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RV Aerobatic Instruction Wanted NY/NJ area

tom paul

tom paul

Active Member
I have an RV7A with an IO360 and a constant speed prop. I am comfortable doing rolls and wingovers and I did receive some instruction in loops, and have done them solo, but not great ones. I would like to fly with someone experienced in aerobatics in RVs to teach me safe, gentle maneuvers in my plane, such as loops and hammerheads. The plane is just out of annual. All SBs complied with. No cracks found!
Based at KLDJ. Happy to pay for instruction of course.
 
Join the IAC

Here is the contact information for the closest IAC chapter. Most chapters have practice days where you can find what you are looking for. Good luck.

IAC 52
Suffern, NY
President: John Fellenzer
Contact: 845-978-0511 | [email protected]
Meetings: Every Last Sunday TBA
Meeting Location: Ocean County Airport - KMJX
101 Airport Rd
Bayville NJ 08721

Website: IAC52.org
 
FWIW, while you're looking for an aerobatics instructor ...

Although this is for the -8/8A, the -7/7A Construction Manual may say the same thing given the airplane's similarities:

From the RV-8/8A Construction Manual:
"Aerobatic Entry Speeds: Refer to the section on maneuvering speed when contemplating aerobatics. Remember
that the maneuvering speed is defined as the highest speed at which full and abrupt controls can be applied without
exceeding the design strength of the airplane. This does not mean that it is the highest permissible aerobatic entry
speed. It just means that for any speed above the maneuvering speed, control inputs must be limited to less than full—and less than that needed to produce 6 Gs. Because of the wide speed range (top speed/stall speed) of the RVs, entry speeds for some maneuvers can also vary over a considerable range. For vertical maneuvers like loops, Immelman turns, and horizontal eights, the entry speeds have an inverse relationship to the Gs required to complete the maneuver. An entry speed near the low end of the speed range will require a higher G pull-up than for an entry speed near the top of the speed range. The entry speeds listed below are presented as general guidelines, as starting points for aerobatic testing. Differing airframe weights, engines, propellers, and pilot preferences will determine the ideal entry speeds. "

  • Loops, Horizontal Eights: 140-190 mph.
  • Immelman Turns: 150-190 mph
  • Aileron Rolls, Barrel rolls: 120-190 mph
  • Snap Rolls: 80-110 mph
  • Vertical Rolls: 180-190 mph
  • Split-S: 100-110 mph
Note: All speeds are statute mph.

Please note that the recommended entry speeds for snap rolls are relatively low. One definition of a snap roll is that it is an accelerated stall with heavy yaw input. Because the RVs have good stall characteristics and good spin resistance, they also resist easy snap roll entry. Entered at speeds below 100 mph, snaps tend to be slow and wallowing. At above 100 mph, high G loads are required. For this reason, most RV pilots avoid snap rolls and concentrate on looping and rolling maneuvers more suited to the performance and handling qualities of these planes."​
Some articles on RV aerobatics:

An article by Van himself, "An Aerobatic Epistle":



Another article by Van himself on competition aerobatics, "IAC Aerobatics in RVs". It includes a good addendum on preparing your RV for aerobatics by Ron Schreck:



An article by Budd Davisson:



And note the "Aerobatics" section on Van's website:

 
Don't worry so much about RV specific training

I did aerobatic training in a Super Decathlon that had spades and was surprised at how similar it handled to my RV-6. I wouldn't limit your self to worrying about instruction in your plane as much as getting quality instruction to handle a botched maneuver.
 
b_raf said:
I did aerobatic training in a Super Decathlon that had spades and was surprised at how similar it handled to my RV-6. I wouldn't limit your self to worrying about instruction in your plane as much as getting quality instruction to handle a botched maneuver.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. If you go that route, you can do aerobatic training in a Stearman or a Chipmunk at Aeroflex-Andover. That's where I'm doing my tailwheel endorsement, in a 1958 Super Cub. I bet if you can do aerobatics well in those planes then you will have an easy time transitioning to your RV.

If do you find someone in the NYC area that does RV based instruction please let me know because I'd probably be interested in that as well.
 
Pitts

Thats the one. The mechanic is allegedly going to be the instructor. Hope it works out. That will probably be the only Pitts instruction in the NE.
 
I wouldn't recommend using an RV as an aerobatic instructor platform. With 2 on board, with chutes, you will be pushing the aerobatic maximum gross weight. RV's are very slippery and will rapidly accelerate. When first flying aerobatics in an RV, you can easily find yourself in a botched maneuver approaching VNE where a rapid pull will exceed max Gs.

We all learn most by our mistakes and there are plenty of good ways to screw up. A poorly executed Hammerhead can quickly turn into an inverted spin. A higher than normal Split-S entry speed can result in a rapid loss of altitude. It doesn't take much to screw up a maneuver and quickly pass Va

You want to find a good instructor with a draggy airplane and take a basic course in aerobatics. A slower, less slippery platform will allow you to botch all maneuvers and give you the time to recover. This will provide you with a margin of error to learn and build your confidence handling an airplane in all attitudes. It will also be more fun. Once you learn the basics, you can transition to your RV.

Enjoy the ride!
 
drill_and_buck said:
I wouldn't recommend using an RV as an aerobatic instructor platform. With 2 on board, with chutes, you will be pushing the aerobatic maximum gross weight. RV's are very slippery and will rapidly accelerate. When first flying aerobatics in an RV, you can easily find yourself in a botched maneuver approaching VNE where a rapid pull will exceed max Gs.

We all learn most by our mistakes and there are plenty of good ways to screw up. A poorly executed Hammerhead can quickly turn into an inverted spin. A higher than normal Split-S entry speed can result in a rapid loss of altitude. It doesn't take much to screw up a maneuver and quickly pass Va

You want to find a good instructor with a draggy airplane and take a basic course in aerobatics. A slower, less slippery platform will allow you to botch all maneuvers and give you the time to recover. This will provide you with a margin of error to learn and build your confidence handling an airplane in all attitudes. It will also be more fun. Once you learn the basics, you can transition to your RV.

Enjoy the ride!
Click to expand...

Agree with all of this
 
Contest next weekend

IAC Chapter 35 is having their contest 14-16 July in Vermont.
https://iac35.aerobaticsweb.org/GMAC2023.html
This would be a great time for you to meet aerobatic pilots from all over the Northeast, a great bunch of people. If Jason is not flying a show that weekend, he will likely be there. If he is unable to help out, there is certainly someone there that can!

I won't be competing but I hope to get up for a day
 
N733JJ said:
IAC Chapter 35 is having their contest 14-16 July in Vermont.
https://iac35.aerobaticsweb.org/GMAC2023.html
This would be a great time for you to meet aerobatic pilots from all over the Northeast, a great bunch of people. If Jason is not flying a show that weekend, he will likely be there. If he is unable to help out, there is certainly someone there that can!

I won't be competing but I hope to get up for a day
Click to expand...

Hey Scott! I’ll be there in the Extra competing in Intermediate. See you soon!
 
Also check IAC chapter 58. When I lived in NJ they had more practice days then 52.

Easiest you can do is show up to one of those practice days and talk to the people there. They got all the local knowledge.. .

After you are safe to fly coaching is done with your coach watching from the ground so your RV will be perfect (no acro weight/cg issue)… . So all the instructions in airplane you need is to get safe.

Oliver
 
RV-8 Aerobatics

I am nowhere as competent as Ron Schreck or Bill McLean (RV-4) in RV-8 aerobatics. I fly aerobatics three, four times a week in my RV-8, but previously gave hundreds of hours of aerobatic instruction in my Super D. The Super D is a very appropriate start to performing aerobatics in the RV. But as others have cautioned and very wisely, the RV-8 is NOT a two person aerobatic aircraft.
Nose low inverted, the 8 builds speed at an alarming rate. It spins as competently as a Decathlon, and flies the sportsman maneuvers quite well…the main limitation being the competency of the pilot.
Get a lot of Super Decathlon instruction before attempting the RV-8.
My 8 has a full Raven inverted system. No two 8’s are the same, but based on Ron Schreck’s experience, I fly with 19 pounds of ballast in the tail…having done so for over 250 hours. As Ron will attest, it makes a big difference.
It rolls like a Super D….you need sky (top) rudder to make it work well.
I also copied Ron Schreck’s aerobatic sight gauge and had an IAC judge critique me from the ground. What I perceived as vertical up or down…was not what the judge saw and I made appropriate shims until he was satisfied.
 
More...

Dave has the right idea. None of the RV's perform aerobatics well with two persons on board. You will sacrifice fuel to stay under the aerobatic gross weight or have an aft CG out of the aerobatic limits in tandem mounts. IAC competition is done solo except for some instances when a non-flying safety pilot is aboard. And let's not forget the parachute requirement in all IAC competition and the FAA requirement that both occupants wear chutes when flying dual. The best aerobatic instruction is via a coach on the ground. He is the best judge of a truly round loop, a true vertical or 45 degree line and you best safety observer. Dave is right about the lead in the tail if you get serious about RV aerobatics. I found the most comfortable CG was about one inch forward of the aft aerobatic CG limit. I flew with no more than 20 gallons of fuel. With 19 pounds of lead centered between the horizontal stabilizer spars it was equivalent to a 66 pound passenger in the back seat of my -8. Perfect!

Properly equipped and flown the RVs are capable of winning in the IAC Sportsman category and once you learn snap rolls and rolling circle maneuvers you can be competitive in the Intermediate category. The RV takes a lot more pilot skill to excel in competition aerobatics because it is not a purpose-built aerobatic airplane. However, it was a pleasure to file IFR on a non-stop 400 mile trip with my wife, two chihuahuas and 40 pounds of luggage on board to attend an IAC competition. Unload and kick *** in the aerobatic box. Then, when the contest was over I filed IFR for the return trip while all other competitors waited for the weather to clear! Gotta love the RV!

A previous post in this thread has a link to my article about equipping your RV for aerobatics. I have to add that the one piece of equipment that I value more than all the rest is a ratcheting seat belt. With it you become one with your airplane; it being an extension of your body. Without it you are a loosely attached hunk of dead weight. I had to engineer a second attach point for the ratcheting belt but it was worth the effort. You can search the forum for a description of my solution.

I know that RV aerobatics are not something for everyone and very few RV pilots care to explore the edges of the RV flight envelope but I think doing so will make even the most experiencd pilot a safer pilot. And darn it's fun!
 
Make it?

RV8Squaz said:
Hey Scott! I’ll be there in the Extra competing in Intermediate. See you soon!
Click to expand...

Jerry, hope you made it to the contest ok afterdeck your brake issue. Any flying yesterday? Today doesn’t look so good, May be hard to get out of town.

Not going to make it up, Lots of fog here on the cape, been a IFR summer.

Scott
 
Jerry

Hope you made it to the contest, and they did fly. Jerry Esquesnazi would have gladly shared his experience and encouragement. He also finished 1st in Intermediate. Remember, he started in an RV.:D
PS Congratulations Jerry, and you're ready for the Nationals.
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
lower Alabama
 
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