oil temp gauge while flying the other day has made me realize that perhaps it is time for some panel upgrades. Sorry for the long post, but if you have the time, I would love to get some opinions here.
I love my old-school panel in some ways, but there are definitely some important things lacking. The time has come to add some desired functionality and I am seeking thoughts on the best way to do it. I have a largely "steam" panel, with the exception of a G5, which is configured only as an HSI, a Tru track Gemini autopilot, coupled to my portable Garmin Aera 660. ADSB is handled by a uAvionix tail beacon, which is linked to the Aera. Attached are some pictures of my panel. Not shown is an iPad mini running Foreflight, fed by a Sentry Plus for alt/back-up traffic.

What I am lacking and I want are the following:
~4 channel EGT and CHT (i currently have two CHT and 1 EGT indicators)
~Fuel Flow
~Data port for Savvy analysis
~AOA indicator (there is currently no stall horn, no differential pitot) I feel like I keep the speed up more than I need to in the pattern to err of the side of safety in a sometimes steep base to final in my 700' agl "under the class B" pattern altitude at KLDJ.

I don't have $40k to drop on a new panel right now, but I want to get these upgrades in place asap, so I am considering a hybrid approach, with new glass to incorporate the new stuff that I want, but keeping my ADSB and my autopilot. (if it ain't broke...) If I did have the cash to spend, sure, it would be great to have a new dual 10" IFR panel with an integrated autopilot, multi-channel radio and all the other goodies that new installations have, but that cash is not available right now, so I am looking at some hybrid options, perhaps adding a 7" display with an EIS module and AOA, and positioning it to replace my current six pack of EGT, CHT, Fuel pressure and levels.

I should add that part of this comes from wanting the added functionality, and part of it comes from a handful of my gauges being quite flaky right now. Both fuel level indicators are inconsistent, and usually need either the master cycled or an old-school tap on the gauge to bring it to life. Often a master cycle will bring one fuel gauge back to life while at the same time killing the other. The EGT is occasionally sitting at zero, and the ammeter is jiggling all over the place sometimes. The straw that broke the camel's back though: The other day the oil temp went to the bottom pin while flying, only to come back to life upon a hasty landing. Me needing to tap on a fuel level gauge to make it work does not inspire confidence in my passengers! Also, this is a 1200 hour engine, which is running very strong, but I want to enlist the Savvy system to help track its health.

Before I became interested in an AOA (Thanks Paul Dye! @Ironflight) I was considering an EDM350 and a red cube, but since I now want AOA, I am thinking maybe a Dynon Skyview or Garmin G3x 7" with an integrated engine monitor would be a more efficient choice.
My questions are:
What do I replace and remove? I do like my steam tach, MP, Alt and airspeed, so I was thinking of leaving those and replacing the EGT, CHT and Fuel info on the right side, knowing that I would have redundancy in the aforementioned gauges once I had the EFIS installed. I am probably going to end up with a new GPS as part of the package, and I am not upset about a larger view of traffic on the panel, as opposed to my little Aera 660 (which I am quite happy with btw). One concern is where to put the new glass. If I replace the engine temps and fuel, that opens up space on the right side of the panel for a 7" landscape, which is fine for EMS, (EIS?) but less great for GPS and AOA. I could get a remote AOA indicator to stick on top of the dash. My radio is OK. Not sexy and I can't monitor the standby freq, so. better radio (remote?) wouldn't be a bad thing.
There is no issue with the transponder, so I can't justify the expense of replacing that. Regarding IFR, I am not an IFR pilot, though I am considering opening up my ownership to some partners, so perhaps equipping the plane for IFR would be prudent to attract more people. Perhaps there is a WAAS only way to do this economically.
Again, this is a long post, and a big ask, but if this is fun for any of you, please do let me know your thoughts and ask me any questions about info I have left out.
Thanks in advance!!
Tom

 

[RVbySDI]

I have built several panels for various individuals in the past. I have a pretty good idea what it takes to do what you are describing. However, I am going to ask you to send me a private message or you can call me, if you prefer to talk in person, to discuss in more detail. My number (for oh fife 8 two too zero 6 twenty one).

What you have described wanting is kind of in direct contradiction to your not being able to spend “$40K”. It may not cost that much but to get what you are asking about will still cost quite a bit. There are ways to pare down the costs and get most of what you want but, depending on the decisions made, may not be able to go the Garmin or the Dynon route.

Integrating Garmin or Dynon displays to incorporate engine monitoring, ADS-B, comm panels/radios, auto pilots, AOA, does involve quite a bit of added hardware and major surgery no matter which brands or types of instruments you choose.

As I stated at the beginning, I am happy to discuss with you if you wish. Drop me a note or call me anytime.

 

[71459]

What kind of flying do you do? If you're like me, it's very rare to even go on a cross country. Short, close-in flights, just for fun. Here's a different mindset.. less is more. It's a different kind of challenge, and a lot more fun. Get rid of all the extra gauges and gadgets you never use and never needed anyway. Lighten and simplify. I'm going to guess Van would smile at the idea..

 

[rv6agrbk]

Greetings to the esteemed VAF Brain Trust!
An in-op oil temp gauge while flying the other day has made me realize that perhaps it is time for some panel upgrades. Sorry for the long post, but if you have the time, I would love to get some opinions here.
I love my old-school panel in some ways, but there are definitely some important things lacking. The time has come to add some desired functionality and I am seeking thoughts on the best way to do it. I have a largely "steam" panel, with the exception of a G5, which is configured only as an HSI, a Tru track Gemini autopilot, coupled to my portable Garmin Aera 660. ADSB is handled by a uAvionix tail beacon, which is linked to the Aera. Attached are some pictures of my panel. Not shown is an iPad mini running Foreflight, fed by a Sentry Plus for alt/back-up traffic.

What I am lacking and I want are the following:
~4 channel EGT and CHT (i currently have two CHT and 1 EGT indicators)
~Fuel Flow
~Data port for Savvy analysis
~AOA indicator (there is currently no stall horn, no differential pitot) I feel like I keep the speed up more than I need to in the pattern to err of the side of safety in a sometimes steep base to final in my 700' agl "under the class B" pattern altitude at KLDJ.

I don't have $40k to drop on a new panel right now, but I want to get these upgrades in place asap, so I am considering a hybrid approach, with new glass to incorporate the new stuff that I want, but keeping my ADSB and my autopilot. (if it ain't broke...) If I did have the cash to spend, sure, it would be great to have a new dual 10" IFR panel with an integrated autopilot, multi-channel radio and all the other goodies that new installations have, but that cash is not available right now, so I am looking at some hybrid options, perhaps adding a 7" display with an EIS module and AOA, and positioning it to replace my current six pack of EGT, CHT, Fuel pressure and levels.

I should add that part of this comes from wanting the added functionality, and part of it comes from a handful of my gauges being quite flaky right now. Both fuel level indicators are inconsistent, and usually need either the master cycled or an old-school tap on the gauge to bring it to life. Often a master cycle will bring one fuel gauge back to life while at the same time killing the other. The EGT is occasionally sitting at zero, and the ammeter is jiggling all over the place sometimes. The straw that broke the camel's back though: The other day the oil temp went to the bottom pin while flying, only to come back to life upon a hasty landing. Me needing to tap on a fuel level gauge to make it work does not inspire confidence in my passengers! Also, this is a 1200 hour engine, which is running very strong, but I want to enlist the Savvy system to help track its health.

Before I became interested in an AOA (Thanks Paul Dye! @Ironflight) I was considering an EDM350 and a red cube, but since I now want AOA, I am thinking maybe a Dynon Skyview or Garmin G3x 7" with an integrated engine monitor would be a more efficient choice.
My questions are:
What do I replace and remove? I do like my steam tach, MP, Alt and airspeed, so I was thinking of leaving those and replacing the EGT, CHT and Fuel info on the right side, knowing that I would have redundancy in the aforementioned gauges once I had the EFIS installed. I am probably going to end up with a new GPS as part of the package, and I am not upset about a larger view of traffic on the panel, as opposed to my little Aera 660 (which I am quite happy with btw). One concern is where to put the new glass. If I replace the engine temps and fuel, that opens up space on the right side of the panel for a 7" landscape, which is fine for EMS, (EIS?) but less great for GPS and AOA. I could get a remote AOA indicator to stick on top of the dash. My radio is OK. Not sexy and I can't monitor the standby freq, so. better radio (remote?) wouldn't be a bad thing.
There is no issue with the transponder, so I can't justify the expense of replacing that. Regarding IFR, I am not an IFR pilot, though I am considering opening up my ownership to some partners, so perhaps equipping the plane for IFR would be prudent to attract more people. Perhaps there is a WAAS only way to do this economically.
Again, this is a long post, and a big ask, but if this is fun for any of you, please do let me know your thoughts and ask me any questions about info I have left out.
Thanks in advance!!
Tom

I’m not sure if this is what you are looking for but I have gone through a couple of up grades over the years and am happy where I wound up. I built my 6a with a standard six pack, RMI engine monitor, King 97a radio, and King KT76a transponder. Several years ago I replaced the gyros with a Dynon D10A EFIS. This left an opening below the Dynon where the DG used to be. The next upgrade was to replace the transponder with a Stratus ESG for ADSB in/out. The in information is displayed on an iPad with ForeFlight. I really wanted another radio or a radio that I could monitor a second frequency, plus was starting to see some periodic errors on the engine monitor. A few months ago, I replaced the RMI monitor with an EI CGR30P in the old DG spot. This freed up some room above my current radio to put a PS engineering PAR200B audio panel/ radio so now I can monitor three frequencies. An added benefit is a much better intercom than my old Sigtronics.

 

[edhunter]

I’m just finishing a panel replacement in a Glastar, going full Monty dual screen AFS, Dynon dual comms, etc. But I recently bought a single seat Panther, it’ll be a vfr only fun plane. Like yours it has very basic instrumentation that does not work well. I’m planning an older glass setup that doesn’t require a lot of external devices. It’ll have a dynon d10ems to handle engine fuel flow via red cube, fuel level, egt/cht, rpm, pressures, etc. I’ll put in either a dynon d10a for EFIS and AOA or a d100, a garmin 660, a garmin gdl52 for adsb in, a garmin gdl82 for adsb out, and maybe an older autopilot (I liked the Gemini I had). I picked up a complete, new in box d10ems for 850 w sensor suite, paid 200 for red cube, had the gdl82 in plane already, paid 550 for the aera660, paid 200 for the gdl52 to provide adsb to the 660 and an iPad running FF, just need a d10 or d100 to complete the dash. All in should give me everything I want for less than 4k (w/o autopilot). I’ll modify my current pitot to give me aoa similar to photo. I’ve already got a garmin comm radio and small trig transponder. Not much real estate on a panther panel, think rv3 size!

 

[Radioflyer]

I believe that you don’t really need to spend very much at all to meet your goals. This is true especially if you do your own work and buy second hand equipment. A GRT EIS can be had used for $400 to 500 to get your 4 channel cht/egt and a serial line can download engine data to a laptop. A Dynon D10 EMS has a nicer display. Either of those plus the fuel flow sensor…~ $1k.
Overall, if your budget allows, imho a new modern GRT SportEX + used GRT EIS4000 will do everything you want for around $4k, and you can add the missing engine sensors after that.

 

[Dugaru]

a new modern GRT SportEX + used GRT EIS4000 will do everything you want for around $4k

That combo really is a ton of bang for the buck, and it’s basically what we’ve gone with on our Zenith 801 project (we’re actually using the GRT Gen 2 Mini for even greater cost savings). The EIS4000 continues to deliver value in glorious monochrome, and of course can drive nice color graphics elsewhere, including on the Mini.

 

[tom paul]

What kind of flying do you do? If you're like me, it's very rare to even go on a cross country. Short, close-in flights, just for fun. Here's a different mindset.. less is more. It's a different kind of challenge, and a lot more fun. Get rid of all the extra gauges and gadgets you never use and never needed anyway. Lighten and simplify. I'm going to guess Van would smile at the idea..

Hi. I do short cross countries and simple pleasure flights mostly. The longest x country I routinely do is about 90 minutes of flying. I love your approach, and if I flew out of a strip in the middle of farmland, I would be comfortable with it. The reason I want the extra information is for safety. My home base is in the middle of terrain very inhospitable to an emergency landing, so I want to be able to monitor the health trajectory of my engine.